Mini Normal 2258 | Bunnies [Postgame]

[catboi]

Vote Count 1.04

Frogsterking (3):

Andresvmb, Laplacian, VP Baltar

innocentvillager (2):

Reformed Toxic Player, OutWorldER

Datisi (2):

innocentvillager, House

Laplacian (2):

Datisi, Aristeia

VP Baltar (1):

Frogsterking

Not Voting (3):

Almost50, Something_Smart, skitter30

With 13 alive, it's 7 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 1 is February 5 at 10:00 PM EST.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-02-05 23:00:00)

[VP Baltar]

Frogster is playing mostly how I remember them playing in 2185, very forceful and ambitious. As a side note, I am mad about 2185 being linked since it's been a year and I'm still angry about that game.

He definitely had a very ridiculous fight with NPOM that game it looked like. Is that what you remember?

[House]

I thought i was voting Scorpious?

Oops.

VOTE: Scorpious

[Datisi]

scorpious is not present in this game

[House]

Damn, I'm tired.

UNVOTE:

BBL

[OutWorldER]

Frogster is playing mostly how I remember them playing in 2185, very forceful and ambitious. As a side note, I am mad about 2185 being linked since it's been a year and I'm still angry about that game.

He definitely had a very ridiculous fight with NPOM that game it looked like. Is that what you remember?

It wasn't any specific moment in that game, just a unique sort of aggressiveness when pushing his SR's that he's also showing here.

[Something_Smart]

Spoiler: Part 1

EXTRAVERSION 6
..Friendliness 28
..Gregariousness 19
..Assertiveness 4
..Activity Level 1
..Excitement-Seeking 7
..Cheerfulness 67

AGREEABLENESS 72
..Trust 51
..Morality 97
..Altruism 30
..Cooperation 76
..Modesty 72
..Sympathy 54

CONSCIENTIOUSNESS 16
..Self-Efficacy 2
..Orderliness 36
..Dutifulness 75
..Achievement-Striving 1
..Self-Discipline 20
..Cautiousness 71

NEUROTICISM 16
..Anxiety 2
..Anger 2
..Depression 12
..Self-Consciousness 95
..Immoderation 5
..Vulnerability 51

OPENNESS 16
..Imagination 1
..Artistic Interests 15
..Emotionality 10
..Adventurousness 8
..Intellect 71
..Liberalism 86

I took the long test, but I wouldn't recommend it. I only did it because I have a ton of down time at work anyway. There were a lot of essentially repeated questions, I doubt you would lose much by going for the short one instead.

Spoiler: Part 2

How do you tell stories?

Start with the context, provide enough details so that the climax/point can be understood, but not so much that the exposition is boring. Try and make sure the climax is not predictable; re-ordering or dropping details in the exposition can often help with this. Make sure that what happened in the climax is clear and the reason it's important is clear.

Likert questions are all 1, except "I believe this is an easy town for mafia to hide in at this point in time.", which is 4.

How do you create stories?

Start with a hook, which is the event or situation that makes the story worth caring about. Come up with some expository details and then start from the beginning, trying to develop events naturally while leading them toward the hook. The majority of stories I create are just idle amusement and will never be told to anyone or written down, so they often trail off without an ending, but even when they do reach an ending it's often not a satisfying/conclusive one.

Sort full player PoE list at this point in time:

(most town)

Something_Smart
OutWorldER
Almost50, Andresvmb, Aristeia, Datisi, Frogsterking, House, innocentvillager, Laplacian, Reformed Toxic Player, skitter30, VP Baltar (tie)

(most mafia)

[VP Baltar]

(most town)
Something_Smart
OutWorldER
Almost50, Andresvmb, Aristeia, Datisi, Frogsterking, House, innocentvillager, Laplacian, Reformed Toxic Player, skitter30, VP Baltar (tie)
(most mafia)

This is a wild reads list.

Tell me more about skitter, laplacian, RTP and andres please

[VP Baltar]

unique sort of aggressiveness

What does this mean more specifically?

[VP Baltar]

(most town)
Something_Smart
OutWorldER
Almost50, Andresvmb, Aristeia, Datisi, Frogsterking, House, innocentvillager, Laplacian, Reformed Toxic Player, skitter30, VP Baltar (tie)
(most mafia)

This is a wild reads list.

Tell me more about skitter, laplacian, RTP and andres please

And A50

[Something_Smart]

Tell me more about skitter, laplacian, RTP and andres please

And A50

I have no significant alignment-leaning thoughts on them one way or the other.

[VP Baltar]

Oh I guess I misread

[Reformed Toxic Player]

hey hey ss also has my current solve in the bottom half

[Frogsterking]

Frogster is playing mostly how I remember them playing in 2185, very forceful and ambitious. As a side note, I am mad about 2185 being linked since it's been a year and I'm still angry about that game.

Although @Frogster why is (was? did your read change drastically at 307?) RTP a big scumread for you?

I don't like that game either, I like most of the players, but I don't like reading my posts, I think I drank too much back then.

_____

I did ISOs before posting the survey and I interpreted RTP's first dozen or so pages as an experienced scum appearing relaxed and unconcerned about what others think. This is because they seemed irreverent, disorderly, and changed their posting style, combined with no indication of moving the discussion forward or scum hunting. I interpret this to be well within the expected range of an experienced scum player.

My read did change drastically since then based on RTP's reaction to my survey (which contained my PoE placing them near the very bottom) and flawed attempt to meta dive me because they made me think that they genuinely are interested in moving things forward and they have indeed been scum hunting. I weight this extra heavily because they responded to me in real time, where most of my experience is. I do not think RTP's behavior since my FoS in the survey post is within the expected range of scum play.

[VP Baltar]

@froggy

What did I say that is inaccurate?

[Frogsterking]

Spoiler: Part 1

EXTRAVERSION 6
..Friendliness 28
..Gregariousness 19
..Assertiveness 4
..Activity Level 1
..Excitement-Seeking 7
..Cheerfulness 67

AGREEABLENESS 72
..Trust 51
..Morality 97
..Altruism 30
..Cooperation 76
..Modesty 72
..Sympathy 54

CONSCIENTIOUSNESS 16
..Self-Efficacy 2
..Orderliness 36
..Dutifulness 75
..Achievement-Striving 1
..Self-Discipline 20
..Cautiousness 71

NEUROTICISM 16
..Anxiety 2
..Anger 2
..Depression 12
..Self-Consciousness 95
..Immoderation 5
..Vulnerability 51

OPENNESS 16
..Imagination 1
..Artistic Interests 15
..Emotionality 10
..Adventurousness 8
..Intellect 71
..Liberalism 86

I took the long test, but I wouldn't recommend it. I only did it because I have a ton of down time at work anyway. There were a lot of essentially repeated questions, I doubt you would lose much by going for the short one instead.

Spoiler: Part 2

How do you tell stories?

Start with the context, provide enough details so that the climax/point can be understood, but not so much that the exposition is boring. Try and make sure the climax is not predictable; re-ordering or dropping details in the exposition can often help with this. Make sure that what happened in the climax is clear and the reason it's important is clear.

Likert questions are all 1, except "I believe this is an easy town for mafia to hide in at this point in time.", which is 4.

How do you create stories?

Start with a hook, which is the event or situation that makes the story worth caring about. Come up with some expository details and then start from the beginning, trying to develop events naturally while leading them toward the hook. The majority of stories I create are just idle amusement and will never be told to anyone or written down, so they often trail off without an ending, but even when they do reach an ending it's often not a satisfying/conclusive one.

Sort full player PoE list at this point in time:

(most town)

Something_Smart
OutWorldER
Almost50, Andresvmb, Aristeia, Datisi, Frogsterking, House, innocentvillager, Laplacian, Reformed Toxic Player, skitter30, VP Baltar (tie)

(most mafia)

Thank you very much for completing it! I'm glad you did because I have exponentially more information about where you stand in the game and where you're coming from.

I hope you're town and that more town players will follow suit and complete the survey. I believe it's against mafia's win condition to allow several town players to collaborate and complete the survey together because of the threat of a town block forming. However it's also against mafia's best interest to complete the survey and provide information which can always be referenced back to them because they will have less flexibility later on.

And as reluctant as some players have been to complete the survey, imagine how much more reluctant you would be to complete the survey as scum, where you are actively participating against your win con.

[VP Baltar]

Why wouldn't the mafia just lie on your survey?

[Datisi]

completing the survey would be the first thing i would do as scum because i don't believe for a second that someone who has zero prior experience with me can accurately read my alignment based on seeing a personality test report

[OutWorldER]

unique sort of aggressiveness

What does this mean more specifically?

I'm not sure I can put it into words. The best I can come up with that Frogster often feels...showy? Like when he's 1v1ing someone, it often feels like he's talking about them and not at them, I guess? I can't really describe how I feel about it. I just know that the tone he's taking in his interactions with you feels similar to tone I felt in 2185.

@Frogster honestly most of my residual anger from that game comes from the RB fakeclaim nonsense that got me elim'd, and not you.

I think scum!RTP is more likely to actively wrangle the gamestate towards a certain way and they've been passive in that regard, so that's why I've kept a townread on them for right now.

[VP Baltar]

I agree that personality tests are pseudoscience

however statistics is not and the OCEAN has statistical evidence for its constructs. OCEAN was created by an algorithm using computer science and the results were then interpreted by psychologists, it was not created the other way around where a psychologist makes up a personality test and then pretends he has evidence for his metrics.

Posts personality test, then desperately tries to justify why NO REALLY this isn't trash.

[VP Baltar]

Right now I've got
Townbloc:
Gamma, Grendel, Galron, NPOM, myself
Town:
Luca, Amelie, momrangal
Null:
Trendall
Scum:
Lunar and some combination of the last few

22 pages in after survey, townreading two scum.

This would suggest the survey is no better than random at finding scum and is useless.

[Something_Smart]

I hope you're town and that more town players will follow suit and complete the survey. I believe it's against mafia's win condition to allow several town players to collaborate and complete the survey together because of the threat of a town block forming.

Really? Because if you look at my answers and yours I think it's quite unlikely we'll be able to form a townbloc

Fwiw my answers were 0% related to my alignment, as was my decision to participate. I'm not convinced that this knowledge can really be used in a useful way, especially since you seem to have a bias toward townreading people who complete it. I certainly do not think that two people who know each other and have played with each other will be able to read each other better after seeing each other's answers. Maybe it's a way to get a bit of handle on someone whom you've never met, but so is interacting with them in the game and asking them pointed and non-vague questions about how they operate.

[Something_Smart]

Why wouldn't the mafia just lie on your survey?

completing the survey would be the first thing i would do as scum because i don't believe for a second that someone who has zero prior experience with me can accurately read my alignment based on seeing a personality test report

Also these are both very interesting responses, so credit to Frogster for eliciting them.

[Something_Smart]

I think they're both +town.

[Frogsterking]

completing the survey would be the first thing i would do as scum because i don't believe for a second that someone who has zero prior experience with me can accurately read my alignment based on seeing a personality test report

I don't think you understand accurately enough yet what I'm trying to communicate to you in order for you to dismiss it.

The test given in Part 1 is not a personality test, at least not one you would ordinarily encounter in day to day scenarios, because those tests don't have test validity or predictive value, those are made to sell things and have not been statistically validated. This isn't giving you a type of personality, this is measuring your temperament across five dimensions. I don't care if it helps me determine your alignment, I can interact better with you just by knowing your temperament, and we can see problems coming ahead of time if all of us are extreme in certain directions. The five factor model appears like a personality test on the surface because it's simple to understand and we are used to personality tests. However, this is built from a quantitative model that has been peer reviewed extensively and has predictive value. People like this VD Basar guy are closed minded because they believe they already know what's important so there's no need to study statistics, which leads to pathetic displays like he is showing here where he is completely unable to understand the difference between a factor model and a simple personality test because he doesn't understand the concept of test validity and validating a construct.

Please don't allow people like VD Basar to influence you away from discovering new resources that are useful because it would invalidate their ego to admit some of their assumptions about the world are completely and dangerously wrong.

This is taken from the web page I linked to:

Purpose of this On-Line Inventory

The primary purpose of this on line inventory is to educate the public about the five factor model of personality.
More specifically, the report explains the likely consequences of one's standing on five broad personality domains.
These broad domains cover normal differences in personality that should be obvious to people who know you well.
Secondarily, this inventory estimates your standing on the 5 broad domains and 30 subdomains of personality.
The inventory does not reveal hidden, secret information about you nor does it assess serious psychological disorders.
The report is designed to be objective, not pleasing or flattering.
Measurement error, misunderstandings, carelessness, and mischievous responding can invalidate the report.
If knowledgeable acquaintances disagree with the test results, then the results are wrong.