Mini Normal 2257: Polish Rap | Game Over

[butterchurn]

Yes, I did say that it looked like I wasn't going to vote Ger. I responded to that point earlier. That is irrelevant to the fact that these statements were false:

Of course, you are willing to vote Ger, no one ever said you weren't.

nowhere did I mention that you were unwilling to vote Ger

[butterchurn]

if you were town you'd be willing to work with me to vote whichever of Owl/Jeff you think is scum but you don't seem very willing to do that.

Why doesn't that go both ways? If you were town you'd be willing to work with me. I was willing. I still am, despite you testing my patience to its limits. You were the one who voted Jeff without any discussion (which was objectively selfish and anti-town, regardless of how suspicious you were). You are the one who is so convinced that I'm scum that you refuse to even consider the town perspective behind my posts, and repeatedly go off about things that I never said. Nothing I say has any meaning to you because you are just choosing to interpret it in wildly different ways in order to suit your narrative. If you're scum, this is just a pointless distraction, and if you're town, you're making it impossible to work with you.

[Nero Cain]

dude, I'm not even voting you. "You don't think I'm town." ok? like what does that have to do with anything? I'm voting mathematically confirmed scum and you aren't b/c?

If you want to talk about Jeff-nothing is stopping you except yourself.

You don't think Jeff is scum? ok lets vote owl

like your whole "gah I can't work with you b/c you don't town read mwe!" seems very silly to me.

maybe if you voted scum with me I wouldn't scum read you. Did you ever think of that?

[Nero Cain]

no they aren't

asking you why you kept saying that you weren't going to vote Ger=//= me saying that you were unwilling to vote Ger.

620=//=628

[Nero Cain]

but you're right, this is unproductive and lowkey toxic. So let's just let chips fall where they fall

[butterchurn]

I would like to hear what Jeff and Owl have to say and be able to ask them some questions. I don't plan on voting until I've heard from them (and like you said, it probably doesn't really matter who I vote since the masons control things at the moment). There are no mathematically confirmed scum from my perspective and I don't know why you're saying that there are.

Just to be clear where I stand, I previously thought that scum was most likely to be geraint, Owl, and then one of you/Jeff. I think from that alone it should have been clear to you that I would prefer to vote either of geraint or owl over either of you or Jeff -- they're my top 2 individual scumreads and they're both in the 2 teams that I think are most likely. I still think those two teams are the most likely, but the way that you're trying to get out of the cross and switch to a choice between Owl/Jeff instead makes me think that you/geraint/Jeff is more likely than I previously thought, and that you/jeff/owl is even less likely.

[butterchurn]

maybe if you voted scum with me I wouldn't scum read you. Did you ever think of that?

This is where my frustration is coming from. You keep insisting that I am unwilling to vote who you think is scum, and that therefore I am scum, when I have never said or implied that and have repeatedly said that the assertion is not true.

[Nero Cain]

you/geraint/Jeff

you are literally pushing for my or gers wagon over owl and jeffs

[butterchurn]

I would prefer a vote on geraint because I think he's scum, yes. I don't expect that to happen, though, so I'm willing to vote elsewhere. I'm not pushing for your wagon, you've just been acting more scummy lately than you were previously.

[Nero Cain]

There are no mathematically confirmed scum from my perspective and I don't know why you're saying that there are.

ok.

there are 7 players left in this game.

2 of them are masons. 1 of them is you. There are 3 scum. Even if you push this Nero/Ger team one of Jeff or Owl has to be scum.

but the thing also is that I'm informed that Nero Cain is town which means that even if I'm wrong and you were town that Jeff and Owl are both scum.

but like I said even if you think that me and Ger are a team it still means that one of Owl or Jeff

HAS

to be scum.

[Nero Cain]

ok w/e this is going nowhere. lets just wait for the masons to get prodded.

[butterchurn]

Yes, of course (at least) 1 of Owl or Jeff is scum. I've never disputed that. It's just not a particularly useful statement to make. At least 1 of you or Ger is scum. At least 1 of you or Jeff is scum. At least 1 of you or Owl is scum. At least 1 of Ger or Jeff is scum. And at least 1 of Ger or Owl is scum. The same logic applies to all of them. There's nothing mathematically confirmed about Jeff or Owl that is any different from any other pair of two. I know things look different from your perspective, but it isn't very meaningful from mine.

Agreed though, we can just wait.

[Ahri]

well I can't find the mason pm

so if the other mason (cough cough)

is talking to me in there

i don't know what ur saying

so just type in here

anyways I'm inclined to vote jeff

andante tr'ed jeff tho so idk

ig we have to vote in them two bc lylo votes locked

[butterchurn]

lylo votes are not locked, as far as I know.

[Hella Jeff]

Jeff, who do you think is scum?

i did some work that i'll organize tommorow
i have nero/geraint/(you, owl) when taking both associatives and individual reads into account. don't think there are other feasible pairings
latter is more likely than the former, quiet desperately needs to open w something so i can close in on 3rd position.

unrelated but i just skimmed the day-long bickering, all i took from it is that 'if you have a singular townread in the non-masons then any 2 of the remainder contains scum'
was there anything else

ig we have to vote in them two bc lylo votes locked

is not locked .
but, not keen on switching votes

[Datisi]

prodding Quiet Owl.

[Nero Cain]

shouldn't yeezys be prodded too?

[DkKoba]

yeezys has been prodded

[butterchurn]

unrelated but i just skimmed the day-long bickering, all i took from it is that 'if you have a singular townread in the non-masons then any 2 of the remainder contains scum'

Incorrect. There's 2 masons, and 5 others. 3 of the 5 are scum. For any town among that 5, it should be immediately obvious to them that 3 of the remaining 4 are scum, and therefore that 1 of any 2 out of that 4 is scum (because there's only 1 town in the group). If you have a townread, then you know the remaining 3 are the scumteam. What you said is true only if from your perspective, the remaining 4 is actually composed of 2 town and 2 scum, and I can think of exactly one reason why that might be the case. I feel like you should know this already if you're town, but it seems like Nero didn't really get it either, and you're not both town, so maybe I'm overestimating how much other people think about this sort of thing.

You didn't get a response from geraint to 169 or 171. Why did you choose not to follow up on them? I thought it was a good idea. I remember in 120 you prodded me for a response to your post when it didn't even have a direct question (which I thought was a bit odd at the time). You asked geraint a much more direct question and then didn't prod at all. Explain? Additionally, in 148 you also said you had your own piece about this (geraint) and dug deeper, but never followed up on that either. What was your own piece?

[Nero Cain]

and you're not both town,

this is true but thats why I've been pushing Jeff for the past two days. Of course, you are trying to paint it as me bussing Jeff to manufacture a reason to vote me tomorrow and to try to minimize the amount of town cred I'll be getting for finding and flipping scum but thatnks for letting us know that isn't the case.

jeff/owl/butter team GG

[butterchurn]

The fact that I mentioned you bussing Jeff as a possibility does not mean I think it is the most likely option. In fact, I very specifically said that I thought it was less likely than the two possibilities of you/Owl/geraint and Jeff/Owl/geraint. I'm well aware that from your perspective if you're town, Jeff is basically confscum. And from Jeff's perspective if he's town, you're basically confscum. That's how a cross in ELo works. Neither of those do anything to change my own perspective and it's bizarre that you think it should.

[geraintm]

Sorry. Waiting at A&E for wife.
Still waiting for thr prodded two to turn up, conversation is too much too follow at thr moment

[Nero Cain]

@Ger you are town right? Like I'm pretty sure that you are but the game ends on your elimination so I would assume that you'd be suspicious AF that Butter is hellbent on your elimination when he knows that there has to be scum in Owl/Jeff. Even if you still scum read me just ask yourself why would a scum Nero not go for your elimination today? This should tell you that I'm town and that scum are the three remaining outside of us. (butter/owl/jeff) I don't see why you haven't come to this conclusion yet.

[Hella Jeff]

Incorrect. There's 2 masons, and 5 others. 3 of the 5 are scum.

For any town among that 5, it should be immediately obvious to them that 3 of the remaining 4 are scum, and therefore that 1 of any 2 out of that 4 is scum (because there's only 1 town in the group).

If you have a townread, then you know the remaining 3 are the scumteam. What you said is true only if from your perspective, the remaining 4 is actually composed of 2 town and 2 scum, and I can think of exactly one reason why that might be the case. I feel like you should know this already if you're town, but it seems like Nero didn't really get it either, and you're not both town, so maybe I'm overestimating how much other people think about this sort of thing.

that's cool and all but like, i townread myself, it's not a slip, i wanted to make the statement as general as possible so it made sense from an outsider's perspective

[Ahri]

they say you cant have a full town GY

I say watch me.

VOTE: Hella Jeff