Mini 2254 | Subreddit uPick | Fin

[T3]

i did not get a message saying that i lost my box.

[That Idiot Ivan]

I'm particularly annoyed that some people seem to think they can get away with not acknowledging we're doing massclaim because of how soon deadline is

You know that Cabd and ffery are going to include something to punish town for giving scum free info. I don't think we're that confused at this point.

Okay, I'll sleep on it.

You and Bombay needed to claim though or I was gonna lose my mind and JJH needed to claim for being a cheeky fucker with answers who wasn't sharing.

I stand by that much at least. But we don't need to rush the rest.

A) the mass claim plan is on hiatus last I heard and B) why on earth would we take direction from a claimed third-party? Except apparently for StrangeMatter.

This post has been brought to you by another 'O' word, officious.

[jjh927]

I thought we were still going

I think at least we want T3 and Suripoko to claim

[The Bombay]

Why does T3 only comment on useless things?

[T3]

i'm observing

[T3]

r/chessporn

[Shiro]

Anyone who thinks mastina actually got a 100 character messenger role as her only real power, raise your hand.

Me

As a general rule, Mastina doesn't lie about her role.

I don't think she is lying, I think she is not saying everything.

[jjh927]

If she is not saying everything then she is lying because she has explicitly stated there is no more to her role

[jjh927]

The role related angle is completely the wrong push on Mastina here and it is reasonable to expect that town should have some low power roles from a balance perspective

But hey, you don't have to listen to me

[jjh927]

Personally I'd say look at her play and determine she is probably playing her towngame from that

[That Idiot Ivan]

Remind me of your incentive to correctly read and point out Mafia here.

[Suripoko]

[morph the cat]

Vote Count 2-6

mastina

(3): Lady Lambdadelta, That Idiot Ivan, Shiro

Suripoko

(3): SirCakez, Rogue, T3

SirCakez

(2): jjh927, mastina

Rogue

(1): StrangeMatter

That Idiot Ivan

(1): Suripoko

Not Voting

(1): The Bombay

Plurality Rules are in Effect

Deadline: January 17, 1:00 PM US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2022-01-17 10:00:00)

Mod Notes:

SirCakez is v/la until 1/17
-

[The Bombay]

Hey guys, running a fever and slept for the last several hours, and all I want to do is go back to sleep.. Probably going to leave the reigns of this hydra to Marci's capable hands.

[Rogue]

@SM, because I have seen Pooky literally try to die after a hammer like that and almost not die. He got wiggle room (admittedly through the structure of the day), and that’s where they strive.

Also I’m also league adjacent.

[Rogue]

I’m cool with either of the leading wagons going. I am open to hearing about cakeboy.

[StrangeMatter]

Okay I looked through Mastina's posts and I get the really weird feeling of a TMI from a good portion of where they're looking. Though I think this would be fine, but the best thing to come from their flip for what I think is only if they flip red and that part I'm less sure on alignment.

[StrangeMatter]

I'm very nervous of it possibly just being a confident town problem that is something that I specifically know is something LLD does a lot as town.

[The Bombay]

Probably going to leave the reigns of this hydra to Marci's capable hands.

I'm very nervous of it possibly just being a confident town problem that is something that I specifically know is something LLD does a lot as town.

Vote T3 with me then.

[mastina]

I dont believe for a second that a role based on Ashe is just a messenger
Mainly because it doesn't fit at all. And since I am also a League character and have first hand info on how they designed roles based on said champions abbilities. I highly doubt that what they thought would be appropriate for Ashe.

Oh I agree it's a terrible fit!
I'm actively active on AsheMains. The reason I chose that subreddit is because I am a member there and I post there a lot. (Mostly on build-related things.)

I'm literally an Ashe onetrick and I know everything about her pretty much. Her lore, her abilities, her builds, her role in the game, everything.

I agree that the mods did AsheMains a huge disservice with the shitty messenger that doesn't fit well with the chosen subreddit.

Ashe's ult would be a good roleblocker.
Ashe's ult could also be a form of aoe ability, spreading to multiple characters.
Ashe's hawkshot could be an investigative.
Ashe's hawkshot

can

be used to give information to others--but messenger isn't what I think of when I think of giving information. When I think of giving information, I think of amnesiac investigative, the role that investigates a player and sends the results to a different player.
Ashe's volley could be used as an aoe ability, maybe tagging multiple players.
Ashe's ranger focus could give her multitasking, stacking abilities.
Ashe's passive could be used as a Delayer, delaying actions.
Ashe's passive could be used as a roleblocker.

Ashe could act as a vig, due to being an adc designed to dish out the damage.

Ashe is the kiting queen, so she could be a commuter or a hider from evading her opponents.

Ashe is highly supportive and utility-based with a secondary flex into being a support, so she could give her teammates something. She could serve as an enabler, or she could provide buffs, like role upgrades, extra shots, give multitasking, be an inventor, etc.

Ashe is one of the biggest (I forget the term, Warmother?) of the Freljord, she literally started from nothing and built up a tribe through welcoming others, diplomacy, kindness but not softness, her wits, compassion, but firmness. From this, she could be a neighborizer based on building her community up, or be some kind of firm commander, or something like that.

Ashe's meta build until this season was Shieldbow, so she could have a 1x bulletproof from a shieldbow being procced. This also works for the previously meta wit's end for similar reasons.
Ashe could gain a power after having been targeted, similarly working off of Shieldbow's shield being procced, making her something of a reflexive role.

Ashe's meta rune is lethal tempo which gives attack speed and now also bonus range, which is another way Ashe could get multitasking.

Ashe usually takes biscuits, which could function as an activated 1x bulletproof.

Ashe with approach velocity could be a hider or tracker or follower or similar, hunting down a target.

Ashe with the poke-build using arcane comet could be some form of delayed role, where she uses something one night and gets something else on a following night, and/or a role that ramps up with time to represent her cdr going down. (That also works for a ramping up passive/damage from the crit build come to think of it.)

AsheMains as a reddit about Ashe could have involved any number of things based on the images, clips, fanart, discussion, and guides involved.

But the mods didn't give any of that.

They gave an extremely gated messenger, and an even heavier gated town crier requiring three successful uses of the gated messenger and then that role itself being three-shot. And they tied it haphazardly to hawkshot.

I agree with you that it's a shitty role, it's not a good fit.
I agree with you that the mods could do a lot more with AsheMains than they did.
I agree with you that the mods shouldn't have given this role to me given what I submitted.
I agree with you that it's not very well-designed.

But no matter how much you don't like it--that's exactly what the mods gave me.

You might think I'm lying, but I'm not. It's precisely what the mods did give to me. It doesn't matter if you think it's not a good fit--it matters what the mods thought. And they apparently thought it was acceptable. I disagree with them. I don't think it's a good fit at all. But no matter how much I disagree with their decision, it won't change my role.

I'm r/AsheMains, my abilities are,
Hawkshot (E) messenger, sending a letter to a player each night with a 100-character limit, where three successful letters unlocks the public crier ability (also gated to 100 characters),
And a public crier ability, which has 3 shots.

That's it. It doesn't fit well. But it's what the mods gave me, fittingness be damned.

Anyone who thinks mastina actually got a 100 character messenger role as her only real power, raise your hand. Look at the flipped roles, look at the other claims on the table. Then look at that. One of these things is not like the others...

And yet, that's exactly what I got. Nothing more.

And the proof?

In both what I would claim if I had anything (I'd claim any investigative power I have and provably did not investigate jjh; I'd claim any protective power I had; I'd claim any blocking power I had and provably did not roleblock jjh; that doesn't leave a whole lot which I could have beyond what I claimed, now, does it?), and from the way night went, and from my target selection, and from meta.

I don't fucking lie about my role regardless of my alignment.

So when I say that all I have is the messenger role (with the crier later).

It's all I have.

Also note that whatever new information I brought to the table (and also note that nothing I claimed was ever a lie or retracted; I just only claimed what town needed to know off the bat to optimize information from reactions) wasn't ever actually used to reevaluate her stance.

Wrong.
I did reevaluate the read off of the new information--
I came out with an even stronger scumread on you because of the claim being

more

likely to be a scumclaim, rather than less.

I'll take another show of hands from anyone in this game who thinks they could pocket LLD.

There ain't a player onsite immune to being pocketed in a neighborhood. Not even LLD is immune to it.

The power of scum to pocket in neighborhoods is

that

strong.

It feels like you are using that line by the mods to say that "confirmed scum" Ivan would never have a reason to lie about any part of his role.

If every role in the game is designed initially as a town role, why would scum have any reason to lie about the town parts of their role?

The only parts the scum have a reason to lie about are the modifications to the town role that make it a scum role.

Ergo, Ivan's claim is going to be mostly true--but leaving out crucial scum-oriented details of the role, a lie by omission.

The Ivan, LLD, Shiro voting block does not look like they want to go in with me on Cakez or T3, and this is fine.

Ivan is scum and as Ivan is scum, Ivan is disincentivized from voting scum and incentivized to vote town.

LLD and Shiro are both hard-pocketed by Ivan and thus will not vote scum and are guaranteed to vote town.

Voting with them is a resignation that you cannot eliminate scum, and fuck that. By the numbers, even with two townies hard-scumsiding due to being hard-pocketed, the town still can eliminate scum.

It's only if you DO resign that it becomes impossible to eliminate scum, as a self-fulfilling prophecy.

If you give up on eliminating scum, then a scum elimination becomes impossible thanks to Shiro and LLD; if you

don't

give up on eliminating scum, then a scum elimination is suddenly possible.

[mastina]

catchup in 30 mins

i did not get a message saying that i lost my box.

i'm observing

r/chessporn

Okay,

The Bombay /
marcistar /
Lukewarm:

You were right about T3 being scum here. (Apologies to StrangeMatter as that means you're town.)

T3 is a player who, rather extensively, knows metas. He is one of THE heaviest users of meta onsite. He is one of THE biggest players on researching meta and he knows my meta both from having played with me extensively and from having done research beyond what he's seen. He's seen me both as scum (speaking of that game,

Luke

, you should really remember my performance as scum in that game when thinking about the chances I'm scum in

this

game) and countless times my towngame.

T3 said that he was catching up.

And then?

...And then nothing.

And then he gave nothing.

He claimed his reddit flavor submission (with an implication of being the other chess player that he didn't explicitly state altho the implication is strong/obvious enough that it can safely be assumed, but the lack of explicit unambiguousness makes the claim more sketchy), he claimed his box status, and said he was observing.

And nothing else.

Why is T3 doing nothing here?

...Because I am the lead wagon and Suripoko is the second lead wagon and we're both town.

And T3 knows that if he defended me, that I wouldn't be voted out.
T3 can't call me scum without it being a scumclaim, but he also can't be active and not say anything without it being a scumclaim.
So what does him doing nothing, being inactive, mean?

It means that he knows he can't be active without clearing me and he doesn't want to clear me and because he wants the wagons on town to remain, since he knows that if he conftowns me, that it increases the odds of a scum elimination going through.

[mastina]

Deadline: January 17, 1:00 PM US Eastern Time.
Countdown: (expired on 2022-01-17 10:00:00)
Mod Notes:

SirCakez is v/la until 1/17

MODS: Given SirCakez is V/LA until the deadline and plurality rules are in effect, can we get a deadline extension? Having a player be V/LA for literally 3/7 of the provided days is unfair to everyone involved as it's a player inactive for literally half the time, and you're not prodding or replacing the slot that's inactive for half of the day phase due to the V/LA.

An extension seems fair.

[mastina]

I’m cool with either of the leading wagons going. I am open to hearing about cakeboy.

Okay so notty could potentially actually be scum here because notscience should absolutely

not

be okay with my elimination here.

Yes, I get notty being okay with Suripoko as an elimination.

But notscience knows my towngame. He literally was scumreading me wrongly for like half of Pokemon UPick and was thoroughly embarrassed when I ended up nightkilled instead of conftown because of just how obvtown I was.

It's not a full read reversal because notscience could be a fucking moron who didn't learn from history and in spite of having made this EXACT mistake last time is making it again.

But given that I'd expect notscience to learn from his past mistakes and not make them again, being okay with my elimination when this is self-evidently my towngame is inherently damaging to my prior townread there.

I still think the scumteam is {SirCakez, Ivan, T3}, but if one of those were wrong, with notty's play here at end of day, Rogue would be near the top of my scum candidates.

[Shiro]

Vote:Suripoko

[jjh927]

Remind me of your incentive to correctly read and point out Mafia here.