Mini 2251: Triplicate! GAME OVER!

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Do you win a 1v1 endgame regardless of who is there?

Jingle just clarified that I do regardless

[Alyssa The Lamb]

UNVOTE:

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Because if you do, then we can just joint win anyways

[Titus]

My position is probably you're lying strategically and get you two to shoot each other.

[mastina]

So scum or sk win...

Honestly I'm pretty sure that mathematically the town couldn't win from the moment Dunnstral was eliminated. With two scum and a sk in 6p, the town could mathematically not eliminate all three nontown. The only way for it to happen was for the town to eliminate a scum and for a second nontown to be killed. I was under the mistaken impression I didn't have a kill and I sure as fuck wasn't going to deactivate my bulletproof, so...

I needed two scum dead in order to win but the only options from there were a scum win or a me win or a draw between scum and me which Alyssa just refused the option of.

But I will say tho that I was genuinely trying to help the town for the entirety of the game since I did need two scum dead in order to win, didn't know I had a nightkill, genuinely thought I was a shittier survivor, and if I couldn't win (which I thought for sure I wouldn't) I'd rather have had the town win than the scum win. (I genuinely was going to just concede if we eliminated 3 scum since at that point it'd have been obvious that I was lying about my benevolence.)

I legit thought initially that I had lost when RR was eliminated and flipped town and had to check why it hadn't ended in a scum win right then and there.

I will say tho that I do have genuine gripes with Jingle about the setup tho. (I was quite miffed at the wagon analyzer which genuinely forces a 3p claim.)

Can't talk much tho since I've gotta leave for a covid test.

Pedit:

VOTE: Titus
As a matter of fact, Alyssa, I do win a 1v1 endgame regardless of who is there.
I wasn't going to say as much since I thought it'd

deter

you from joint winning, but...

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Although I'm guessing you already did check that before with just outing like that

VOTE: Titus

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I misunderstood Jingle the first time

Oops

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Gg

[mastina]

Although I'm guessing you already did check that before with just outing like that

VOTE: Titus

Actually I thought it clear from my original role PM.

I lied in its condition, it technically said that I win when everyone else was dead, which I assumed meant that I'd win a 1v1 endgame given I'm bulletproof.

GGs.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Btw no town vig ever kills House there, so you had to know I was scum

[Jingle]

A win condition has been achieved!

The Mafia of Alyssa the Lamb, Amy Dunne, and Dwlee99 has won!

A win condition has become inevitable!

mastina, Steve, has won!

[Alyssa The Lamb]

As much as I'm glad that we were stressing about this setup so much for no reason, it feels kinda bad that we won because town just rolled over and died pretty much

[Jingle]

Okay, so there were a couple of unexplained mod errors to take credit for:

RCE was force replaced because he was accidentally included on a results PM that confirmed RR's role to him. That was not at all his fault, but explaining it in game would have been... Not a good thing.

The mod error with mastina was me thinking her confirmation as shitty survivor was a reference to her policy to not take vig/SK shots, not an actual misunderstanding of her role. This was actually a pretty egregious mod error, because I DID clarify roles for everyone else who confirmed improperly, specifically because I intentionally made the role PMs into nightmares of text in keeping with the bloated bureaucracy flavor. This is a rather large error, as mastina knowing she had a nightkill would probably have made very different choices.


With regard to the mastina AFK'ing through the night bit, there are many trivial ways to do what she did without actually losing any advantage as scum. Particularly, one I didn't bring up but which would work is to ask for scum PT permission on an alt, which is something I've done before for convenience sake. The public announcement about the fact that what she did is explicitly okay in my rules was largely motivated by a spectator PMing me with game integrity concerns and was not actually scum complaining.

[Jingle]

Honestly I'm pretty sure that mathematically the town couldn't win from the moment Dunnstral was eliminated.

6p was technically still winnable for town. If there was a no elim, you shot scum and scum shot you then the game becomes 3v1v1 which is entirely winnable for town. It was not, however, likely.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I think there was zero universes where I would have approved a shot on her, especially if I thought to check to see if I win in a 1v1

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Also, is this game over explicitly so I can reference it elsewhere?

[Jingle]

Setup notes:

The mini normal was a rough draft that FL passed with the information that the central mechanic was shown to be townsiding last time and I was hoping for a setup that was scumsided if it couldn't be perfectly balanced. I took the immediate pass to mean that the setup was in the realm of 50-60% scumwin, which was my goal and didn't bother looking at it again. I do think that mastina crossed the line a little bit when she said no competent member of the NRG would have passed the setup post game, since I happen to think that FL is indeed competent and that was an uncalled for insult in a place he couldn't respond or defend his thoughts. The idea behind the setup was that the town power would likely die early, but if they managed to hit scum early then the game would be prone to snowballing. For that reason, I didn't want investigatives that would produce hard results early, but I also didn't want town to have a large amount of power because they would be more likely to be able to use it without claiming.

The open was an approved open with a dayvig mechanic to let the games desync before D1. The secret alt mechanic was included because both scum and town have a reason to hunt out the secret identities of the other players and I thought it would be a fun addition to the game. I was rather disappointed, to be honest, when it became clear that not many people read/understood the intention of the secret alts being an entirely optional double edged sword, but I don't think the variant of that setup would be unrunable as a stand alone.

[Jingle]

The game is explicitly over.

[T3]

A win condition has been achieved!

The Mafia of Alyssa the Lamb, Amy Dunne, and Dwlee99 has won!

A win condition has become inevitable!

mastina, Steve, has won!

huh okay

[T3]

wow i went 0/3 that's sad

and i was wrong on rce

[Ircher]

Gg everyone. Ugh, I really wish mastina was in fact a survivor. I think this would have been different if there were extra kills. (Even if there weren't, mastina might have played differently and made it more apparent she was malevolent, but eh.) She still played well though.

[Ircher]

I liked the open setup. I think the theme makes much more sense with the knowledge that mastina was a serial killer, but that's hard to tell as the game is going especially when there weren't additional kills. I think the normal would have been balanced with the checker being town-aligned and without modifiers.

[Taly]

Lady Chloe

sent her most trusted bird to fill in for her!

*B E A K opens, a recording begins*

"Well done everyone. While I had the answers to Game A I became too fatigued to assert them in the end. The world continues to rotate. Happy Holidays.
Best,
Lady Chloe"

[Jingle]

The mini theme is a little more complicated.

Originally, the UB-ish role didn't exist, but FL was worried that town could lose all its power in 1 cycle and get roflstomped, so I added it. There were 7/12 hits for it, including every antitown role in the game. That means it only backed up CT if she died before every scum. Alyssa's scum role was informed of CT's role, which would be akin to telling the UB that there is in fact a town investigative role and pretty useless. Dwlee's role was antitown regardless of which faction controlled it, as was Dunn's in most circumstances. (Dunn could have endgamed scum in a 1v1, but that was incredibly unlikely.) The neighborizor was a nominally 0 utility role that could have had a large amount of power based on how it was played (implying there was scum in an all town neighborhood, for example, or netting towncred by targeting the whole thread and just making all voices persistent). Dunn, mastina, Alyssa, and Dwlee's roles all provided counters for the wagon analysis role. Titus was a 1 shot BP bodyguard which meant she could be killed all in one night by both the SK and the scum team targeting her and the only damning results from a single CT action would be near impossible to organize with scum knowing the role existed. (An all town wagon or the scumteam voting with precisely one town between each would both put town in autowin).

Additionally, the 2KPN made it likely that the wagon analysis role wouldn't get as many useful results because the game would be comparatively shorter. I disagree with mastina that the SK was forced to claim miller, especially considering that knowledge of the wagon analysis role highly incentivized groupscum shooting off wagon in most situations meaning a scum shooting the SK situation was less likely. (D1, the mechanically correct shot was actually CT, hilariously, because scum would expect a 1 switch result and that clears the center slot and makes a 1v1 out of the bookends, which was an objectively bad position to take on the wagon). She does have a point that I didn't give her a warning about the wagon analysis role, and in hindsight I should have provided the miller fakeclaim she asked for as a mod given fakeclaim instead of making her ask for it to get it, which would have let me imply that she shouldn't necessarily claim the BP and that there was a vote based investigative role.

Mastina's role PM also heavily implied that she shouldn't use the ascetic portion of her role (she was either ascetic or BP every night and it defaulted to BP.) Ascetic was there purely because it could be used to confirm herself as ascetic in the case that the neighborizer claimed.

The missing kill N1 was scum shooting A50 directly.

The town power in the mini theme having a neighborhood via the scum chat of the Normal was entirely random and was not something I accounted for in balance.

[Ircher]

(Also, this game isn't going on my wiki because it doesn't really fit format-wise. I would add it otherwise.)