CONTROL - GAME OVER!

[Cephrir]

As promised, here are some examples of MUSH's fallacious logic.

The content of your post reads EXACTLY in theme with a specific part of Control, but its a part that wouldn't be very likely to come up in a green role PM. If you hadn't fluffposted without thinking through the consequences of your actions you might have been fine, but instead you fluffposted in a way that gave the game away, precisely because you didn't know what you were talking about. Sorry bud

According to MUSH, Cephrir is scum for 57 because it isn't likely to have come from a town role pm. Let me point out some of the various ways this argument is fallacious:

1: It presupposes that Cephrir is familiar with the source material. This is evidently false because in 57, Cephrir explicitly states he is not familiar with the source material. You may argue that it's scum indicative regardless, but there's nothing preventing someone with a town alignment who is unfamiliar with the source material from making the exact same post. While it may be true perhaps that a scum role pm may make such a post more likely (I wouldn't know as I don't know the source material), it is at best a marginal difference.

2: It also presupposes that Cephrir's role is directly related to the post at hand and that Cephrir pulled material from his role pm to make that post. There is no evidence in favor of this assumption; in fact, later posts highly suggest this is not the case as Cephrir denied MUSH's guess in 123.

The following two go together.

Ircher why do you think I'm making any claims about Cephrir specifically and not a general statement about anyone in the circumstances Cephrir finds himself in

Ceph and I have never played together, there is no meta being used here

I guess you're still scum. Great job bolstering my early hypothesis

MUSH's argument here is that I am scum at least in part because I misinterpreted one of MUSH's earlier posts as being a specific observation about Cephrir rather than a general observation. For reference, the post I misinterpreted was 63:

Look if you didn't want to get burned down early then you should've used your noggin before you fluffposted, now its too late and that's your problem not mine

I would like to point out that if you are reading chronologically (and thus haven't seen the elaboration in 80, then it is very easy to interpret this post as MUSH scum reading fluffposting in general. My assumption was since that in the general case, that does not equate scum, there must have been something specific between MUSH and Cephrir that led to Cephrir's post being scummy in MUSH's eyes. 70 does not contradict my initial assumption; in fact, it reinforced it. Finally, there was also Lady Lambdadelta's take in 71, and her take is in fact a meta read. These factors combined, my original assumption, while incorrect, was reasonable. The issue here is that MUSH is trying to twist this around and paint it as scum!me protecting scum!Cephrir. MUSH is completely ignoring the "how would town come to this assumption" and instead jumps straight to the conclusion that reinforces MUSH's own preexisting bias. The argument that I am scum for making an incorrect assumption is fallacious because it completely ignores all the other equally plausible scenario and instead picks the one that fits in the most with MUSH's narrative.

Thanks for responding.

I've also read into the whole

Cephrir

thing and I think it's missing the information on what kind of insider information did they reveal. So maybe it's not fallacious reasoning

per se

, but definitely lacking some explanation that should have been there.

And also, there is the issue of how that wagon was suddenly dropped in favour of voting out you.

I agree with what has been said in the second part of your post and that's also part of my objection with regard to

MUSHSHAGANA

's slot too. Thing is, there's a lot of strong voices in defense of this slot which involves that player's meta and it's made me more hesitant to go with that too. Which is why I dropped it.

I think this post is good enough for me to not want to vote out

Ircher

yet

after all.

i think this is town

[Cephrir]

in fact im gonna go out on a limb here and say that's the single towniest post in the thread. fight me

[Save The Dragons]

i said greeting was town before it was cool

[Save The Dragons]

though i disagree i think ircher is scum

[Tet]

Roden, why do you think Greeting is the best vote for today?

I hate the RVS analysis posts. They made my eyes glaze over and it just read as information-over-analysis to me. It's typically a town tell to me, but there's a thin line between actually town telling and just LAMIST serious analysis posts.

Additionally, I don't think Greeting and LLD are aligned, and since I town read LLD I have to give Greeting the boot.

So, I took the time to analyse two players who were under suspicion at the moment and tried to understand the arguments against them and that's bad?

Half of the votes this game have either been not explained at all, or were given three lines of text at most. At least that's my impression. Sorry for wanting to make a more informed choice as to whom I'm voting out.

I also think that

Lady Lambdadelta

is town but I don't see a shred of an explanation why her being town makes me scum.

Welcome to the world of Mafia outside the newbie queue.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Yeah I been saying Greeting's town LOL

But Ircher is King of Scum... Look I even dug up a song for the purpose of illustrating Ircher's scumminess:



(ALSO I can't believe I never made this joke before looooooooooooooool)

[The Three Bears]

Aint pink enough here

T3 throwing some strong reads out here.
Ircher's so town he's a Capitol/City
Galron apparently isn't townie enough to be a city.
T3 can be Oppidum. Or Oppidanus if he so prefers.

Fun fact, Latin is a hella tricky language and Google likes to autofil what it thinks you mean, Oppidum T3.

[The Three Bears]

--Pinkie

[Roden]

roden's posts are yucky

Go on.

[Roden]

Roden, why do you think Greeting is the best vote for today?

I hate the RVS analysis posts. They made my eyes glaze over and it just read as information-over-analysis to me. It's typically a town tell to me, but there's a thin line between actually town telling and just LAMIST serious analysis posts.

Additionally, I don't think Greeting and LLD are aligned, and since I town read LLD I have to give Greeting the boot.

So, I took the time to analyse two players who were under suspicion at the moment and tried to understand the arguments against them and that's bad?

Half of the votes this game have either been not explained at all, or were given three lines of text at most. At least that's my impression. Sorry for wanting to make a more informed choice as to whom I'm voting out.

I also think that

Lady Lambdadelta

is town but I don't see a shred of an explanation why her being town makes me scum.

This weird spin on what happened just makes me feel even worse about your posts.

[Save The Dragons]

Bears, LLD, Cephrir, Mastina, Norwe, Tet are all most likely town.

Greeting, Galron, STD, Ircher, Mush contains at least a few scum. My vote stopped being RVS btw.

this read list sucks it leaves a lot to be desired

the phrase "contains a few scum" feels fake

your vote for greeting is weird it comes with no explanation but you stopped being RVS (tbf you explain it later, but i hate it too so...)

you stick Ircher on there but don't want to vote him because you want to look like you're in agreement with the consensus but are waiting until later to actually be like "i guess we'll go ircher" it's making me think ircher might be town and you're scum

Roden, why do you think Greeting is the best vote for today?

I hate the RVS analysis posts. They made my eyes glaze over and it just read as information-over-analysis to me. It's typically a town tell to me, but there's a thin line between actually town telling and just LAMIST serious analysis posts.

this feels fake as hell i don't know how to describe it you're like a scummy cat waving your paw around

Additionally, I don't think Greeting and LLD are aligned, and since I town read LLD I have to give Greeting the boot.

this is weird as heck, why do you think greeting is unaligned with LLD

[Save The Dragons]

greeting just seems so townie it looks like you're scum who can't see that and are doubling down on a bad read

[Save The Dragons]

my only hesitation is that i always scumread you

[MUSHSHAGANA]

ehhh I can see someone saying "bad play=antitown=scum" in their head tbh, and Roden joindate makes that feel more likely even???????

The anti-alignment of LLD and Greeting is fully fabricated tho LOL and REGARDLESS of alignment bro needs to walk that shit back big time like why you gotta make shit up, just say you had a gut read LOL

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The flipless anticonnective between greeting and I is very strange to me.

[tictac]

greeting just seems so townie it looks like you're scum who can't see that and are doubling down on a bad read

disagree about greeting
VOTE: greeting
in fact

theres a kind of annoyance at the resistance to mush push that feels scum-indic and the curiosity that accompinies is kinda performative and weird-agressive.
258 prolly the best example of this.

[Roden]

Bears, LLD, Cephrir, Mastina, Norwe, Tet are all most likely town.

Greeting, Galron, STD, Ircher, Mush contains at least a few scum. My vote stopped being RVS btw.

this read list sucks it leaves a lot to be desired

the phrase "contains a few scum" feels fake

your vote for greeting is weird it comes with no explanation but you stopped being RVS (tbf you explain it later, but i hate it too so...)

you stick Ircher on there but don't want to vote him because you want to look like you're in agreement with the consensus but are waiting until later to actually be like "i guess we'll go ircher" it's making me think ircher might be town and you're scum

Roden, why do you think Greeting is the best vote for today?

I hate the RVS analysis posts. They made my eyes glaze over and it just read as information-over-analysis to me. It's typically a town tell to me, but there's a thin line between actually town telling and just LAMIST serious analysis posts.

this feels fake as hell i don't know how to describe it you're like a scummy cat waving your paw around

Additionally, I don't think Greeting and LLD are aligned, and since I town read LLD I have to give Greeting the boot.

this is weird as heck, why do you think greeting is unaligned with LLD

Yeah I know my reads list sucks, once we cut the player list in half and we're more than 48 hours into the game it'll probably look better.

"Contains a few scum" isn't a fake statement. My reads aren't strong but I feel like my read rate early in the game is usually 50/50, so I feel that some of my scum reads are probably correct.

STD what kind of low level scum do you think I am that I would telegraph an Ircher miselim like that? If I was scum and he was town I'd just vote him, it really wouldn't be hard to blend in with a wagon that would have twelve people on it.

Idk why you think my explanation of the Greeting vote is fake. I think your reaction is fake if anything lol.

I don't think LLD and Greeting are aligned because I town read one and scum read the other.

greeting just seems so townie it looks like you're scum who can't see that and are doubling down on a bad read

If I'm scum the read wouldn't be bad lol, it would just be wrong. Weird that you'd apply town logic to me if you're scum reading me.

my only hesitation is that i always scumread you

To be fair I think I've been scum almost every time we've played together.

[Roden]

ehhh I can see someone saying "bad play=antitown=scum" in their head tbh, and Roden joindate makes that feel more likely even???????

The anti-alignment of LLD and Greeting is fully fabricated tho LOL and REGARDLESS of alignment bro needs to walk that shit back big time like why you gotta make shit up, just say you had a gut read LOL

I feel like it's pretty clear that it has to be partially based on a gut read.

[Roden]

ehhh I can see someone saying "bad play=antitown=scum" in their head tbh, and Roden joindate makes that feel more likely even???????

The anti-alignment of LLD and Greeting is fully fabricated tho LOL and REGARDLESS of alignment bro needs to walk that shit back big time like why you gotta make shit up, just say you had a gut read LOL

I feel like it's pretty clear that it has to be partially based on a gut read.

Also "bad play = anti-town = scum" wasn't my thought process actually.

[Save The Dragons]

why don't you explain your scum reads

[Save The Dragons]

If I'm scum the read wouldn't be bad lol, it would just be wrong. Weird that you'd apply town logic to me if you're scum reading me.

scum can pick a bad target to read

scum can

pick a

bad

target to

read

[Save The Dragons]

I don't think LLD and Greeting are aligned because I town read one and scum read the other.

this looks like a walk back you originally said you tr one and therefore scumread the other because they're unaligned.

VOTE: roden

[Roden]

why don't you explain your scum reads

Sure.

If I'm scum the read wouldn't be bad lol, it would just be wrong. Weird that you'd apply town logic to me if you're scum reading me.

scum can pick a bad target to read

scum can

pick a

bad

target to

read

Did you?

I don't think LLD and Greeting are aligned because I town read one and scum read the other.

this looks like a walk back you originally said you tr one and therefore scumread the other because they're unaligned.

VOTE: roden

STD do you honestly believe my scum grand plan was to give half assed reads then fuck around with you after you give a really uninteresting scum case on me

[MUSHSHAGANA]

god Dragons is so fuckin town

Roden is so fuckin null, tho. Like can see scumreading but the scum-percentage there is way lower than Ircher IMO, esp with the wagon stalled out where it is on Ircher

Like. Can you explain why's Roden scum and not bad town here LOL

[Save The Dragons]

i know roden's good at scum and he's good at the game, he's not going to be bad town