Open 840 - Guardians of the Fortress [Game Over]

[RH9]

I checked his wiki page and my own previous research and it seems like he isn't the sort to plan it out with his teammates and I don't get the impression that his scumrange includes asking if he's being pocketed.
(Also, I'm not much of a fan of meta anymore so I'll avoid it in the future.)

[RH9]

But I would prefer more discussion before I vote again. (This time, it won't be for reactions.)

[RH9]

By the way, I actually still have troubles imaging a scumteam of Lukewarm-Baltar-implosion as suggested by imaginality. That scumteam doesn't make sense to me because Baltar and implosion haven't exactly been acting partnery.

[imaginality]

The Wall seems like a hot mess right now. (As compared to the Keep which was a Lukewarm mess lol)

I did think at the start of D2 Wall might be the easiest game to for us as a whole to get a consensus view on but eesh.

A request: Wall players ideally should state who they see as more likely scum between VP and me before they resolve Wall. I'm sure it's probably there in their isos but would be useful to be reminded.

[numberQ]

Misrep. I didn't "go back" to the fence. I've been sitting there pretty comfortably ever since I started posting again, actually. I have been pointing out posts that make me suspicious of either party. Scumreading you and then finding a post that makes me doubt that scumread isn't "keeping options open". It's a thought process. Being extra cautious and particular about that process during ELo is not scummy.

It's not a misrep, you said your gut was saying I'm scum and then two posts later you were saying actually you're on the fence. That's literally "going back" to the fence. Maybe you were misrepresenting your own thoughts with your words but I'm accurately representing your words in the order you said them.

I can have a gut read without trusting it 100%, thus still being on the fence. I don't know why you're making it out to be a binary thing like I can only be on the fence if my reads are null. That's the misrep.

By the way, I actually still have troubles imaging a scumteam of Lukewarm-Baltar-implosion as suggested by imaginality. That scumteam doesn't make sense to me because Baltar and implosion haven't exactly been acting partnery.

Has implosion been partnery with imag? Have I been partnery with Baltar or imag?

The Wall seems like a hot mess right now. (As compared to the Keep which was a Lukewarm mess lol)

I did think at the start of D2 Wall might be the easiest game to for us as a whole to get a consensus view on but eesh.

A request: Wall players ideally should state who they see as more likely scum between VP and me before they resolve Wall. I'm sure it's probably there in their isos but would be useful to be reminded.

I don't think you'll find it in my ISO lol. I'll take a look and form an opinion after my meeting.

[Tanner]

guess who's been running errands the whole day so far, and is rereading this game whenever possible? also guess who legit started having nightmares about this game? this dumbfuck

I actually doubt Pav will flip town but, as I said, IF he does it's an additional point against VP (because of how it makes the D1 location set up a more obvious play compared to a sneakier pre-planned swap).

this part of the post specifically commits the sin i talked about last night. it's actively calling pav scum, and making the connection how a pav townflip makes vp looks worse... while at the same time still not acknowledging how pav looks better if vp is scum, which from his pov etc you know what i mean

i'm up until the game 1 resolution, which means 15 pages left for when i get home

can the peeps at the wall tell me what they think about this argument i've been putting forward last night and now, k thx

[numberQ]

I'm skimming D2 and slowing down whenever I see Baltar or imag.

Spoiler: Baltar stuff

Toogeloo
- in my head I thought they were lurking but they've posted more than I remembered, probably a town point as my scumdar pings louder than my towndar
- some good questioning of Ari
- I'm doubtful of his idea that it's better not to give reads yet but doesn't seem like a stance scum would take

Looking at imaginality's wall post right now because snow and ice has canceled my dinner plans...

This read looks very fake reasons to me. Other than "some good questioning of Ari", imaginality is hand waving here by stating 'these things might be scummy, but ill actually town read Toog for them'. Which is unfortunate because I had kind of had gut town pings on Toog.

Don't like this, feels fake.

Starting my read over coffee now. Probably will take me a good part of the day since I'd like to fully read everything on D2 so far. I'll try to keep responses to a reasonable amount so I'm not spamming the thread.

I think it is kind of crazy people are even considering I'm scum since I drove D1 to arrange D2 partially around Tanner's scum reads. Feel like the town motivation for me to be in the same game as Tanner would also be low since he almost always suspects me. Maybe it would have happened anyhow, but seems like I would not seek that situation out as scum.

I think Tanner also had a question along these lines? I need to go fetch it.

Is this true, about Baltar driving D1 to arrange D2 around Tanner's scum reads? If it is true I'm failing to see how it's +town.

Tanner, I am only skimming. Are we certain to have a scum at the gate? If yes, resolving that first makes sense. We can yeet imaginality into the sun.

The dumbtell has already been discussed a bit, and my thoughts on it are minimal. It didn't give me any alignment pings either way really.

Spoiler: imaginality stuff

[snip]

2. He tried to rush the Gate vote today:

Tanner, I am only skimming. Are we certain to have a scum at the gate? If yes, resolving that first makes sense. We can yeet imaginality into the sun.

i mean, the whole point of the setup is that there's one scum in each of the three locations. and you're going "wait, there's scum at the gate?"

what was your thought process wrt our location when you saw that i was ic'ed?

I thought scum can place wherever they want as long as it's not all three at one location?

If it has to be one at each, then my thought is your imaginality read was right and let's flip it

This is objectively anti-town since VP won't be able to post after Gate is resolved, so if he were town he shouldn't be pushing to yeet me before he's shared his reads etc. in full. Whether or not there'd be value in getting me to post more also before yeeting me is more arguable, wifom etc., but him not wanting to wait to share his reads is not a pro-town mindset.

[snip]

I admit I didn't read this entire wall. But point 2 here really stands out to me because imag goes after Baltar for rushing the Gate vote - but literally the first thing imag did D2 was vote at the Gate.

I'm only up to the end of page 30 but I'm feeling scum vibes from Baltar much more than imaginality. Will be posting more as I continue to skim, but I wanted to put this out a while at least.

Some other misc thoughts:

I think Ari asking Luke for his best scum game is poignant because if Luke is scum he's playing a hell of a game here.

This one post more than anything else makes me doubt my push on implo. The associations are killing meeee

[VP Baltar]

I'm here and around if anything piques my interest, but mostly I'll shut up because Tanner knows my feelings and the wall people should keep talking.

[imaginality]

literally the first thing imag did D2 was vote at the Gate.

I explicitly said to Tanner at the time I voted that I wasn't wanting him to rush into voting.

[imaginality]

this part of the post specifically commits the sin i talked about last night. it's actively calling pav scum, and making the connection how a pav townflip makes vp looks worse... while at the same time still not acknowledging how pav looks better if vp is scum, which from his pov etc you know what i mean

Fair point. I've already admitted I've been tunnelled on me vs VP,
this is another instance of that.

[imaginality]

I'm here and around if anything piques my interest, but mostly I'll shut up because Tanner knows my feelings and the wall people should keep talking.

[Prism]

Fortress Status Report 1.7

The Keep is held by the Guardians.

Gate	Guardian Votes
VP Baltar (1)	imaginality (534)
imaginality (1)	VP Baltar (866)
Not voting (1)	Tanner

Wall	Guardian Votes
RH9 (0)
numberQ (0)
implosion (0)
Not voting (3)	numberQ, implosion, RH9 (1911)

The score is 1-0 in favor of the Guardians. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2022-01-07 06:25:00).

[RH9]

By the way, I actually still have troubles imaging a scumteam of Lukewarm-Baltar-implosion as suggested by imaginality. That scumteam doesn't make sense to me because Baltar and implosion haven't exactly been acting partnery.

Has implosion been partnery with imag? Have I been partnery with Baltar or imag?

imaginality and implosion don't seem like partners unless they are doing exceptional distancing. The reason for why imaginality wanted me to remove my reaction-vote was that scum!implosion might hammer you. imaginality doesn't think that you're scum as much as implosion during the time when you were away compared to when you were around. Maybe a Lukewarm-imaginality-numberQ scumteam. could exist. Baltar thinks that you are a 'black hole of boredom'. I'm not sure if that is what scum calls their partner. Looking back again, a Lukewarm-Baltar-implosion scumteam could exist because implosion called Tanner and VP Baltar town and claims that it is from impressions. He also considered Lukewarm Town too.

[RH9]

We have two days left. And I'll take another short break.

[VP Baltar]

The reason for why imaginality wanted me to remove my reaction-vote was that scum!implosion might hammer you.

This is an obvious "town" thing to say. In fact, I think I said it first. So I wouldn't be giving imaginality too much credit here.

[RH9]

The reason for why imaginality wanted me to remove my reaction-vote was that scum!implosion might hammer you.

This is an obvious "town" thing to say. In fact, I think I said it first. So I wouldn't be giving imaginality too much credit here.

imaginality said it first in 1858. You said it later in 1885.

[RH9]

The reason for why imaginality wanted me to remove my reaction-vote was that scum!implosion might hammer you.

This is an obvious "town" thing to say. In fact, I think I said it first. So I wouldn't be giving imaginality too much credit here.

imaginality said it first in 1858. You said it later in 1885.

Though, your reason was so that Tanner could make a decision while imaginality's reason was that scum!implosion might hammer town!numberQ if Tanner 'miseliminates' him. (At least, from imaginality's perspective.)

[VP Baltar]

Ah well I stand corrected. Regardless, it is obviously not protown to have a vote sitting out there when the gate should resolve first. I still wouldn't give myself or imaginality town points regardless for saying it.

[VP Baltar]

On the question of implosions alignment, the underlying premise in both asks is that implosion could be scum. I don't particularly think that's more likely than NQ being scum, but still always a risk.

[Tanner]

sooooo... is anyone gonna acknowledge 2031?

"baltar stuff" is:
- 524 feeling fake
- 700 being not +town (it's not said that it's "+scum", just that it's "not +town", so i'm guessing it's nai)
- dumbtell being nai

"imaginality stuff" is:
- him being a hypocrite in 691 for accusing baltar for rushing the gate vote, while the first thing he did was vote (assuming this is +scum)

so, we have 1 scummy thing for each of them, and 2 extra nai things for baltar. how does he end up at:

I'm only up to the end of page 30 but I'm feeling scum vibes from Baltar much more than imaginality.

[VP Baltar]

I've already said I think the team is imaginality-Luke-NQ.

[implosion]

Actually, I don't think that scum would wonder if I'm pocketing them like numberQ did in 2011. But scum could say it in order to make me think that they're Town. But would scum!numberQ do that? I need to check his scumrange again.

I don't think it's a hard thing to do as scum in a P-edit where he was just reacting in the moment to the post that was posted while he was writing.

[implosion]

Tanner do you have a strong opinion on resolving wall or gate first right now

my scumteam atm is still the same as baltar's.

[Tanner]

my strong opinion is that i want to resolve gate first so that if i fuck up, it's not game losing >_>

[VP Baltar]

my strong opinion is that i want to resolve gate first so that if i fuck up, it's not game losing >_>

I am assuming this is going to happen soon? We have two days left for the wall if you pick wrong, which already seems kind of rushed.