open 841: concgratulations to the winners and losers

[skitter30]

I don't want to get into a shit flinging contest with you because the last time we did that a bunch of people repped out and I don't want this game to also become unpleasant.

While i still kinda scumread pooky, this kinda 'clicked' in my mind and i can see his play now as coming from a town alignment

~
Nsg why do you townread flow?

~
Sleepless given that you said you were off today can we expect more catching up today, i hope that pop-in to vote flow does not go under the radar

Depending on the above will probably switch back to sleepless

~
Iv i dont really have a great reason why i'm not voting midway, other than my gut doesn't feel like he's scum or he's the right vote and i reallj should listen to my gut more on these things

I dont think he slipped, i think he just phrased things poorly

~
Back to work today, will be around less now

[Sleepless Assassin]

I plan on reading some more once I wake up, yes. I'm going to bed first though.

[northsidegal]

Nsg why do you townread flow?

while it's still true that i'm not supremely confident in this, i still do think that he has more fun as town and as scum puts more effort into trying to appear to be towny than he has here. even without that, though, the fact that he seems to be a relatively lim-bait-y player would make me want a lot more to vote him than just the idea that he hasn't done enough or is skating by.

[Faker]

Spoiler: For Pooky, without regard to the game

I strongly considered just leaving this without any further remark or acknowledgement. I am slightly bitter; you fully expected me to follow you in replacing out on the spot, because I always do in situations like this. And this time I refuse.

Fundamentally, I am tired, and while aggressive, attacked only your play. I was specific as to why I thought you were scum, readily owned up to the potential of being wrong, and my insult was limited to one line that stuck to your play. I should not have been so brutal, but I truthfully do not regret it.

It was extremely upsetting to see you relitigate the last Trust Fall. I held my tongue that entire game, was extreme generous to you throughout it, and accusing me of playing an equal part in The Worst replacing out was nonsensical. It was extremely obviously you, and you alone. I accept responsibility for replace-outs I cause, such as your own here.

If it is really so important to you, I think you are top 3 if not the single best town player active onsite.

And you are/were without me saying anything at all, because your play speaks for itself.

[Mare]

[Faker]

I don't want to get into a shit flinging contest with you because the last time we did that a bunch of people repped out and I don't want this game to also become unpleasant.

While i still kinda scumread pooky, this kinda 'clicked' in my mind and i can see his play now as coming from a town alignment

I really questioned the faith of this line. I am still gauging to what extent it is validated by the replacement, versus just being sick of me in general.

But contextually it made zero sense. I did not want to litigate this publicly while he was present to clog up the thread debating it but the game he's referring to The Worst replaced out after Pooky went on a 3 page ego posting spree about hating Wisdom, hating the playerlist, and how he didn't give a shit about anyone else or about winning and all that mattered was himself being right. I was not even posting. That was the only replacement that game other than when Pooky himself had another egotistical break and left after another 3 page ego spiel.

I don't say this to beat the dead horse and relive the past, I was just very confused by that post of his this game and it seemed a real stretch.

[Faker]

I really don't want to linger on this, since the application to this game is limited basically to that single line, but this is the game Pooky is referring to, and the relevant posts the immediate next two pages if you're curious.

The link is to the last post of The Worst's. You can...skim the next two pages and draw a really easy conclusion.

[Faker]

Reviewing it looks like he legitimately did those mental gymnastics of blaming others for the rep-out in question at the time.

Still a bit bizarre to blame me for it now, since he seemed to think it was mutually slapfighting with Wisdom, but I'd throw it in the "evidence in favor of legitimate" pile.

[skitter30]

I dont think you've done anything out of line, and i dont think you're being unreasonable, and i think that how you're approaching him is very +town (albeit apparently he's finding you annoying)

And i dont like the way he's reacted/handled this entire situation, and i do think its +scum

At the same time i can see a universe where he felt past experiences with you were ~unpleasant~ and is choosing to interact this way to avoid a repeat (i am thinking of the *other* trust fall)

Again not saying this is what's happening or that i townread him for it, but like it makes sense as a coherent motivator for what he's been doing this game, and i *can* see it coming from town, and it makes his play kinda *fit* in my mind, even if i'm not sure it comes from town, if that makes sense. Like if he's town that's what he's doing here, whereas before the 'pooky motivation' box in my head was just filled with a lot of question marks, and again noting on balance i think its more scum than town to begin with

And yeah i suppose we can see what happens next with that slot anyways

[Faker]

I think we are literally on exactly the same page.

Again will move my vote later.

[catboi]

Hey cat, instead of lurking you should consider placing a fucking vote before deadline.

I was going to vote you for fun but it wouldn't feel appropriate after the last few pages

[catboi]

I have zero confidence in myself right now and would rather just sheep someone who has a strong read. Think iv andante mare and midway town not really confident on anyone else

[catboi]

Whole exchange with pooky strikes me as not related to alignment and I'm not going to read anything into it

[catboi]

Actually

VOTE: flow trap

my impression of him based on researching a few games is that he tends to filler/spam post early as either alignment but as town he gradually transitions into playing more serious where as scum it never really comes, he'll throw in the occasional opinion to look like he's doing something but there's not a lot going on behind the curtain, so to speak. And I feel like his posts over the last couple of real-time days have been essentially that: responding to things for the sake of responding to them but nothing that gives any indication he's really thinking about the game at all

[innocentvillager]

Actually

VOTE: flow trap

my impression of him based on researching a few games is that he tends to filler/spam post early as either alignment but as town he gradually transitions into playing more serious where as scum it never really comes, he'll throw in the occasional opinion to look like he's doing something but there's not a lot going on behind the curtain, so to speak. And I feel like his posts over the last couple of real-time days have been essentially that: responding to things for the sake of responding to them but nothing that gives any indication he's really thinking about the game at all

big if true

[innocentvillager]

y u confident on midway town again? quoting past stuff fine

i remember last time we talked about him you were kinda reconsidering/maybe nullish on him

[innocentvillager]

I dont think you've done anything out of line, and i dont think you're being unreasonable, and i think that how you're approaching him is very +town (albeit apparently he's finding you annoying)

And i dont like the way he's reacted/handled this entire situation, and i do think its +scum

At the same time i can see a universe where he felt past experiences with you were ~unpleasant~ and is choosing to interact this way to avoid a repeat (i am thinking of the *other* trust fall)

Again not saying this is what's happening or that i townread him for it, but like it makes sense as a coherent motivator for what he's been doing this game, and i *can* see it coming from town, and it makes his play kinda *fit* in my mind, even if i'm not sure it comes from town, if that makes sense. Like if he's town that's what he's doing here, whereas before the 'pooky motivation' box in my head was just filled with a lot of question marks, and again noting on balance i think its more scum than town to begin with

And yeah i suppose we can see what happens next with that slot anyways

i agree with this

[innocentvillager]

Actually

VOTE: flow trap

my impression of him based on researching a few games is that he tends to filler/spam post early as either alignment but as town he gradually transitions into playing more serious where as scum it never really comes, he'll throw in the occasional opinion to look like he's doing something but there's not a lot going on behind the curtain, so to speak. And I feel like his posts over the last couple of real-time days have been essentially that: responding to things for the sake of responding to them but nothing that gives any indication he's really thinking about the game at all

we should really get some sort of cross check on this by someone who knows flow trap, because if this is true, ill prolly just vote there

if no one wants to ill do some second hand meta myself later i guess

[catboi]

Might be being overly generous to mare on second thought but not really a bridge I'm interested in crossing today still

[catboi]

y u confident on midway town again? quoting past stuff fine

i remember last time we talked about him you were kinda reconsidering/maybe nullish on him

I will be honest I was working almost entirely off the top of my head from memory and holding to my early impression because I have not wanted to think about the game at all. I basically skimmed the entire section of you thinking he slipped. On looking it over it now: not really convincing as a slip. In terms of the rest of his posting it still feels like he's sorting in earnest (e.g. 1791, 1794, 1798, yes this is essentially "long post town" but he's stringing together paragraphs of reasoning that are believable and seems unbothered by the pressure on him, even after you were saying he slipped, which feels townish here. I don't find the reasons for scumreading him to be strong the idea that he's not interacting with people ergo scum isn't all that convincing given that that feels like a variable that can change depending on how connected one feels to the game (I often tend toward playing more of an ovserver as town), and interacting with others is ~relatively easy to fake anyway.

(I am still lazy so I looked at your ISO and found your reasoning from the top of the second page, if you have some other points against him I'd appreciate it if you could restate it)

[Mare]

[Andante]

y u confident on midway town again? quoting past stuff fine

i remember last time we talked about him you were kinda reconsidering/maybe nullish on him

I've also said midway town a bunch, you're convinced midway maf?

[SirCakez]

I'm not interested in fighting with you over stupid nonsense and I don't need to push you at this moment to remove your slot if I think you are mafia.

VOTE: Pooky

That is absolutely not the lesson you learned from 3992, and you are not only not pushing me but not pushing

anyone

.

I literally said your opening push on me made sense and grilled Cakez for not buying it, so don't give me nonsense about "but if I do push it then you'll just be stubborn and dismissive!"

exactly the man is playing evasively and not taking shit on like he does as town

Okay, so no one bit on me trying to save my buddy. What’s the scum motivation I have for not following up at all with it, not intervening, not changing to bus, like...

Like I just say “why” do nothing he dies and then there’s this awkward beat there in an ISO that has already left me POE’d...?

what is the scum motivation FOR following up when it's not working? no point beating on something that wasn't panning out
and midway isn't even under much pressure here

Mare doesn't take neighborizer as scum with her draft position

now this is a good point and something I'm considering

Ive basically never seen scum claim impulsively like that before for no reason so im fine with mare being strong town

This is not great logic

y not?

Because scum would do that I don't think it's AI at all

sure it's possible, seems like a difference of experience ive just never really seen it

if you want to convince me otherwise u could show me some examples where you think this happened but idk if it's worth ur effort

after what catboi said I think it doesn't matter anyways

[SirCakez]

really at the end of the day im just left weakly scumreading him for all the stuff he did before i pushed him

I agree with skitter about the gamestate is rn. She made the observation that only two people are voting sleepless and I think only three are voting me right now. I think the current lack of consensus means we end up just deflecting onto Sleepless or me at the end. Tbh, it seems like few people have super strong scumreads so im somewhat tempted just to sheep mare lol

I don't know if this is just midway's posting style or what but literally this post pings me so bad tonally
it's all like "well we are going to end up doing this" and "I agree with this" and there's NO COMMITTAL TO ANYTHING and it's driving me insane

[Andante]

Here's probably where I'm at right now

Town: SS, catboi, Faker, datisi
Probably town, but I have some doubts that I'm not looking into right now: skitter, cakez, midway, northsidegal
Probably mafia: IV, flow, Pooky, Mare (with IV but not with flow)
Definitely maf: Sleepless