open 841: concgratulations to the winners and losers

[skitter30]

It was nearly entirely that

I saw the flip
I dont think you claim not-vig the way you did as scum
If you're town alyssa makes sense as scum

That's ehat i immediately thought upon seeing the flip and that all just kinda clicked into place at once

~

I dont think i do a 180 on you as scum
I dont interact with pooky the way i did as scum, and he doesnt ignore me inthread the way he did if we're partners together: he doesnt try to aggregate partner-me as scum
I dont have mena claim ac as scum, and in some bizarro universe where i think that's a good idea, i dont have a wishy-washy trajectory on the slot. I would have some sort of premeditated plan, and then either hard bus or hard defend

~
For alyssa:
- i dont think all of the eod1 wagons were entirely on town
- i dont think she's substantiated her scumread on me to justify her solve being me/dats yesterday, and i dont like that she committed to that once you started pushing it, and i dont like rhay she backed off of it today

~
If you're very set and dont think you're changing ur mind, lmk so i dont spend a lot of time writing out things pointlessly. If i actually might i will put in effort, but if there isnt a chance i dont particularly care to do more than i have

@kaiji

[skitter30]

Ftr I think the second scum is obvious by now with an Enchant scumflip

I think my PoE is pretty much the same as it was yesterday, just with Enchant being way more likely now than yesterday

Who was this at this point btw?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Datisi

[Kaiji]

I want catboi to play the game here.

[Datisi]

that doesn't make her town. idk, i just vibe with some of the things she's been doing, i think i spoke about it in the post that you asked me to write (then didn't acknowledge >_>). i also kind of vibe with the idea that scum-her wouldn't be playing this ~weirdly~ around partner slots. also, the eod1 she doesn't look s/s with flow trap (mostly some thoughts about how i think she would've taken firmer of a stance on them had they been partners)

[skitter30]

Ok currently leaning:

We no lim

Enchant checks Alyssa.

No.

My prevailing thought regarding no kill is that Enchant, if scum, just claims a guilty on a town, the scumteam kill whatever town is most likely to see through the deception, and they just need to convince whatever other towns are left that they're right and they're simply home free

I still really hate this sequence as well

[Datisi]

I want catboi to play the game here.

do you not find it weird at all how alyssa outright refuses to enter a conversation about my slot, even when you specifically ask her to re-evaluate me?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Ok currently leaning:

We no lim

Enchant checks Alyssa.

No.

My prevailing thought regarding no kill is that Enchant, if scum, just claims a guilty on a town, the scumteam kill whatever town is most likely to see through the deception, and they just need to convince whatever other towns are left that they're right and they're simply home free

I still really hate this sequence as well

And why do I can it out instead of letting that exact sequence happen and killing him the next day exactly

[skitter30]

I dont understand what you're saying, sorry

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Call it out

[Kaiji]

alyssa this is ELo, we're looking for concrete critical statements and not just sharp quips and an insistence that you are too annoyed to help solve.

prove you are town by laying out your thought processes. it isn't hard for townies.

[Kaiji]

but also i think that sequence isn't bad at all and when i saw it i was like "yeah i think this is possible"

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I mean

Who am I convincing exactly

[Alyssa The Lamb]

All I'd really need to do to prove skitter is talking out of her ass is to just quote my entire trajectory on her, including every time I said her lack of trajectory on me at all was really fucking odd

And up until today she had zero real thoughts on why I'm a scumread other than the flow trap wagon

Like, what?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

We've engaged multiple times and this is what happened

She had an excuse every single time

[skitter30]

Ok currently leaning:

We no lim

Enchant checks Alyssa.

No.

My prevailing thought regarding no kill is that Enchant, if scum, just claims a guilty on a town, the scumteam kill whatever town is most likely to see through the deception, and they just need to convince whatever other towns are left that they're right and they're simply home free

I still really hate this sequence as well

And why do I can it out instead of letting that exact sequence happen and killing him the next day exactly

It looks to me like you're trying to avoid a scenario where enchant is 'leashed' to you

Pedit i mean, again, enchant flipping vig changed my pov of the gamestate. I didnt know he was vig before, now i do

Before it was poe + eod1, and no, i didnt have much more than that before today

[Datisi]

Pedit i mean, again, enchant flipping vig changed my pov of the gamestate. I didnt know he was vig before, now i do

wait, how did this knowledge influence your reads again? just make you townread kaiji?

[Kaiji]

i dont think its consequential for alyssa to be fake targeted by a fake scum cop

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Like I really don't see how skitter ever wins as scum without hard pushing me at this stage in the game

It's not even a bad idea in general because I'm one of those players that pretty much always gets paranoia scumread by this stage of the game

Skitter very commonly wants to think through everything in the endgame and make sure she's on the right track and making the correct call, but instead she's just hard pushing me out of the gate with reasoning that just doesn't stand up to scrutiny

Like tbh if this by itself isn't strong evidence, idk what to tell you that will be convincing. I feel like I've been incredibly obvtown at multiple points and I've directly shut down several possible miselim possibilities for myself on slots that are confirmed town now

I don't want to engage into these arguments because then they can be spun to mitigate this, and that's a lot more damaging than just not engaging into them

[skitter30]

Yes

Basically when i saw the flip i thought: enchant is vig -> kaiji unlikely to be scum if there's a vig ahead of them in the draft due to slipping not-vig earlier -> kaiji probably town -> they're pushing me p darn hard for a misflip -> scum probably want to take advantage of that because its the easy win for them if kaiji will do the legwork -> scum probably want to push me -> day3 after kaiji started to scumread me hard alyssa committed to me being in her solve -> alyssa fits the profile of what i think scum were doing there -> alyssa scum

That's what i thought when i saw the flip

Pedit

[skitter30]

@dats whoops

[Datisi]

kaiji unlikely to be scum if there's a vig ahead of them in the draft due to slipping not-vig earlier

okay, isn't this something that we knew beforehand? like, the vig pool was me/enchant/catboi/you

i acknowledge this is something that i might be biased on because i tried to go for that pair and didn't get it, so i knew the vig was somewhere above me, but wasn't this a commonly accepted thing?

[skitter30]

Like I really don't see how skitter ever wins as scum without hard pushing me at this stage in the game

It's not even a bad idea in general because I'm one of those players that pretty much always gets paranoia scumread by this stage of the game

Skitter very commonly wants to think through everything in the endgame and make sure she's on the right track and making the correct call, but instead she's just hard pushing me out of the gate with reasoning that just doesn't stand up to scrutiny

Like tbh if this by itself isn't strong evidence, idk what to tell you that will be convincing. I feel like I've been incredibly obvtown at multiple points and I've directly shut down several possible miselim possibilities for myself on slots that are confirmed town now

I don't want to engage into these arguments because then they can be spun to mitigate this, and that's a lot more damaging than just not engaging into them

- idk why you think i hardpush you as scum at this stage in the game, i think i'd have an easier time selling like dats or ss (no offense to either <3). You're higher up/harder in the 'how likely am i to push you as scum' scale
- and again, my whole mo as scum is 'clean trajectories'. I dont devise a messy elo where i need to push someone with 'reasoning that doesnt stand up to scrutiny'
- can you point to some of the places you think you were obvtown plz?

~
Ok its past midnight here, g'night

[skitter30]

kaiji unlikely to be scum if there's a vig ahead of them in the draft due to slipping not-vig earlier

okay, isn't this something that we knew beforehand? like, the vig pool was me/enchant/catboi/you

i acknowledge this is something that i might be biased on because i tried to go for that pair and didn't get it, so i knew the vig was somewhere above me, but wasn't this a commonly accepted thing?

I mean yes but i got distracted by their bad push yesterday and kinda forgot/that thought got overriden by other ones ... enchant flipping exactly vig knocked that back into me

If he flipped like goon or something i dont think it would have had the same impact

[Alyssa The Lamb]

and again, my whole mo as scum is 'clean trajectories'. I dont devise a messy elo where i need to push someone with 'reasoning that doesnt stand up to scrutiny'

I'm just going to put this out there

This only makes the idea that I'm your only push worse