CONTROL - GAME OVER!

[Andante]

Roden is town
517 honestly reminds me of me when I’m town and paying attention, like a casual comment about all the posts, but if this was a maf post, it would just be complaining about the posts, but since it’s towny, there’s reads attached, honestly everything about this screams town, even the “my vote isn’t rvs” then 522 is great!!

I was gonna keep reading, but I feel so strongly about this tr, I don't think there's a need

[Cephrir]

you know what maybe ill actually try today

UNVOTE:

not like right now but

[Malakittens]

I'm not sure i trust the timing of Mala popping in with this "case" in the first place.
Like Dunn becomes a wagon and then suddenly they r like "Hey remember Roden? Yeah that guy. Couldn't he have been bussing everyone? All focus on him now"

I mean. I think I posted even with my limited time & no access to the computer. that I been wanting roden dead from D4. The bad timing is me actually getting to work and being able to actually post something.

I mean I dont really have a read on Dunn. I usually get his alignment wrong every game I play in so.

[Malakittens]

Norwee, give me 2 more names of non TRs please

I feel like Galron, Mala and Tictac are slots i don’t have as good of an read on right now.
I think Toog pinged me slightly town earlier.

Another question. How many scum are we looking at? Cus if there are like 5 i prob need to reconsider if some of my previous townreads are mistaken.

IDK how you dont have a read on me yet

[mastina]

Knowing LLD was town, I can definitely see this as maf being like "heeey I shall pick this strong town member I wish to be associated with. Trust me I'm town"

1: LLD might not be immune to being pocketed, but she would

never

be pocketed by me. EVER. She would never ever ever think I am town when I am scum and even if she does think I am town? She wouldn't care and would still be willing to eliminate me thanks to our history, so on that note:

2: Don't you fucking

dare

call that a scum-motivated action. You do NOT know the history between LLD and I. I have previously earned her spite, justifiably so. To the point where I genuinely was worried I was on an LLD blacklist of "never play with me again mastina" mentality from her.

I made an attempt to mend that bad blood so you can

fuck off

with the accusation that it was scum motivated. Don't you fucking dare.

Greeting had just had this giant post SRing Ircher, before that lots of momentum was going towards Ircher, (obviously with hindsight...) this feels like maf going "My partner is flipping? I want the town points for bussing" like, (this is not my vote) is also setting up later for if Ircher towntells, then mastina can be like "see this is towny!!! that wasn't my vote anyways!!"

I had already promised to sheep LLD. LLD voted Ircher, and so I followed suit.

But as it so happens? I was already scumreading Ircher anyway. Ircher was transparently scum from page two, and had LLD voted a town player, I'd have been forced to vote that town player but would have stated my suspicion on Ircher anyway. The fact that LLD was voting a scumread of mine was a godsend as it meant I could put my money (vote) where my mouth (voice) was.

This is like the standard "I'm making reads and not explaining a single one" and looking back at those posts, they look to agree with what pretty much everyone else was saying.. so we just copy their reads, call them our own, no reasoning... again, this really feels like something maf would do

You can fuck off with the accusation that I would EVER copy anyone's reads EVER.

I never fucking copy other players reads. Ever. I develop them on my own. If they happen to just so happen overlap with the group consensus? That's fine. But they were not made because of others. My reads are my own. Nobody else's.

Now, granted.

I have three metrics that I read players off of.

Generic general tells where "this is more likely to come from town" and "this is more likely to come from scum" in general.

Then, refining said tells with meta specific tells, where, "this generic towntell does not apply to this player", "this generic scumtell does not apply to this player"; "this generic towntell is actually a scumtell for this player"; etc.

And the third has

similarity

to copying the reads of others: it's basically "peer pressure". If I have no read on a slot, I can be influenced by the voices of players that I trust to be town. If I have a slot as null but all of the players I think are town think the slot is an alignment, they will in fact influence me to think the slot is town. (This is actually where my Mush townread comes from!) If I have a scumread that literally everyone tells me is wrong, I will start to doubt it. Depending on the strength, potentially the opposite too (tho I am more likely to think "no they're wrong, I KNOW this slot is town, fuck what the consensus says").

And while not directly part of that, players I am scumreading can have influence on my reads, making me townread/scumread slots I otherwise would not, altho this is separate from the peer pressure metric imo.

But while that peer pressure exists and is one of my three axes for developing reads?

It's not a copy of the reads and in this game I've had like...maybe 2-4 of my reads be peer pressure influenced?

Literally every. single. other. read. I developed on my own because I have the fucking experience to develop those reads and know them to be true.

And This feels again like maf, "oh I shall blame the mod, but these 2 are town"

Mafia complain about conftown from bullshit sources that's true enough.
Mafia might raise a concern about conftown from bullshit sources to the mod in private about it compromising the game that's true enough.

But I did neither of those and pretending I am is disingenuous as fuck.

So fuck off with this "case" of yours.

[Cephrir]

someone lmk if mastina makes any posts i should bother reading

[mastina]

I'm interested in voting Roden.

I'm not.

Roden's town and between Dunn here and this:

VOTE: Roden

Absolute 0% interest in voting Roden, ever.

Y'all are literally doing the scum's job for them by voting Roden here.

[mastina]

VOTE: Andante

(Andante is also town btw. Not as solidly as others, but similarly town to Roden.

{Bell, Save the Dragons, The Three Bears, NorwegianboyEE} are all locktown of locktown, townbloc of townbloc, basically conftown in how town they are, S++ tier townreads, same tier as Tet was at. 100% absolutely town, CANNOT be scum. Andante and Roden aren't on that level.

Andante and Roden are more on the Malakittens level that LLD was also at, which is also the level catboi is at. The strong townread level, but not locktown of locktown. A, to A+, tier townreads. Reads that I'm quite confident on, but unlike the above, they're instead 95% town. Basically impossible to be scum, but not fully impossible, just improbable to the extreme.)

[Cephrir]

shit i accidentally read one and my brain started leaking

[mastina]

Can we fucking lose the phrase "bring receipts" yet?

I don’t even know what that means.

Basically, backing an accusation with the proof behind the accusation, and the proof being extensive, covering not just one area, but a full list of areas. Most commonly, multiple games, but can be multiple days in a single game from multiple players.

At least that's how I use it.
(I'm pretty terribly at following through on giving receipts tho so secretly every time I offer I'm hoping nobody actually takes me up because while I would never lie and I genuinely

can

get the receipts...that's :effort: and I really really really don't like doing the work unless I absolutely have to, so I genuinely prefer to not go through the work to prove things.)

Another question. How many scum are we looking at? Cus if there are like 5 i prob need to reconsider if some of my previous townreads are mistaken.

Oh it's 5 definitely and I realize I don't have as many hard-scumreads as I should (I should have 4, I only have two), but I figure that's a "cross the bridge when we come to it" moment where we'll figure out who's scum after 3/5 of the scum are dead and we have more info to work with.

[NorwegianboyEE]

shit i accidentally read one and my brain started leaking

For what reason?
Do you actually claim to scumread Mastina here?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Mastina is one of my favourite players to be in a game with. Whenever they post i feel like my chaotic mind get’s an sense of focus and the gamestate becomes much clearer to me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Anyway i want to honour my loss with Noraa and just aheep their read on Dunnstral. (Even though my own read is that i don’t even try to read Dunnstral.)
Oh and for those that don’t understand, in Squid Game me and Noraa had a bet in dead thread where i would bet on Mathblade being town, while she was sure Mathblade was scum. And Math did turn out to be scum.

[The Three Bears]

shit i accidentally read one and my brain started leaking

This is just plain disrespectful and honestly I expect better from you Ceph.

That said, mastina's locktown. She already was based on play so far, but this series of posts read as genuine to me, the emotions are right (word choice, flow, and intensity variations)

You pop at me for shitting on you, maybe not shit on your own doorstep.

-Pinkie the Tainted ??? bear.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

due to unexpected uhhh events my whole deal is abt to radically change so u know uhhh ur not clever 4 noticing it. sry

anyway i did a d1 reread... ill still kill roden but i really wanna kill ceph jus like i said at beginning of day n like curse n lld was pushing on d1 but its v vibes based. similar 2 ircher like i jus feel scum radiate u know. i cant explain it 2 u just read that iso. n then both the most-likely nked townies were floating cep scum b4 they died so...

n then ceph disrespect i agree so like u got my attn n i also think ur bad slot. if its not roden ok cool we kill ceph then.

im just disregardin everythin after d1 cuz i feel like i got deep in the weeds there w stuff. twie n val flips disruptin my reads 2 much 2 make em function w/o just time travel 2 b4 they flip n hey thats when we caught scum so...

[Cephrir]

shit i accidentally read one and my brain started leaking

For what reason?
Do you actually claim to scumread Mastina here?

Because she uses 1000 words when 1 would do and theres almost invariably not one iota of substance anywhere in the wall
Meh, could go either way, not helped by the fact I barely read them because I know the above from experience

[Andante]

I was gonna read more last night, but mehh I TRed Roden, and well... lots of people are barely trying, but Roden is definitely town, and I will fight against that lim

[Andante]

Ok, there's like 4 seperate paragraphs, and I'm just replying to them as 1,2,3,4

Knowing LLD was town, I can definitely see this as maf being like "heeey I shall pick this strong town member I wish to be associated with. Trust me I'm town"

1: LLD might not be immune to being pocketed, but she would

never

be pocketed by me. EVER. She would never ever ever think I am town when I am scum and even if she does think I am town? She wouldn't care and would still be willing to eliminate me thanks to our history, so on that note:

2: Don't you fucking

dare

call that a scum-motivated action. You do NOT know the history between LLD and I. I have previously earned her spite, justifiably so. To the point where I genuinely was worried I was on an LLD blacklist of "never play with me again mastina" mentality from her.

I made an attempt to mend that bad blood so you can

fuck off

with the accusation that it was scum motivated. Don't you fucking dare.

Greeting had just had this giant post SRing Ircher, before that lots of momentum was going towards Ircher, (obviously with hindsight...) this feels like maf going "My partner is flipping? I want the town points for bussing" like, (this is not my vote) is also setting up later for if Ircher towntells, then mastina can be like "see this is towny!!! that wasn't my vote anyways!!"

I had already promised to sheep LLD. LLD voted Ircher, and so I followed suit.

But as it so happens? I was already scumreading Ircher anyway. Ircher was transparently scum from page two, and had LLD voted a town player, I'd have been forced to vote that town player but would have stated my suspicion on Ircher anyway. The fact that LLD was voting a scumread of mine was a godsend as it meant I could put my money (vote) where my mouth (voice) was.

This is like the standard "I'm making reads and not explaining a single one" and looking back at those posts, they look to agree with what pretty much everyone else was saying.. so we just copy their reads, call them our own, no reasoning... again, this really feels like something maf would do

You can fuck off with the accusation that I would EVER copy anyone's reads EVER.

I never fucking copy other players reads. Ever. I develop them on my own. If they happen to just so happen overlap with the group consensus? That's fine. But they were not made because of others. My reads are my own. Nobody else's.

Now, granted.

I have three metrics that I read players off of.

Generic general tells where "this is more likely to come from town" and "this is more likely to come from scum" in general.

Then, refining said tells with meta specific tells, where, "this generic towntell does not apply to this player", "this generic scumtell does not apply to this player"; "this generic towntell is actually a scumtell for this player"; etc.

And the third has

similarity

to copying the reads of others: it's basically "peer pressure". If I have no read on a slot, I can be influenced by the voices of players that I trust to be town. If I have a slot as null but all of the players I think are town think the slot is an alignment, they will in fact influence me to think the slot is town. (This is actually where my Mush townread comes from!) If I have a scumread that literally everyone tells me is wrong, I will start to doubt it. Depending on the strength, potentially the opposite too (tho I am more likely to think "no they're wrong, I KNOW this slot is town, fuck what the consensus says").

And while not directly part of that, players I am scumreading can have influence on my reads, making me townread/scumread slots I otherwise would not, altho this is separate from the peer pressure metric imo.

But while that peer pressure exists and is one of my three axes for developing reads?

It's not a copy of the reads and in this game I've had like...maybe 2-4 of my reads be peer pressure influenced?

Literally every. single. other. read. I developed on my own because I have the fucking experience to develop those reads and know them to be true.

And This feels again like maf, "oh I shall blame the mod, but these 2 are town"

Mafia complain about conftown from bullshit sources that's true enough.
Mafia might raise a concern about conftown from bullshit sources to the mod in private about it compromising the game that's true enough.

But I did neither of those and pretending I am is disingenuous as fuck.

So fuck off with this "case" of yours.

1. uh woah.. sorry.. I really didn't mean to anger you, like nothing I said was supposed to be taken in this "I HATE YOU SHUT UP" context, like I read a few things and was like, I think I can see mastina as maf, let's make a maf case and see, I was just giving initial "hey I can see this" kind of reads, idk anyone's personal history here, I'd like to think we leave personal stuff out of the game...

2. ok see, what I read, and looking at the context, did not look to be how you were explaining it, and I wasn't even here then, so I made my best judgement, just saying what it looked like, I'm literally not trying to pick fights with you

3. Ok, so this feels really hostile, and I don't do hostile. The post was literally just a lot of "town. town. scum. scum?" I really don't feel like my comment to that should get this kind of reaction
> players I am scumreading can have influence on my reads, making me townread/scumread slots I otherwise would not
see, like, if there was any sort of explanation with the "town. town. scum" we wouldn't be here cause I'd have definitely TRed it, even if it's just "town cause interaction here" I literally call out reads like this in every game, cause if there's no explanation, it just doesn't look towny at all to me, looks like mafia "busy work" cause I can go quote random lines, say town/maf, and then it's like, if you die, wouldn't you want to leave some sort of explanation for people to follow??

4. and I also don't feel like this reaction matches what I said



Look, @mastina, I'm not sure what I did to piss you off, but like, I'm sorry!!! I was just giving thoughts, and considering I'm not pushing you strongly, it means I literally don't have you as lock scum, like, I know it's not as simple as "Ircher, ceph and mastina" Ceph said stuff earlier that I know would not be said to a maf partner, thus I've literally walked away from thinking you're maf...

[NorwegianboyEE]

Yeah don’t be mean.

Ok i’ve been mean to Andante this whole game, but my way of being mean is to try to make fun of someone in an humorous way or call them super scummy. Not the route of "Curse your entire kin and all that has ever loved you for doing this GRAAH!" type stuff.

[Cephrir]

Sigh.

I know. I just have a history with mastina and sometimes it gets the best of me.

[Andante]

Yeah don’t be mean.

Ok i’ve been mean to Andante this whole game, but my way of being mean is to try to make fun of someone in an humorous way or call them super scummy. Not the route of "Curse your entire kin and all that has ever loved you for doing this GRAAH!" type stuff.

whaaat funny you has just been mean?? pshhh that's sad too, but like it's ok, I've been laughing

[The Three Bears]

shit i accidentally read one and my brain started leaking

For what reason?
Do you actually claim to scumread Mastina here?

Because she uses 1000 words when 1 would do and theres almost invariably not one iota of substance anywhere in the wall
Meh, could go either way, not helped by the fact I barely read them because I know the above from experience

Didn't answer the question and verbosity means nothing in terms of alignment.

Sigh.

I know. I just have a history with mastina and sometimes it gets the best of me.

I'm glad you're able to recognise and admit that.
Could we get a read on mastina from you?

-Pinkie

[Cephrir]

My mastina read is I dont think it's worth trying to read her for a few more days. If she is scum, she will run out of energy for the game and her fatigue will begin to show through in every post by endgame.

I understand that it is my natural inclination to always scumread her and I've found this strategy more successful than actually trying, as well as less frustrating because I do find reading her posts to be challenging.

[Cephrir]

Didn't answer the question and verbosity means nothing in terms of alignment.

What question did I not answer? I see two questions and two answers here.

[Andante]

See, Ceph, I don't see you and mastina as partners, and if there's 1 maf in yall, it's more likely it's you, and the early posts about sheeping mastina were you trying to pocket her here. that's just my thought on all this