open 841: concgratulations to the winners and losers

[Alyssa The Lamb]

considering you have like no meta on me it is odd to me that you are calling it odd


i found the way you were looking at the game and appraoching it similar to mine - except im much more proactive and you are reactive

I actually can believe this

[Kaiji]

people who have next to no knowledge about how I play the game, when experiencing me with a town PM, either hard scumread me or just never really understand how they should be reading me

it's very rare that people hard townread me when I'm not fully engaged into a game without being pretty familiar with how I play the game, which is almost always from players I've played in both a town and a scum hydra with in the past

it's different if the read is mostly based on flow trap, but strong town reads on me at that stage in the game is... at best very odd

Ok I can definitely explain this - I have a very uncommon approach to how I read people(and people who have played with me will confirm). I myself am *also* a player who gets scumread when people don't have experience with me(heyo) fwiw so i understand that.

I typically look at how complex a townie's thought process is - that is, are they actually updating their reads via new information. Fabricated reads do not build upon a foundation unless a player is dedicated hard to the game and experienced - and on top of that, your archaetype of player reminded me of my own and I thought that was fairly indicative of being the same alignment.


And this doesn't require a high amount of posts - I have sorted low posters this way, *including not mafia*(to >rand success. still working on making it 100%) - so before you bring up you are disengaged.



but there is a glimmer of truth in what you're seeing in that i exaggerate the confidence of reads and that isn't my true confidence - I don't like to be wishy washy as that tends to get people not to sheep you . But Once prompted i am extremely honest so LOL

[Kaiji]

also would u like to bounce ideas off sometime this weekend, I am simply descending more into being lost here.

I can try but for what it's my reads have been bad lately and I'm extremely burnt

catboi I remembered I had good reasoning to keep him as town - if im wrong then f u gira im never trusting that kinda tell again and BoPing you forever

Uh...okay then? Why were you scumreading me in the first place?

because midway flipped town and im basically malding and lashing out anywhere i can find a new solve

[Kaiji]

sorry for being so wordy and long winded i feel like its a pain to read through my posts sometimes because i overexplain but i just dont want to be misunderstood :<

[Kaiji]

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I guess I'd have to see how you operate from a scum perspective to understand it properly since that type of playstyle also seems like it would work less and less well as scum skill increases

[Kaiji]

my scum mindset is typically to have a few cornerstone pieces and make sure i can control them and when choosing nightkills I prioritize people with good dayplay over mechs except for stuff like a cop.


thus why skitter not dying is either indicative of me and skitter being SvS or just me being town.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I meant as me being scum

sorry, that was ambiguous

[Kaiji]

the tactics i do use as scum do overlap with things common to my towngame - i dont wanna make it easy to catch me as scum yknow? but once you go past the midgame its much easier to read me IMO even if i replace in because of the way I parse the game.

[Kaiji]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhh ok no i get it yea

[Kaiji]

i'm also likely to disregard a possible save occuring, such as a BPV even - so that avenue can be discarded for me. i have a recent scumgame where I state this in spec chat after I sac myself to give my partners towncred(also another thing - I prefer to sac early so i dont spew due to my playstyle as scum being aimed at mimicing my townplay and thus being very vulnerable to spew)

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=88156 here is one

and
Subject: Mini Normal 2245: LJITGBSMoD [dead pt]

yeah i gave up bc i didn't wanna spew. Fighting out of that would have just lost the game

from scum pt:
Subject: Mini Normal 2245: LJITGBSMoD [scum pt]

They're pr and have wim

Killing the WIM is the best option here

Subject: Mini Normal 2245: LJITGBSMoD [scum pt]

3 down and a nightkill path to the end!!

we can no kill to pretend one of yall is a protective
but like - yeah!
we got this

Alice clear kinda sux but hellbus is viable here

Subject: Mini Normal 2245: LJITGBSMoD [scum pt]

kill pr first in case theyre bluffing the shot count.

i didnt explicitly say it in the scum pt but the townie wim players happened to line up with the PRs lol

ok maybe this uh disproved my mindset id have as scum but this is a bad comparison due to midway's place in thegamestate vs the kills i made there xD

but the last quote shows i wanted scummates to just shoot pr despite believing last town PR was a protective as testing for protective = good for me, as it is info + most setups dont allow double protection on a target esp if they are clear



ok yea

[Kaiji]

and Jolyne is another one of my alts lol

[Kaiji]

now "why is kaiji all focused on proving they are town moreso than hunting scum right now"

well glad you asked kaiji,

the answer to that is I see people angling to eliminate me possibly and I want to prevent that.

i always do this as town(well sometimes scum too.. listen a lot of what i do is NAI ) because im very intensely aware of gamestate and how it seems people are moving and try to predict moves in advance

[Datisi]

hello i woke up i bet all of you are happy about that

I also don't think there's a world where skitter's town here

i think i need to see more about your thought process here

if ppl think im somehow still scum here, I have given way too many opinions to feasibly do that + put myself on the line in places i had no need to when NSG slot was already widely at least null-town read from what i can see

this really vibes with me because i distinctly remember this one post from 2195 where kaiji was like "bruh this ain't my scumgame" and the last game i had a viberead like this, it was correct, so whatever lol

who would you confidently say is town and would bet your pride on the read?

nobody, unfortunately. i'm back to thinking andante is probably? maybe? town, and i'm gonna pretend to have faith in the read of you i presented above

i want to say 4624 is townie for catboi because it feels like his town motivation pattern, but also i feel like something like this is somewhat easy to fake and i feel like he would be more likely to be faking that pattern of his towngame than you are to fake yours so

[Datisi]

the thing i want to see now is what was kaiji thinking of when they went from "datisi is an ez read lol" to "actually nvm i have to reeval here"

also, while i can talk about other slots, i keep coming back to the idea that there's one scum in skitt/alyssa. because an all town-wagon on town!flow while all scum dogpiled on town!sleepless just doesn't make sense to me? so it would either mean that it wasn't a wagon on town!flow (so alyssa scum) or the wagon wasn't all-town (so skitter scum, or i guess me scum if you wanna go there) but ehhh did i ever know how to do vca

another problem is that it's difficult to justify flipping one of them when there's slots like menalque but

idk, i'm thinking how justified massclaim would be here because the possibility of a n3 scum vig worries me, but idk. someone talk to me i feel like i'm going insane

[skitter30]

kaiji is really town >.>
I dont know where scum is >.> i feel like one of my assumptions are wrong but i just dont know ehat that is

I feel like the slot i townread the least is dats. Its not that i particularly scumread him so much as for basically everyone, i can point to at least ~somrthing~ i think is townie (which is why this is confusing), but i'm struggling to do that for dats.

Dats do u think.i should be townreading you here? Or at least, do you think you've been townie?

Like i feel like i have reasons fo call nearly everyone town, but obviously some of those reasons are wrong because then everyone is town, so i also feel like i cant put that much weight into those reads so i keep going round in circles

I'm also wondering if i put too much stock in pooky's replacement ... ?
~
Kaiji is your suspicion of me primarily my slot in the draft ?

[skitter30]

Should i just claim ?

[Datisi]

but i'm struggling to do that for dats

drunken rant about meta on d1 during new years

i could give you a self meta ted talk on why i probably don't play this game the way i have if i were red, but i don't feel like putting in the effort unless you (or anyone else) has interest in reading that

other than that, i don't think i've demonstrated an ubertownie mindset this game, so.

why do you say you townread me the least when you're talking about wanting to flip alyssa > catboi?

[skitter30]

Right, i forgot abt that
I'm not sure that's a strong enuf reason at this point, but i'll go back and reread it

I would actually read a self-meta ted talk fwiw

(And fwiw if people want my version of a self-meta ted talk i 'll write one out too.

As an aside Catboi every time i think abt my meta here i feel like i need to rib u a bit because you're managing to be so off despite your thesis on me. This is very much not my scumgame, this is very different than the game i played in slaughterhouse, and very different than most of the conclusions *you* came to in slaughterhouse. I'm not really sure i expect you to do better but like at minimum i do think its interesting that you dont seem to be taking that into acct and are coming to the conclusion that i can be scum here)

And wrt your last question ... honestly i dont know, i'm very confused and keep going around in circles and who i want to flip keeps changing

Ig i'm trying to look at the game feom diff angles, and from the angle of 'who do i feel the least confident is town based on their own play', that's you. But from the angle of 'how does eod1 make sense if everyone involved is town', that's alyssa

And i keep wondering if i should be townreading catboi's burntout-ness, that's the reason i have to townread him but like its not so strong >.>

[Datisi]

I would actually read a self-meta ted talk fwiw

if i were scum this game, my play here would be going against one of my core principles of scumplay: you don't need to do the things you would to as town, you need to do the things that will make people think you're town.

what i mean is, some of my play this game is textbook town!tisi. if i'm not feeling like it or i'm not getting anything, i'm gonna step away and not play for a bit. i'll beetlejuice and respond only to things of interest. i'm gonna be openly saying that i don't know the answer when i don't know it. i'll vote people for reactions or just because they annoy me. i'll make flimsy votes that aren't backed up properly.

all of those are aspects of my towngame in a gamestate like this. but here's the kicker:

i know they aren't things that actually get townread.

scum!me would have zero reason to be playing like this because it would be simulating my town!meta for simulating my town!meta's sake, but it wouldn't help me achieve anything. it leaves me open to attacks for being lurky or opportunistic or not having a connected trajectory. and the only way i benefit from it is being able to make a post like this - something that i know people generally dislike because self meta bad.

risk vs reward just doesn't make sense here. scum!me would have a much easier time consistently bullshitting reads and working on having good nuanced thought processes and trajectories rather than playing in an obviously scummy way to then be able to go "but it actually makes me town!!". it just creates problems in the long run because it's just a matter of time before people turn on me (and considering i'm pretty much always either the endgaming scum or the last scum standing, i'm not used to playing towards getting saced like this and it just doesn't benefit me at all.)

"but you said you sometimes do dumb shit as scum that would make people think you're town!!" yeah and i do it when it actually makes sense. this does not make sense when there's a much easier and simpler alternative of appearing textbook townie then trying out these odd wacky strategies that have a decent amount of chance of backfiring. i'm town who's running low on wim.

[skitter30]

Ty dats for writing that out ... busy friday so i will read and reflect on that later, possibly tom night

[Datisi]

no worries. i'd be interested in your self-meta ted talk when you can.

[skitter30]

:thumbsup:
That def wont happen until tomorrow night

Fwiw slaighterhouse that i keep referencing in case anyone was curious - i was scum, repped out for reasons i dont want to get into, my slot eventually got flipped

Peta/catboi made it his mission to solve the game, and tjat apparently involved a ridiculously deep dive ovwr several days and thousands of words on basically all of my scumgames in 2+ years to try to understand what i was doing throughout the game and where the last scum was. He got a lot of ~me~ right (but missed a few details), so if he thinks i'm scum here, i kinda want to know how he thinks this game compares to that meta analysis (as i think it doesnt)

[Andante]

so like, mena is maf yes?

[Andante]

I also kinda believe catboi would be town and pick neighborizor to just "get a role" feeling good about cat puts the maf in mena/dats/kaji/skitter. I can see mena/kaji it's the 3rd I'm struggling with.

I hate the comment "maf is doing a great job distancing" umm. mena is maf. distance you say? mena just coasts...

@SS I'd love your thoughts on these 4, like, skitter/dats for maf? uhh idk

like, skitter has been around a lot, when everyone else lurking, she's here. Dats.... idk, probably just gonna yell at me for my read on him again or whatever, but mena and nsg? yeah both maf pretty sure, kaji isn't actually changing my mind too much there