Mini 2254 | Subreddit uPick | Fin

[mastina]

If you do, right now I'm calling Ivan and shiro my masons.

Shiro is, Ivan isn't.

There's literally no way the mod includes an ungated parity cop-neighborizer who cannot have their action fail, ON TOP OF a very powerful cop (Dwlee) ON TOP OF another investigative (player I trust to be town), ON TOP OF Bombay's investigative, all as town.

Yes, you think Bombay is scum, but that's still an ungated parity cop-neighborizer who cannot have their action fail, ON TOP OF a very powerful cop (Dwlee) ON TOP OF another investigative (player I trust to be town).

that's really gutsy for bombay or ivan to fakeclaim though.

Was I literally the only one who read morph the cat's post on how roles were designed?

Alignments will be randomized after the roles are initially designed,

and roles will be revised as needed based on alignments

.

This ensures that subreddit flavor has no correlation with the alignment rolls. Any subreddit in the game can be any alignment.

EVERY role in this game, every single one, was designed first as a town role. All 13 players received town roles.

The three scum roles were, after being designed as scum roles, then modified based on alignment.

The modifications to the role would mean that the original, town-designed (and thus, town-appearing in a massclaim) role, would still look like town when claimed because it was town...but that the scum role would then have something extra beyond the claimed role.

Everyone who saw morph the cat's post should've known this.

How the fuck was I the one to notice this when I'm prone to missing vital setup info? I literally saw that before I had a role PM (which is why I was planning on, if I was ever seriously suspected, claiming "trust me, I guarantee that I have a town role, I can modconfirm it to be so", and if pressed, bringing up the post I quoted.)

[mastina]

what no that's obviously not what I was saying
Suripoko being scum does not make the hammer good?? maybe from their PoV but I'm not in their PoV

But that's the thing. You're accusing Suripoko of making a bad hammer, but if Suripoko is scum then the hammer isn't bad, it's good; it can only be a bad hammer if Suripoko is town. So from your point of view, calling the hammer bad is a scumslip of knowing Suripoko is town.

if Ivan's scum, what's the motivation in making me confirmed town?

I can think of one.

I can think of three.

If they are scum why pick me for that gambit?

You were under zero pressure D1 (and for that matter, D2).

If there were a push on you as scum D1, then conftowning you might lose something.

But with no push on you D1, conftowning you loses nothing.

Conftowning a player means that they go from mislimmable to not-mislimmable.

But if you were not going to be a mislim without a claim, then the conftown doesn't do anything.

It generally seems like a bad gambit and their interaction in our neighborhood seems genuine as hell.

Fun fact, Scum Neighborizer is one of the strongest roles in existence (in Normals, it literally has a

higher winrate than scum roleblockers

, higher winrate than scum ninjas, higher winrate than scum strongmen), and the outcome of May and Brendan's Pokemon game is proof enough of that in action.

I wonder why?

(It's because pocketing people in neighborhoods as scum is ridiculously easy.)

[mastina]

what is the motivation for Ivan to fakeclaim as scum here? it does nothing for them

Realclaiming a mod-given role that has an extra effect that they didn't claim which pockets the player who singlehandedly forced through a Dwlee elimination sounds like pretty damn strong motivation to me.

But then again you're also scum with Ivan, so...

Fuck are you scum?
JJH is so town to me lol

Yes, SirCakez is scum.

And yes, jjh is VERY town--which should tell you something.

If you believe jjh to be town you shouldn't be trusting Ivan to be town.

[mastina]

Alas, totally MIA on her part.

V/LA 48 hours

(Closing Wednesday into opening Thursday = can't post at all on Wednesday.)
Won't be able to post at all on Wednesday, but I'll force posts later tonight and on Thursday regardless of how much I don't feel like them.

(Ended up unable to post on Thursday, sorry, but.) LLD you KNOW that this wasn't limited to this game.

Mastina's reads this game have made sense and she's pushing on Cakez/Bombay...

I also have Suripoko as one of my strongest townreads and have the entire game, so...

Hell,

I probably would have killed you over Skitter as well

(but probably Rogue over you).

You have actively and loudly pushed

me in every single game we have ever played in together. I would rather not have you here to do that again if I really were scum and had a choice in who was here.

LLD, who wrestles the thread hard to push through her scum reads

, who in prone to scum reading me, and has already voiced suspicions on me, or Skitter, who is repeatedly defending me at every turn.

This is why Ivan is scum btw.

Bombay's reasons here aren't limited to Bombay.

Basically every player in the game has identical sentiments--LLD has loudly pushed. LLD wrestles the thread hard to push her scumreads. LLD is prone to scumreading scum. This, REGARDLESS of who is scum in the game. Add in that LLD was already obvtown, and the question becomes:

who has motivation to keep LLD alive over skitter?

How about the person intending to hard-pocket her via a claim in a neighborhood of their creation who targeted her D1?

[mastina]

Mastina being a nonentity concerns me.

V/LA 48 hours

(Closing Wednesday into opening Thursday = can't post at all on Wednesday.)
Won't be able to post at all on Wednesday, but I'll force posts later tonight and on Thursday regardless of how much I don't feel like them.

Check my posts both before and after the V/LA and I dare you to say I was a nonentity given the length of D1. (As a reminder, D1 lasted five days. D1 lasted less than a week. D1 lasted 120 hours.)

[mastina]

Oh I meant to say this but obviously, I don't think the scumteam is {Bombay, Ivan, SirCakez} since Bombay and Ivan are pretty transparently not scum together.

One of them is town, the other is scum, pretty much guaranteed.

Ivan and SirCakez are far far far more obviously scumbuddies and Ivan's claim is far far far more likely to be scum than town so I favor Ivan as scum over Bombay as scum but I do admit that my solve isn't possible and that there's a third scum who was outside of it. I've been focused elsewhere but it won't take me long to recalibrate and find the third.

[mastina]

Even if I didn't reject your entire premise that I'm allowed to find something simultaneously scummy and obnoxious

And yet you said 'obnoxious' without saying 'scummy'.

If it was scummy

and

obnoxious, why didn't you SAY "scummy and obnoxious" or some variant thereof? You said 'obnoxious', and only obnoxious. You said nothing of the scumminess.

I don't think it's fake. There's no reason to conf. town me as a parity cop in that way.

I don't think it's fake either.

But there very much IS reason to "conftown" you (quotes, because you already were conftown).

All roles in this game were

designed as town roles

.
But then, after being assigned an alignment,

adjusted based off of alignment

.
There's literally half a dozen modifications to the role which could benefit the scum. Parity cop, but rolecops the targets to give scum the info. Parity cop, but roleblocks the targets to prevent them from acting. Parity cop, but loverizes the targets to allow for them to both die at the same time. Parity cop, but busdrives the targets. And so on and so forth. You don't know about them because Ivan isn't going to claim the scum addition to the town role, Ivan's only going to claim the original role.

Beyond that?

You were a top candidate for being nightkilled N1. The scum killed skitter N1 instead--but why did they not kill you N1? Because they were already targeting you with a role. You were targeted by a role and as such scum had reason to not kill you N1.

The parity cop helps pocket you, when you are already a strong pusher--you literally basically singlehandedly pushed through the Dwlee elimination. You pushed through ONE elimination; tell me, LLD: what stops scum from trying to pocket you in order to push through more?

I do not believe that the mods would have allowed us + Dwlee's cop + a parity cop to all fire night one.

Then there is a fourth investigative role ON TOP OF THESE THREE OTHERS CLAIMED, which I know the player of and I trust that player to be town.

That's

four

investigative role claims, one of which being a Cop (proven from Dwlee) and a second being a Parity Cop (Ivan's claim) that is also a neighborizer who cannot be blocked or redirected or otherwise interfered with.

My role allowed a neighborhood to form with two other players last night that persists into today. By foregoing posting there until night ended, I was able to get a parity cop result on the other two players. LLD and Shiro share an alignment.

I am soft-counterclaiming this

.

Not a hard-counterclaim, but:

I am a communicative role

, similar to a neighborizer (albeit not as strong).

Through my role,

I know that there is another investigative player in the game

(who claimed to me specifically). This player I 100% trust to be town absolutely.

Between Bombay's claim, Ivan's claim, the investigative player that I know, and Dwlee, there's no way all four of them are town, and I believe Ivan is scum specifically because an ungated parity cop that cannot be stopped, when Dwlee was already a basically ungated full cop? Not something which is going to exist.

I believe that Ivan's role was designed as a town role, so I believe the parity cop is real. But while I believe Ivan's realclaiming a parity cop, I don't believe Ivan is town from it.

I was planning on cheekily claiming if there was ever heavy suspicion on me, "I guarantee you that my role is a town one, I can mod-confirm it to be so". And then pointing this out. But since Ivan has claimed a Parity Cop, I need to point this out: there was a mod post saying "all roles are designed as town, and then modified as needed". (I can't find it, I think morph either edited it out or deleted it, but it was there during the pregame, everyone who checked the thread then can confirm. OH WAIT I found it.)

Alignments will be randomized after the roles are initially designed,

and roles will be revised as needed based on alignments

.

This ensures that subreddit flavor has no correlation with the alignment rolls. Any subreddit in the game can be any alignment.

Alignments are given AFTER roles are designed.

You can have a Doctor, Cop, and Vig, all designed as town roles, end up as being scum roles--and then, still as the Doctor, Cop, and Vig, be modified as the Scum Doctor, Scum Cop, and scum Vig, to be revised as needed to make them be balanced.

So Ivan is probably truthfully claiming with the parity cop.

But lying by omission by leaving out the extras of the role. Rolecopping both individuals, roleblocking both individuals, redirecting/busdriving/something else both individuals, there's any number of hidden modifications to the role you can make where scum has incentive to use it, and in fact, the target selection makes me think that it was done for precisely that extra. Keeping LLD in reigns makes a lot of sense and gaining something on Shiro also makes a lot of sense.

The target selection makes perfect sense for scum who have extra to the role beyond parity cop, but not make sense for town who is genuine in being nothing but a parity cop.

Why does the target selection make no sense for town?

Because LLD was basically universally townread and a strong player who was already pushing hard. If skitter wasn't the nightkill, there's a very high chance that it'd have been LLD who was killed instead.

LLD was always going to be town in that parity cop result, and we'd learn nothing from it, because she already was insanely town.

And Shiro adds nothing to that.

Tell me--

was there so much as a single player pushing Shiro

at all

on D1?

Because I'm pretty damn sure that not a single person was pushing Shiro on D1, and there was nobody even pushing Shiro on D2. Nobody pushing Shiro means that conftowning Shiro doesn't actually change the gamestate. Shiro was at no risk of being mislimmed here as town, LLD was at no risk of being mislimmed here as town; the result did nothing to change the gamestate.

Ivan as scum loses

nothing

from giving the result.

What does Ivan as scum gain from the result?

Whatever Ivan's extra beyond the parity cop is, for a start.
And then the pocketing of LLD (who is, as mentioned, strongly pushing) as well as Shiro.

VOTE: That Idiot Ivan
Basically confscum here.

Gonna carry these over to the next page, too.

[mastina]

T++

:

Rogue > Suripoko > jjh927 > LLD > skitter30

T

:

T3

T?

:

StrangeMatter

N-T:

Dwlee99

N

:

Shiro

N-S:

Ivan

S

:

SirCakez (always) > The Bombay

So Bombay can't be scum with Ivan but Ivan is obviously scum with SirCakez.

Suripoko is hard-townslipped as conftown from SirCakez and Ivan.

Rogue is pretty damn transparently town here.

LLD and Shiro are conftown.

jjh is basically conftown here.

Which means third scum is one of {T3, StrangeMatter}.

[mastina]

SirCakez is concerning.

Why was SirCakez concerning? I don't feel like you've ever elaborated on this and it's just not been talked about it.

Oh it's probably StrangeMatter since this is scum theater here.

It also is proof of why Ivan is scum btw; if SirCakez was so concerning, why was SirCakez not one of Ivan's targets?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm not willing to bet hard on Ivan being scum here, not for a day and probably not for 2 days.

[T3]

Suri should die today

I’m not explaining unless I absolutely have to

[T3]

Limming ivan is bad

[The Bombay]

My top three scum reads right now are Ivan, T3, and SirCakez.

[jjh927]

Oh, and to go ahead and put my money where my mouth is even though I think it's a horrible idea in a vacuum, I had no interaction with boxes last night. Enjoy that info along with a townread, jjh. (and yes, I claimed that in my neighborhood when you initially asked for claims so that it was on record)

Cakez, what do you think of SM's questioning if Shiro was in the neighborhood? Motivationally speaking.

Ivan, I note you may have left something intentionally vague

Did you start the game with a box?

[That Idiot Ivan]

No, although I appreciate that one person in this game is capable of noticing potential intentional vagueness.

I'll be on later tonight when I have keyboard access.

In the meantime, if people want spoilers, they should go read what I've actually posted this day phase from my claim on instead of what the paranoiac folk have extrapolated from the parts I've claimed.

[jjh927]

Okay that means at least one person has said they don't have a box who does have a box- 2 if Shiro doesn't have one

[jjh927]

Going to have a think about the most likely liars but unfortunately I would prefer to elim someone who doesn't have a box from a purely mechanical pov

[The Bombay]

My role allowed a neighborhood to form with two other players last night that persists into today. By foregoing posting there until night ended, I was able to get a parity cop result on the other two players. LLD and Shiro share an alignment.

This seems pretty cut and dry as a neighborizor plus parity cop claim.

The only thing I see that might have been a misunderstanding is if you are saying you did not get to choose your targets, and therefore our questions about why you chose LLD and Shiro are irrelevant.

That does nothing with my bigger concern that my role + Dwlee's role + your role is up to 4 potential alignment reveals all with the ability to fire night 1.

[jjh927]

Oh, at this point I think it will come as surprise to nobody that suripoko is the inevitable elimination

Given this is plurality and as such there is no e-1 etc, I suggest that suripoko should claim ASAP as deadline is soon, and I imagine that claiming through image posting may be quite difficult if they insist on keeping that up- especially since I have no idea how to interpret some of the later ones like the one with the faces and the umbrella and the chair and the kangaroo

[The Bombay]

I do not want a Suripoko elimination today.

I will move my vote to any of my three scum reads to get those to go through over Suri.

StrangeMatter also voiced reservations about killing Suri.

Suri obviously would not want their own elimination.

That is enough votes to consolidate on a non Suri wagon, and I don't agree with you accessment that they are already the elimination for the day.

[jjh927]

Idk what 983 is either

[The Bombay]

Like, all three of those people moving to join you and Mastina on Cakez currently kills Cakez over Suri.

[jjh927]

I am reading the gamestate

Suripoko will be the elim without a significant gamestate shift

[The Bombay]

Wait, Mastina moved off Cakez.

But still, her vote would be a part of the consolidation effort.

[That Idiot Ivan]

As I said, Suripoko is capable of using their words any time they choose to. I have no sympathy for this game of Pictionary.

Bombay, might I suggest you stop trying to sing the song of this game when you've only been given a handful of notes?