Open 843 - Divide & Conquer - Game Over!

[Todoroki]

i do agree that todoroki looks kinda like scum who had assumed we'd yeet from 6 first and is now going "oh shit this really wasnt the plan" (im actually not sure anyone's explicitly framed it this way but i think someone hinted at it). i dont really understand prism's "practically a scumclaim" that he saw in todoroki's post, i think this mightve been an exaggeration?

im not really on-board with the consensus innocentvillager townread -- mostly because he very clearly doesnt believe the solve he's pushing. i think he's town because he looks townier than todoroki and only one of them is scum; but no i very much dont think there's any "yeah these posts have to come from town" in his iso.

People think we're scum and posts like this exist, lmao

[mc esther]

im assuming you take issue with "i think inno's town even though he doesnt believe his own solve". town do this, it's a little bit odd this late in the day, but i can still see it from town (especially as a way of trying to force low-content slots like me and dunn to do something).

[Todoroki]

I have three problems with it.

1) I don't really understand how you missed the scumclaim when it was literally me and norwee joking about being scum and saying who we should have put in small hood?
2) You are hedging very heavily on us
3) You are hedging on us, leaving an avenue open to swap your read to IV tomorrow after we flip green. You are already laying the preemptive groundwork, and for someone who isn't as confident in IV being town you sure have a weird way of trying to chase that read down. I'm aware this last point is hypocritical given my lack of presence thus far, and that's true! I did sit back more than normal this game.

[Todoroki]

Like, you could say I'm hedging by not voting you too which is a totally fair point to make! Or that I'm not really pushing IV (which should frankly hint that I'm town, IV knows scum-me LOVED the chance to get in his head and twist him in circles), and instead letting him do his own thing and think about what he's posted.

My issue with Prism which wasn't clear in my last post due to formatting, is there's multiple instances of Prism explicitly reaching out to me (albeit one was kinda a negg), and that's really weird given our dynamic? Typically it's the other way, me reaching out to Prism and us clashing pretty heavily. So to see a reachout from Prism, multiple in fact, sets off alarm bells in my head. I do think Prism has a point in it being out of the norm for me to not lock in to a reckless 1v1, but I also think it's in part due to the playerlist (which Prism should know, while there are a lot of familiar faces in this game this is a fairly different subset than typical). I'm going both ways on the read.

[mc esther]

yes, i dont have a hard read d1, you got me. im very obviously not hedging in preparation for tomorrow, and i think you can tell me why i wouldnt need to do that.

[Brighter Puppy]

its pretty simple. if u consider the three player group to be in a pseudo ELO final 3, then it should be pretty easy to sort between the two other players in ur group to find scum. Instead u appear to hedge when it really shouldn't be that difficult to go at least "yeah im way more town on X" and not how u are presenting it where it looks like ur reads can swing either way.

[Brighter Puppy]

to put it in another way. U know u have a fifty fifty shot of finding scum in ur own group if ur town, and yet u don't treat it as one.

[mc esther]

then it should be pretty easy to sort between the two other players in ur group to find scum

well im bad and it's not easy. "it's easy because it's 50/50" is a really weird assumption imo. at what point does it stop being easy, should we also be suspicious of everyone who doesnt have a hard read at 33/33/33?

[Brighter Puppy]

has nothing to do with a hard read. its ur approach that says u can go either direction with easy. U already set ground work to move to Innocentvillager if u need to.
It doesn't look like town waffleness

[mc esther]

U already set ground work to move to Innocentvillager if u need to.

okay, two people have said this now and im still sitting here like "this literally doesnt make any sense given the gamestate, i cannot fathom suggesting this as either alignment". does anyone else actually believe this, do i need to explain?

[Todoroki]

Hello, Lukewarm has returned.

Just looking at 472 and 474 back to back has kinda turned my read around in the small hood -

Notty was leaning MC being Scum and I was leaning IV being scum before that. But we have synched on MC being the scum in the small hood.

----

We are no longer synched on the big hood though :/

Notty thinks that it is Prism. And I kinda did too, until Prism's push on me earlier today. But it really did feel like Prism really believed the push.

[Todoroki]

So prism jumped from a scum read to a town lean for me today

[mc esther]

tbh it's not even true that im waffling (and im sometimes a pretty waffly player!), i explicitly stated which i think is maf over the other and have consistently been voting them since literal start of day (with a brief diversion to the 6-group).

[Brighter Puppy]

U already set ground work to move to Innocentvillager if u need to.

okay, two people have said this now and im still sitting here like "this literally doesnt make any sense given the gamestate, i cannot fathom suggesting this as either alignment". does anyone else actually believe this, do i need to explain?

wouldnt this be the time to push idea me and todaroki are teamed.
wouldn't town think this

[mc esther]

hehe okay i like the "arent you going to accuse me?" game~

ive thought about it, and sure, "oh shit my buddy might lose a 1 vs. 1" is a plausible reason to start making absurd claims like this. it seems a little too blatant though, like, i dont think i'd do that for my buddy. despite my strong language, i need to accept that sometimes people are just wrong.

[Brighter Puppy]

Okay, just feels kind of weird u just take what i or todoraki kind of been saying at face value. Rather than be sorting. or maybe i just don't see it cause ur just thinking it not expressing it.
Just seems like ur treating both of us as town. At least i feel ur treating me as town

[Todoroki]

have consistently been voting them since literal start of day (with a brief diversion to the 6-group)

Why did you even vote us originally?

After you voted us you said that you had a reason in 288, but now you seem to be just tacking onto the stuff that Prism set up 474.

If you had a solid reason to vote us, why are you not adding it to the discussion? If you didn't have a solid reason to vote us, why did you imply that you did?

[Todoroki]

Esther, I'm assuming that the vote comes from wanting to do group of 3.

Can you talk about the two options more explicitly FYPOV?

no! probably later; i mean, i suppose i have to eventually.

Wait. Maybe I just parsed this incorrectly.

My first read through was

"I'm assuming that the vote comes from wanting to do group of 3" --- "no!"

"Can you talk about the two options more explicitly" --- "probably later; i mean, i suppose i have to eventually."


But looking at it again, that all may have been answering the second part.

----

I would still like to know why you originally voted us back in 288, but my other questions can probably be ignored.

[Todoroki]

Although, if you did not have a reason to vote us before my exchange with Prism, This looks pretty disingenuous:

have consistently been voting them since literal start of day (with a brief diversion to the 6-group).

[mc esther]

yeah, i was answering the second part.

the revote was to see if std would unvote as the wagon piled up.

[innocentvillager]

My first game we limmed big pool and won.
Second game we limmed in small pool and lost.

Both were day 1 scumflips.

- Norwee

truly irrefutable evidence to kill big hood

[innocentvillager]

Like, you could say I'm hedging by not voting you too which is a totally fair point to make! Or that I'm not really pushing IV (which should frankly hint that I'm town, IV knows scum-me LOVED the chance to get in his head and twist him in circles), and instead letting him do his own thing and think about what he's posted.

okay imma be honest i was sort of gonna keep it private but there's no point anymore

this is prolly like the main argument for me townleaning you / ur not really here or trying to pocket me or anything like that

i remember when we were hydraing together u wanted to go HARD in that familiar plist if we were scum and Bulge straight TRd you for not doing that, lmao. My guess is you two would've gone harder had you rolled scum.

i weakly feel worse because you've mentioned this yourself but i still think you would've forced more thread presence as scum/i believe Luke to an extent when he says he would've pushed you to post more as well

[innocentvillager]

i don't really have an opinion on mc's posting other than i don't get townpings from it but ill relook that slot later when im not busy and dead

[Todoroki]

I mean I feel like I’ve demonstrated an adequate understanding of why I get townread in most games, I just sometimes have a hyper inflated view of how town I should be for it

[mc esther]

At least i feel ur treating me as town

i missed this, but... yes? idk if im null-town or null-maf on you, there's a lot of wifom surrounding the "holy shit you are so tight with todoroki, is this actually a realistic scumteam?" issue. but in either case, youre not "so obviously mafia that there's nothing to be gained in treating you as town". im also just kinda relieved to have an exchange with you where i feel i get what's being said (even if i dont necessarily get why you say some of it).

Just seems like ur treating both of us as town.

i dont think im treating todoroki as town, but i see why someone might come away with that impression. the point of statements like "and i think you can tell me why i wouldnt need to do that" is that the social fiction of their towniness kinda breaks down if they directly engage. either they hard-180 on a read which they must acknowledge was a little flimsy, or they double down on a bad position where they must know better.

_

i probably come across as quite humourless this game. im not (imo at least), but sure, my sense of humour doesnt match the humour on this site at all.