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[House]

Still at work, I'll be back in a couple/few hours.

[Titus]

Wow.

Did not see that coming.

Why not? Scum have to shoot in the townblock sometime.

I think it's enchant and Galron probably but we may just want to no elim.

[Enchant]

House is mafia.

There's no fucking motivation in forcing elim like that as town and claim "I faked lol" on twilight.

If he was real town who believed to kill scum, he just remain silent and trying to bait shot. He tried to dodge our rage by this. Simple.

I don't consider him Mason or any other PR also, because i believe he is competent enough to push bad claim with NORMAL MEANS, not baiting bullet on his ass.


Titus blatant partner or really horrible.

That's all, i voting house next day (not in game day, real day, you have time to throw shit on me cuz i only checked for some minutes and sleeping). There's no words which will stop me, so don't bother.

You fucking not getting away. Yes, i reeks pathos sometimes.

[Dwlee99]

House is mafia.

There's no fucking motivation in forcing elim like that as town and claim "I faked lol" on twilight.

If he was real town who believed to kill scum, he just remain silent and trying to bait shot. He tried to dodge our rage by this. Simple.

I don't consider him Mason or any other PR also, because i believe he is competent enough to push bad claim with NORMAL MEANS, not baiting bullet on his ass.


Titus blatant partner or really horrible.

That's all, i voting house next day (not in game day, real day, you have time to throw shit on me cuz i only checked for some minutes and sleeping). There's no words which will stop me, so don't bother.

You fucking not getting away. Yes, i reeks pathos sometimes.

Wow.

Did not see that coming.

Why not? Scum have to shoot in the townblock sometime.

I think it's enchant and Galron probably but we may just want to no elim.

Enchant is so obviously town here what are you talking about

[House]

Enchant is so obviously town here what are you talking about

I hope you have an actual reason for thinking that.

1977 is superficial as hell and nothing more than a continuation of their game long scumread of me.

[House]

Anywho... apologies to greeting and all, but anyone who tracks a claimed, uncc'ed jailkeeper that prevented a night kill & caused a scum flip the same day is GONNA reek of scum, because there is no town motivation in tracking mechanically cleared town.

The flip sucked, but frankly I have

[House]

Wow.

Did not see that coming.

Why not? Scum have to shoot in the townblock sometime.

No, the kill didn't surprise me.

Masons AND a JK being in the game did, though.

[House]

The kill being the replacement is actually a very me!scum move, because I hate when fresh perspectives fuck with my well-crafted narrative.

I wonder who else shares that philosophy.

[House]

VOTE: No Lim

(Not suggesting this should go through right away)

[mastina]

Hey House you've been around for a long time, right?

You're familiar, then, with a concept called "(now forbidden term) All Liars", currently renamed to Lim All Liars?

The scum killed the wrong mason if they thought that wasn't going to be enforced, since both Taly and Andante weren't inclined to actually vote you, but I am.

Because:
Greeting literally was softclaiming PR the entire game and was obvtown. (In the Greeting v House 1v1 I'd have always killed House 100%.)
Greeting was both
The most obvtown player in the game aside from the masons, and,
A claimed town PR, and probably our only investigative PR.
More than that, Greeting would've become a fucking COP if we had eliminated scum yesterday. If we eliminated scum yesterday there'd be only one scum left, meaning that Greeting generating results would be directly equivalent to a cop.
What does that mean? It means scum would be forced to kill Greeting, meaning that the town absolutely

should not

have eliminated Greeting.
But there's more.

I didn't get a chance to post

at all

yesterday thanks to the guilty claim.

We didn't get to do the massclaim we were supposed to do thanks to the guilty claim.

You caused the town to vote out the towniest player in the game, who was probably our only town investigative, who was literally going to become a cop and be scum's problem, prevented me from talking, prevented the town from completing massclaim, and prevented the town from eliminating scum.

So let me reintroduce you to the concept of Lim All Liars.

You lied yesterday.
You claimed a guilty on a town player and forced through an elimination on town.
So the consequences of that lie are to be reintroduced to the consequences of Lim All Liars.
VOTE: House

The way I figure it, this is a win-win:
If House is scum and the fakeclaim there was him playing to his wincon, we get a second dead scum today.

If House is town and we lose the game by eliminating him? Well then I'll

gladly

take the loss of a single game to teach House a fundamental principle that literally every town player should know and should know they will be held to, in that it should never be allowed and should always be punished.

Either he's scum having done it, or he needs to be taught a lesson as to why town never is allowed to do that.

We do NOT let town players fakeclaim guilties on town players that lead to the elimination of said town player (especially when said town player is both obvtown and a PR) and then just let them get away with "oops mb".

So either it's the correct thing to do because House scum, or it's the correct thing to do because House needs to be taught the lesson.
House has been around long enough to know that term, so he has been around long enough to know that I am going to enforce that.

If House is town, he cannot place ANY blame on me voting him or on Greeting. HE was the one who claimed the guilty on Greeting. It was ALL HIM. So fuck House if he's town, let this be a lesson to you as to why what you did was Not. Okay.

If House is scum? All the better, we get a dead scum from it.

So I'm never not voting House here.

[House]

Town mastina would recognize that we're in MELo & not be trying to push an elongation, here.

[House]

Town mastina would recognize that we're in MELo & not be trying to push an elimination, here.

[House]

Also, the game page in 1984 is plain laughable.

mastina has seen these antics from me. This is all old hat.

[House]

Also, the fake* outrage* in 1984 is plain laughable.

mastina has seen these antics from me. This is all old hat.

[mastina]

tl;dr:

Eliminate (Lim) All Liars is a longstanding mantra in the mafiascum.net community. Quite simply, most Townies have no reason to lie about their actions, motivations, or roles. Many newish Townies will attempt to lie in attempts to gambit, and fail miserably by hurting the Town in the process. These lies can be indistinguishable from deliberate scum gambits, and leaving them unpunished reinforces the behavior as a viable option for scum.

For example, Vanilla Townies who try to roleclaim Doctor in an attempt to draw the Mafia's Night-kill tend to cause the

real

Doctor to counterclaim them, thus

definitely

causing the Mafia to target them. In addition to this, scum have been known to deliberately fakeclaim Doctor with the express purpose of drawing a counterclaim for this reason. The elimination of the Vanilla Townie is then justified.

Generally, gambits are not successful. If they were, they would probably be on this wiki or otherwise public knowledge. Thus, rather than wind up on the receiving end of Eliminate All Liars, it is best not to try to gambit unless you fully understand the implications of your actions. This comes primarily with experience.

Eliminate All Liars is also why scum should not wantonly gamble with the Town's patience as well.

House Lied, and the lie directly lead to the elimination of a slot that was literally the most obvtown nonmason slot in the game who was also a strong town investigative power role.

House is thus either scum, or town that furthered the scum win condition in the absolute most pro-scum way possible.

He must face the consequences of his actions because Lim All Liars is a longstanding site policy for a reason.

[mastina]

I would also like to introduce you to this topic.

so there have been a bunch of threads about fakeclaiming, and i've mostly been in the "moderate" camp that said town should usually tell the truth except a few circumstances.

i'm not anymore. now i think town should just always tell the truth. period.

the idea behind this is simple. when it comes to roleclaiming, scum HAVE to lie. even if they end up claiming vt. they don't actually have a town role pm so they have to make one up. town don't have the same problem. they actually HAVE a town role pm so they don't need to make one up. does that sound overly simplistic? i don't think it is. i think people underestimate the utility of being able to remove yourself from the lynchpool with a good claim OR the power to ferret out fakeclaiming scum. when you lie as town, you nullify those. you add to the confusion that's ALREADY inherent in an UNINFORMED situation. you keep yourself firmly in the lynch pool because you look really sketchy and the rest of the town isn't going to be able to parse your exact motivation. but most destructively, you contribute to creating a site meta where it's OK for town to fakeclaim. and that's just... awful.

now, i thought of a few counterarguments that people will undoubtedly pull out:

"i fakeclaim all the time. then whoever calls me on fakeclaiming must be scum so i vote them."

yeah, that's wonderful.

please stay away from me.

"but this one time i fakeclaimed as town on this super dooper cool awesome gambit. i totally rocked the game and won after i got finished wrestling a bear and sticking a sparkler up my ass at the same time."

ok... first off, i really don't believe you OR i don't care enough to actually read the troll game you're going to link me to and tell you why you either lucked out or didn't really help town win.
second, i don't give two shits about whatever isolated incident you want to brag about. i've been here a while and here's how i've seen fakeclaiming go: crap, stinky crap stew, cauldron full of boiling feces

you know what the common thread of all those are? they're well intentioned gambits trying to do something heroic and they did a LOT of damage. to town.

"but i have to claim X role in order to draw the nightkill or avoid the nightkill..."

let me stop you right there.

your second guessing who scum are going to nk is no way to do things, because ultimately it's impossible to reliably "draw" or "avoid" the nightkill. that's because the scum kill is based on a confluence of SO many factors... pr's, reads, leadership, hell sometimes i see scum kill people they just flat out don't like.

just do your best while you're still alive and afterwards you can hold your head up high knowing you did your best.

"but...but...but i HAVE to fakeclaim because otherwise those other idiots are going to lose the game..."

...and we arrive at what i think is the true center of why town fakeclaim. there's always at least a little bit of an component of narcissism in fakeclaiming town. the underlying philosophy is: you can't tell the rest of the town the truth because those other morons who are beneath you can't be trusted with the truth and you're their only true savior.

and my answer is: get over yourself.

mafia is a team game. as either alignment, you HAVE to rely on your teammates. this is true ESPECIALLY as town. you're not the lone badass that's going to singlehandedly win the game. that doesn't even exist. 99.999% of town wins are through TEAM effort and there's nothing that disrupts that more than misinformation. scum already supply enough of that, you don't need to help them.

tl:dr
don't fakeclaiming as town.

for realz.

[mastina]

Town mastina would recognize that we're in MELo & not be trying to push an elongation, here.

If you think I give a fuck about losing a game when I'm mad, you've got another thing coming to you.

My principles are more valuable to me than any individual game's outcomes ever could be.

And when someone fucking lies about their role to guilty a town player (especially when said town player is a strong townread especially when said town player is a strong PR especially when it fucks the towns plans over and especially when it puts the game in mylo)?

I genuinely don't care about the outcome of the game.

I only care about punishing the player who did the forbidden thing.

Do NOT fucking fakeclaim guilties unless you are scum.
I will NEVER let a player live after they fake a guilty on town. EVER.

Even if eliminating them causes the town to lose. I genuinely, legitimately, just don't care if the town loses a game due to me enforcing the policy. The policy is something that NEEDS to be enforced to drive home why it is NOT. ALLOWED. FROM. TOWN.

[Galron]

god house . you act betrayed my trust. I had to go up and down trying to figure you how greeting could allow that restul

[Galron]

and so we kill house without getting to mastina, the deep wolf.

[Titus]

Are we seriously postulating a lim over no lim in 6p with no confclears?

[Titus]

My money's still on Enchant Galron but I think that vote out pattern is highly unlikely barring scum misplays.

[Galron]

Okay. A guy with a Titus on his head walks into a bar with a Priest, a Rabbi and Johnny Cash.



That's the furthest I've gotten.

[Titus]

Huh?

[House]

mastina's fake outrage is cute.

[House]

She's making some seriously lv0 posts whining about stuff I'm notorious for doing as if I've never played on this site before.

I'm amused.