Mini Normal 2262: NbITGBSMoD [game over]

[Datisi]

vote count 1.08

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-02-19 12:00:00).

yeet

HockeyFan [3]:

Nero Cain, Surye, Stephen A Smith

Eyes without a face [3]:

wavemode, fireisredsir, Dwlee99

Andante [2]:

Scorpious, HockeyFan

Greeting [1]:

Eyes without a face

wavemode [1]:

Greeting

not voting [3]:

0verki11, Frozen Angel, Andante

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

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[Frozen Angel]

everyone is different so its not like town do this and town don't do that, scum do this and scum don't do that but on average I think town are quicker to vote and scum are more hesitant. In my most recent game (the one before this) scum attacked me for moving my vote within 12 hours.

I meant fast switch as shifting the mindset on a single entity without actually giving the previous mindset a chance. not because of vote shift.

Like there she first says "hockey is like someone I can't read right now" someone else dumps an idea in and they go like "yeah we can do this". seems too pushover

I agree that it can be from town, but being pushover with ideas in general like that is a scummy trait as towns tend to be more independent with their progress in-game and game atmosphere makes them naturally suspicious of other people around them for them to follow others ideas so easily over their own idea.

again no action is inherently scummy. it might be just their personality. guess we'll see consistancies.

[Frozen Angel]

Another slot which is easy to suspect is Eyes without a face who is also their current choice of vote. Sure, they're also rather questionable, but I feel that it's just the easy road for scum to go after someone who's obviously standing out for not posting very much when in fact it's more likely to be NAI than scum. The speed in which the Eyes without a face wagon gained votes is concerning. Then again, he does have a point with 355 - that is a read that can be explained from a town point of view. If wavemode is town then I guess we just differ in the judgement of 217, which I think isn't very scummy and is NAI at best. This could unfortunately also make a point from a scum point of view if wavemode is treating Eyes without a face as an easy Day 1 miselimination.

um, why is this entire paragraph telling nothing? like you're saying everything is NAI pretty much and irrelevant?

[Frozen Angel]

(voting person with lesser wagon)

Why?

[Frozen Angel]

Never called you LHF. I said you haven't posted alot of content, and even the content u did post recently is make up a list, and simultaneously dismiss peoples inquires about that list

> haven't posted a lot so I'm voting you
umm I know it's shocking to believe, but whether people post or not really isn't an alignment indicative thing, like, 6 days left for D1 here, I've been busy, like I'll definitely have content, don't worry about that lol. Isn't it better to look at those who have given content thus far and determine if it comes from town or scum? Like, just cause I haven't posted isn't a reason to vote me lol that seems like the easy way out of "hmmm who to vote" like, you're just voting someone who isn't here, how does that do much?


>made a list but....
I made a list did I not? I skimmed, gave yall my thoughts based on how people were interacting, I'm not saying bottom of my list is lock scum or top was lock town, I'm saying in relation to each other that's how I was reading people

when I'm 100+ posts behind yes I approach the game differently to when I'm not behind, and there's still plenty of time left in this day phase so I wouldn't stress over "OMG I NEED AN ANDANTE READ" it's day 1... lmao unless yall plan on ending the day super early, I'll out top SRs sooo not sure why we're worried about me tbh

I still really want to know why you had a town read on eyes so high in your list (in your third spot)

answer that for me please

[Frozen Angel]

I guess I'm warming up with hockey a tiny bit even though he is not really doing the best job convincing he is a town, but he has been kinda constant with dropping Newby tells in his own way and explaining himself

Like I still have so many concerns about this slot but I wanna see what he does later on before pursuing that direction.

then again

there aren't many slots I actually town read specifically

even if I can feel the general push is directed by town right now, cause there are many things getting pursued at the same time and it's just radiating that (scary) vibe major debtors are solving the game and all are town, so it makes me inclined to search for scum in the people who are playing silly or are distancing from debates.

so for me, my vote currently kinda has to go on either Andate which is fluff posting and fabricating stuff but has yet to catch up again they say, eyes which is actually a good vote even without much content posted cause that moves of them for going after that theory just felt so fake, and it gives a good insight about the people who gave reads around the slot without having any reasons and the wagon that got constructed on him.

Guess after that I actually have Greeting and Nero to sort and hockey to look at carefully

I'm kinda satisfied with wave constancy back there when I fired questions on him, and I liked Stephen and fire and scorpions slots a tire above everyone else toward a town lean

and I just realized we have 2 completely afk accounts in-game so will be interesting to have them participate, as I said I can sense that most conversations are being directed by town right now

Gonna do my vote here actually

VOTE: Andante

[Frozen Angel]

I actually did that post and am thinking about it now, and I see hockey said the exact same thing about his suspects in last page and it kinda makes me both doubt myself and feel better about him a tiny bit. guess we'll see where this goes

[wavemode]

We need to book him for my ESPN Live debate show then

@WaveMode are you ready to defend your boy HockeyFan?

I don't really want to vote hockeyfan because I've seen signs of him genuinely trying to understand and solve the game (for example, but not limited to, 155 and 170 and 371 and 407) and they feel more like town trying to understand people's motivations than scum try to throw shade

and I'm not really convinced by the reasons I've seen for people scumreading him. maybe very *very* early in the game I could kind of see where some people were coming from in terms of tone? but I think he's been pretty consistent in that tone, to the point where I could say it's just genuinely reflective of how he thinks and writes, and not a symptom of scum intent

oh and there was that meta thing with fire? look I admire the spirit going deep meta on like page 1 of the game but ehhh after reading those games I don't personally find the evidence convincing (and meta evidence is not particularly reliable to start with, so there's also that)

[Greeting]

@Greeting, why are you concerned with this wagon,do u TR them(and why)

Eyes with out a face

is a null read from me. In my experience, every game has its low posters who are all pretty easy to be picked on. I'm not looking for an easy elimination but for scum. I'm not saying no to voting them, but I see better candidates.

Stephen A Smith

, why are you scumreading

HockeyFan

?

This post is below your normal level of quality. As far as eyes; It’s not the post count, it’s the content. I don’t understand the motivation in making your first real content about how they key in on reps as scum.

I don’t see this as any form of AI from you, just used to better..

You're right. Well, their content didn't stand out to me that much, and the fact there isn't much of it significantly contributes to this feeling. I try to read all of the game, but I pay more attention to some things and less to other. I guess that's just my way of processing a lot of information. When necessary, I look back to re-read and re-think what happened. What picked my attention were all the players whom I had mentioned before and so I focused more strongly on them.

But... now that you've prompted me to look at their ISO again, 217 is giving me a kind of (!?!?) in my head.

Early townreads on both Andante and Dwlee for seemingly being the driving forces of the game getting out of RVS so quickly.

This reminds me of when a scum-aligned hyper poster in Newbie 2082 MafMen (actually,

Andante

replaced him later on in the game) said this:

igorsprite and pseudo interaction looks weird but i think its green for both sides
greeting seems probtown, i like their presence

Before that post in Newbie 2082 happened I used to think that scum wouldn't throw townreads lacking ground like this. More experience proved otherwise.

But, my gut feeling says that it's usually townies who make posts like 417. I think that it's more likely for town to rebuff someone's suspicion like this. So

Eyes without a face

is not a scumread, but also definitely not a townread.

[Greeting]

i agree that greeting doesn't look like they usually do from what i've read. feels less independently investigative and more, idk, focused on responding and going with the flow of things while not standing out too much?

What have you read?

[wavemode]

at the moment I'm willing to vote eyes or scorpious. though I think overall eyes is our best lynch

it's a fallacy to assume (as some have) that just because someone hasn't posted a lot that must mean we don't have enough information to lynch them. eyes has done plenty and none of it is good

to the point where it's like they're not even really reading the game? or intentionally avoiding having to participate in it. ahhh let's face it lurker or not this flips scum more often than not

pedit: well yeah, I pointed out that exact problem I had with eyes's 217 all the way back in my 355

[Greeting]

HockeyFan

, I’ve already answered that, and what you’ve asked me before (I was kind enough to repeat it). If you want to find out why I think so then just read the thread more carefully, because you clearly aren’t.

VOTE: wavemode

They're both low posters, and I do not think clinging onto LHF is a scum trait(esp when they havent been "clinging" that much on it)

I didn't think that too. But my later experiences in the game showed me that it's actually surprisingly common to have LHF eliminated Day 1 with the majority of scums supporting the miselimination and one (or two) in larger games staying out of it. While eliminating a townie is theoretically supposed to make players on the miselimination wagon look dirty, to my surprise most players on MafiaScum don't seem to care that much about that at all.

I should compile some stats from my past games. But then again, what is considered LHF is rather subjective.

[Greeting]

Another slot which is easy to suspect is Eyes without a face who is also their current choice of vote. Sure, they're also rather questionable, but I feel that it's just the easy road for scum to go after someone who's obviously standing out for not posting very much when in fact it's more likely to be NAI than scum. The speed in which the Eyes without a face wagon gained votes is concerning. Then again, he does have a point with 355 - that is a read that can be explained from a town point of view. If wavemode is town then I guess we just differ in the judgement of 217, which I think isn't very scummy and is NAI at best. This could unfortunately also make a point from a scum point of view if wavemode is treating Eyes without a face as an easy Day 1 miselimination.

um, why is this entire paragraph telling nothing? like you're saying everything is NAI pretty much and irrelevant?

Is saying that something is NAI telling nothing in your opinion? I disagree.

[Greeting]

at the moment I'm willing to vote eyes or scorpious. though I think overall eyes is our best lynch

it's a fallacy to assume (as some have) that just because someone hasn't posted a lot that must mean we don't have enough information to lynch them. eyes has done plenty and none of it is good

to the point where it's like they're not even really reading the game? or intentionally avoiding having to participate in it. ahhh let's face it lurker or not this flips scum more often than not

pedit: well yeah, I pointed out that exact problem I had with eyes's 217 all the way back in my 355

Do you think that

Scorpious

and

Eyes with out a face

are both scum-aligned?

[wavemode]

they are simply the two players who I think are overall least likely to be town here

what that means regarding their partnership and/or the setup is impossible to know, however

so trying to evaluate them in terms of whether or not I think they are partners with each other is strategically unsound

[Greeting]

they are simply the two players who I think are overall least likely to be town here

what that means regarding their partnership and/or the setup is impossible to know, however

so trying to evaluate them in terms of whether or not I think they are partners with each other is strategically unsound

I'd argue otherwise.

Scorpious

has just pointed out to me, in 469, what I believe was his perceived shallowness of my read on

Eyes with out a face

. I openly admitted to not having focused on them much. If they're both scum, why would he do that to his partner?

[Scorpious]

at the moment I'm willing to vote eyes or scorpious. though I think overall eyes is our best lynch

it's a fallacy to assume (as some have) that just because someone hasn't posted a lot that must mean we don't have enough information to lynch them. eyes has done plenty and none of it is good

to the point where it's like they're not even really reading the game? or intentionally avoiding having to participate in it. ahhh let's face it lurker or not this flips scum more often than not

pedit: well yeah, I pointed out that exact problem I had with eyes's 217 all the way back in my 355

First off. I’m not responding to this because you have me as a lim option, whatever on that.


You’re proclaiming that limming the lurker is more often successful than not. I gotta call bs on that.

The only real viable reason to lynch lurkers is to eliminate places for scum to
Hide. Of course you’re going to get one or two but saying it’s a big percentage play is fallacy as you would say.
If it worked so much than scum it would almost become meta to make sure you were active as scum.

Just get a vibe of you planting the seed for an easy mislim. Just thoughts

[Frozen Angel]

Another slot which is easy to suspect is Eyes without a face who is also their current choice of vote. Sure, they're also rather questionable, but I feel that it's just the easy road for scum to go after someone who's obviously standing out for not posting very much when in fact it's more likely to be NAI than scum. The speed in which the Eyes without a face wagon gained votes is concerning. Then again, he does have a point with 355 - that is a read that can be explained from a town point of view. If wavemode is town then I guess we just differ in the judgement of 217, which I think isn't very scummy and is NAI at best. This could unfortunately also make a point from a scum point of view if wavemode is treating Eyes without a face as an easy Day 1 miselimination.

um, why is this entire paragraph telling nothing? like you're saying everything is NAI pretty much and irrelevant?

Is saying that something is NAI telling nothing in your opinion? I disagree.

No, I mean it's just not conclusive or directed, as it's not really stating anything to push the game forward (for even yourself)

everything done by players is alignment indicative, maybe not alone but when seen as a pattern of behavior they can only come from a town mindset or scum mindset and town is not here to be certain, town is here to find which mindset is more probable. so calling things irrelevant and just not forming any opinions about them and then saying no opinion can be found based on them (specially in this case where that is all eye did in game so far so that is by itself a pattern of behavior) is either lazy work or distancing

[Frozen Angel]

I just want to mention that Eye is not a lurker and I don't like how the term is being used repeatedly to call the slot unreadable

They actually fabricated a bunch of reads when questioned

and had some reactions in-game.

If you mean lurker as not a hyperactive poster, yeah but that's just a personality trait unless it can be evaluated with meta in another way.

[Greeting]

Another slot which is easy to suspect is Eyes without a face who is also their current choice of vote. Sure, they're also rather questionable, but I feel that it's just the easy road for scum to go after someone who's obviously standing out for not posting very much when in fact it's more likely to be NAI than scum. The speed in which the Eyes without a face wagon gained votes is concerning. Then again, he does have a point with 355 - that is a read that can be explained from a town point of view. If wavemode is town then I guess we just differ in the judgement of 217, which I think isn't very scummy and is NAI at best. This could unfortunately also make a point from a scum point of view if wavemode is treating Eyes without a face as an easy Day 1 miselimination.

um, why is this entire paragraph telling nothing? like you're saying everything is NAI pretty much and irrelevant?

Is saying that something is NAI telling nothing in your opinion? I disagree.

No, I mean it's just not conclusive or directed, as it's not really stating anything to push the game forward (for even yourself)

everything done by players is alignment indicative, maybe not alone but when seen as a pattern of behavior they can only come from a town mindset or scum mindset and town is not here to be certain, town is here to find which mindset is more probable. so calling things irrelevant and just not forming any opinions about them and then saying no opinion can be found based on them (specially in this case where that is all eye did in game so far so that is by itself a pattern of behavior) is either lazy work or distancing

I disagree, but I guess opinions may differ.

If I say something is NAI, I'm simply shelving sorting the slot until he/she/they start posting AI content. In most cases I find something else from someone else that

is

AI. I don't know about you, but I find it impossible to sort all slots in the game on Day 1, and sometimes up until the end of game (though I've survived until endgame only once on MafiaScum).

[Greeting]

I just want to mention that Eye is not a lurker and I don't like how the term is being used repeatedly to call the slot unreadable

They actually fabricated a bunch of reads when questioned

and had some reactions in-game.

If you mean lurker as not a hyperactive poster, yeah but that's just a personality trait unless it can be evaluated with meta in another way.

Oh? Do go on.

[HockeyFan]

(voting person with lesser wagon)

Why?

At the time of the vote, Eyes had 3 votes, and Andante had 3 votes, i wnated to put pressue more on the person who only has 1 vote

@Greeting, why are you concerned with this wagon,do u TR them(and why)

Eyes with out a face

is a null read from me. In my experience, every game has its low posters who are all pretty easy to be picked on. I'm not looking for an easy elimination but for scum. I'm not saying no to voting them, but I see better candidates.

Stephen A Smith

, why are you scumreading

HockeyFan

?

This post is below your normal level of quality. As far as eyes; It’s not the post count, it’s the content. I don’t understand the motivation in making your first real content about how they key in on reps as scum.

I don’t see this as any form of AI from you, just used to better..

You're right. Well, their content didn't stand out to me that much, and the fact there isn't much of it significantly contributes to this feeling. I try to read all of the game, but I pay more attention to some things and less to other. I guess that's just my way of processing a lot of information. When necessary, I look back to re-read and re-think what happened. What picked my attention were all the players whom I had mentioned before and so I focused more strongly on them.

But... now that you've prompted me to look at their ISO again, 217 is giving me a kind of (!?!?) in my head.

In this post, you say that thier content doesnt stand out to you that much. Doesnt someones content not standing out make them more likely to be scum? Why are they in your null

[HockeyFan]

I guess I'm warming up with hockey a tiny bit even though he is not really doing the best job convincing he is a town, but he has been kinda constant with dropping Newby tells in his own way and explaining himself

Like I still have so many concerns about this slot but I wanna see what he does later on before pursuing that direction.

then again

there aren't many slots I actually town read specifically

even if I can feel the general push is directed by town right now, cause there are many things getting pursued at the same time and it's just radiating that (scary) vibe major debtors are solving the game and all are town, so it makes me inclined to search for scum in the people who are playing silly or are distancing from debates.

so for me, my vote currently kinda has to go on either Andate which is fluff posting and fabricating stuff but has yet to catch up again they say, eyes which is actually a good vote even without much content posted cause that moves of them for going after that theory just felt so fake, and it gives a good insight about the people who gave reads around the slot without having any reasons and the wagon that got constructed on him.

Guess after that I actually have Greeting and Nero to sort and hockey to look at carefully

I'm kinda satisfied with wave constancy back there when I fired questions on him, and I liked Stephen and fire and scorpions slots a tire above everyone else toward a town lean

and I just realized we have 2 completely afk accounts in-game so will be interesting to have them participate, as I said I can sense that most conversations are being directed by town right now

Gonna do my vote here actually

VOTE: Andante

So, can you expand on this thought of you have of "there are many things getting pursued at the same time, so most of it must be coming from town". Why cant mafia start pushing their own reads(if their partner is under fire a bit)

[Dwlee99]

They actually fabricated a bunch of reads when questioned and had some reactions in-game.

When?

[wavemode]

Scorpious has just pointed out to me, in 469, what I believe was his perceived shallowness of my read on Eyes with out a face. I openly admitted to not having focused on them much. If they're both scum, why would he do that to his partner?

I don't townread people because I'm worried they might be partners with someone else I scumread. that's just not logically sound

what if scorpious just did that to make himself look good after eyes flips? he's been playing mafia for years, he's not a noob

or what if they are both scum but not aligned with each other? we don't know the setup

or, hey, let's assume you're right and one of them is town. how could I possibly know which one it is? how could I use that to townread one of them? I would have to make a lot of baseless assumptions to come to such a conclusion