FFVII Mafia: Over

[CarnCarn]

Jebus, I agree with TM about having cop reveals now being a bad thing. Think about it; according to your analysis and the data from the NKs on both nights, a lot of townies are dead, and there are at least 2 scum teams with an SK. This means the town proportion relative to scum has decreased significantly.
Also, Yuffie, the doc/RBer was killed. This makes a cop reveal much less safe.
I don't think a cop should reveal at this point unless the person about to be lynched was investigated and confirmed innocent (since losing another townie in a lynch at this point would be a significant blow).

[Yosarian2]

Hint: It usually a bad ide to spend too much time discussing if the cop should claim or not. Such discussions lead too people accidently giving hints about if they are, or are not, the cop.

Especally in a game that seems to have about ten million killing roles.

[TonyMontana]

Want to explain why yesterday, you were pushing the ABR wagon yesterday, then suddenly switched to the CML wagon, and when asked you just flatly refused to explain why?

My backing of an ABR lynch was mostly emotionally driven (For the lies, and him being obnoxious and abrasive) but I managed to convince myself that the way he was defending himself hinted to a more probable chance of him being actual scum (especially by the way he was talking i riddles about whether he really was cid)

When he claimed watcher, I thought that was a nail in the coffin, hence the "confirm vote", given that he was being counterclaimed by a dead guy.

He explained he meant tracker, I looked back and realised that there wasn't much reason to doubt it was a slip. I then re-evaluated the situation, and figured out that at the end of the day there's still no reason to doubt that a main character from FF7 would be anything but protown, and while I had not kept very much up with CML, i thought should he not be scum, a vanilla death would surely be of less loss than a tracker.

So there, if I made a mistake, it was to let my emotions take control over rationality in my support of the ABR wagon. I have history with him, and my previous encounters have certainly not been more pleasant.

And @ my last post: Page 33 has the reasoning marked out pretty well, though some of it isn't valid anymore. Still, it's enough for a vote by me.

What, you thought I wouldn't go back to 33 and check?
Basically, all you said there was my "Insane cop" gaffe, which I have explained since. So what parts of it was valid and not valid?

[CarnCarn]

Also, this thread could use a lot more cavebear today. It seems that he basically lurked all the way through D2 (intentionally IMO, I don't think it was inactivity; I have reasons to think this, but will look for a response from him first).

[Cephrir]

Someone said they thought all scum migt have power roles, but I think iLord didn't. If I had to guess I'd say we started with 4 scum on each team and an SK.

I'm sure there's plenty of info to look at pertaining to yesterday's lynch and ABR's alignment but I'm extremely certain nothing I find can make me not want to

Vote: Tony

for everything I said yesterday.

Also, note that he has not actually answered Yos' question fully, so I'll ask again. Tony, why did you refuse to explain yourself yesterday? As Yos said yesterday, your explanation now would be worth vastly less than it would have been yesterday, but I still want to hear it.

I'll probably look back at the competing wagons soon. It's nice how CML's wagon can contain both Turks and bussing Shinra members.

[TonyMontana]

Also, note that he has not actually answered Yos' question fully, so I'll ask again. Tony, why did you refuse to explain yourself yesterday? As Yos said yesterday, your explanation now would be worth vastly less than it would have been yesterday, but I still want to hear it.

Well the "explanation" was elaborated i my earlier post.
As for why I chose not to try to defend a seemingly suspicious change of heart at the end of the previous day;
1. Couldn't be bothered
2. Didn't think it was relevant to the pressing matter of getting someone lynched.
3. Didn't think an attempt of justifying my actions would make me more secure during the night.

[Yosarian2]

Uh...you didn't think explaining why you'd rather lynch CallMeLiam then Albert was RELEVENT to the "pressing matter" of deciding which one of them we shoyld lynch?

And #3 is just scummy...why worry about the night? Did you really think you were likely to get scumkilled?

[TonyMontana]

Uh...you didn't think explaining why you'd rather lynch CallMeLiam then Albert was RELEVENT to the "pressing matter" of deciding which one of them we shoyld lynch?

Sure, sounds dumb when you say it like that. :p
In retrospect, it prolly would've been more responisble of me to present my views more on why CML was a better lynch.
I stated I thought he was the better candidate, and how mislynch risk was a factor, but didn't really wanna get my hands in too deep.

And #3 is just scummy...why worry about the night? Did you really think you were likely to get scumkilled?

No. But I thought I would be less likely to be scumkilled if I was a top suspect.

[Yosarian2]

If you were a top suspect, then why were you at all worried about being scumkilled?

[TonyMontana]

If you were a top suspect, then why were you at all worried about being scumkilled?

I don't even know how to respond to this.
Are you trying to get on my nerves, or do you actually have a hard time understanding english.
Please let me know right away, so I can treat you with special attention.

[Yosarian2]

If you were a top suspect, then why were you at all worried about being scumkilled?

I don't even know how to respond to this.
Are you trying to get on my nerves, or do you actually have a hard time understanding english.
Please let me know right away, so I can treat you with special attention.

I'm asking because it sound like you're trying to say you wanted to look scummy because it would lower your chances of being scumkilled. That's terrible stratagy for a townie in any situation, since scum are going to kill no matter what and hoping they kill someone else is not helpfull, and it's especally idiotic since you ALREADY WERE A TOP SUSPECT even before that; there was basically zero risk of you being scumkilled anyway. So no, I'm not buying this defense. And if you think insulting me for no bloody reason helps you here, you're a fool.

Voe:TonyMontana

[TonyMontana]

I'm asking because it sound like you're trying to say you wanted to look scummy because it would lower your chances of being scumkilled.

And I'm insulting cause you are hearing me say things I'm not saying.

I didn't worry about getting scumkilled any more than any other town player would.
I didn't try to make myself look scummy.
I

was

a top suspect. Therefore, being at the brink of deadline, I saw no benefit to me in trying to make myself look less suspicious.

Voe you to

[Yosarian2]

...I'm hearing you, but you're not making any sense. At all. If you're a top suspect, then you should want to be suspected less. None of this is any kind of reason for why you refused to answer simple questions about your vote.

[TonyMontana]

It is, but you're just not willing to hear it.

I was asked to elaborate on my switch.
I held off on elaborating, to retain my status as likely suspect for today.
I gave a full explanation today. But you don't seem to interested in it.

[Yosarian2]

It is, but you're just not willing to hear it.

I was asked to elaborate on my switch.
I held off on elaborating, to retain my status as likely suspect for today.

I'm certanly "willing to hear it". I just don't accept that you refused to answer simple questions because you wanted to look scummy, and that you wanted to look scummy because you were worried about getting nightkilled. That dosn't make any sense, since there was basically no chance of the scum wanting you dead at that point, and answering simple questions was not likely to change that. I think it's much more likely you just, in your own words, din't want to

get my hands in too deep.

But hey, if you really were trying to "retain your status as likely suspect", then congrats, you suceeded. Enjoy your lynch.

[TonyMontana]

Oh, the irony of you leaving out the last line of my post.....

[Yosarian2]

(shrug) You're right, I'm less interested in your explation for the vote you're giving today, then in why the hell you didn't explain back when it mattered, before the lynch. Since it's not your justification that matters, it's the question of if you really wanted to push for a CallMeLiam lynch, or if you just wanted to be on the wagon in case it happened.

I also pointed out yesterday that explaining before the lynch was far better for the town then explaining after it, and you refused to listen, and you still haven't given an explination for it better then you wanted to be "more secure during the night", which, as I've pointed out, makes no sense at all.

[Elias_the_thief]

Vote Count Number Twenty One: The "Cloud is Emo" Votecount

TonyMontana - 5

(

Jebus, iamausername, CarnCarn, Cephrir, Yosarian2

)

MrBuddyLee - 2

(

Empking, Zakeri

)

christiano drago - 1

(

Natirashi

)

Jebus - 0
Lowell - 0
Zakeri - 0
Cephrir - 0
Empking -0
Grimmy - 0
Natirasha- 0
CarnCarn - 0
Yosarian2 - 0
RiceballTail - 0
GhostWriter - 0
wolframnhart - 0
iamausername - 0
Cavebear with a toothache - 0
Nobody - 9

(RiceballTail, GhostWriter, wolframnhart, Cavebear with a toothache, Grimmy, Lowell, TonyMontana, MrBuddyLee, Christiano Drago)

[GhostWriter]

Vote: TonyMontana

. I said this was the vote I wanted done yesterday, because of what I view to be a slip. Your defense doesn't actually help defend you for me.

[Natirasha]

unvote, vote: TonyMontana

I find him relatively scummy, but I want a claim. If I like the claim, I'll unvote.

PS: This is L-2.

[iamausername]

As for my comments about xtoxm possibly being insane, it was poorly expressed by me. I believed ABR when he counterclaimed as daycop, so I was saying that if xtoxm got a omgus guilty on the very start of the day, I saw the scenario of a sane and insane daycop much more likely than xtoxm getting lucky.

So here's Tony's explanation for his scummy as hell D1 post that brought my suspicion on him. I don't see how this in any way explains away his slip; if he thought both cop claims were true, but one was insane, why would he assume that Xtoxm was the insane one? Even with this explanation, his post STILL contains the assumption that armlx is town, which Tony would have no reason to make at the time if he was town.

[Empking]

unvote, vote: TonyMontana

I find him relatively scummy, but I want a claim. If I like the claim, I'll unvote.

PS: This is L-2.

That's normally time to claim but this bandwagon has been created so fast I don't one.

[iamausername]

It's actually been created pretty damn slowly if you measure from when it started on D2.

[TonyMontana]

if he thought both cop claims were true, but one was insane, why would he assume that Xtoxm was the insane one?

Because he got a guilty result on page 3 of day 1.
And I didn't think both claims were true, which is why i voted xtoxm.

No point in letting this drag out..
I'm

Cloud Strife

That should be enough to end this debate, so I'll keep my abilities to myself for now. Suffice to say, protection would be in the town's interest.

[CarnCarn]

That's pretty big claim, and considering you're L-2 with a relatively large number of scum, I'll

Unvote: Tony Montana

.

I still don't like the shifting wagons explanation from yesterday, but Cloud is a major character.