open 841: concgratulations to the winners and losers

[Something_Smart]

You feel very content to just watch this play out

I mean, yeah, I am. I don't know what else I would be doing.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Ok then, i feel like i tried

Also

If you're town, you've done a really bad job this game of showing me that your engagements are in good faith

That's not meant to be an insult, just a blunt truth as to why I'm not really willing to engage into them anymore

I really dont know why you think i'm acting in bad faith. I am more than happy to continue the convo, and i do think thay there's a chance that i'm wrong, and understanding your approach to the game will help me get there if i am

If you dont want to engage with me tho, that's fine - i've accepted that there's only so much i can do (/so much time and energy i'm willing to put in) here to change the probably inevitable outcome

the thing is

if you're town, then the last dozen or so engagements don't leave a whole lot of precedent that they're getting you anywhere in progressing a read on me
if you're scum, then the engagements are just an easy way to look like you're engaged into the game and looking to drag out tangents that lead nowhere

either way, it potentially drowns out the game in nothing to have an extended back and forth and I'm seeing little benefit to doing so, especially when you consider this:

1. Kaiji is already engaged enough to ask for whatever he needs from me to get a read
2. catboi basically isn't playing
3. S_S basically isn't playing and isn't exactly known for going too hard on reading people regardless
4. Datisi is very unlikely to be turned in a TvS world

so if this IS a TvS engagement, then I'm effectively achieving nothing for convincing anyone else. If this is TvT, then I frankly don't know how to resolve this in a way that leads both of us to the correct answer because in that case, we're both pretty much stuck in our individual tunnels towards each other

but regardless

[skitter30]

Ok then

[Kaiji]

I still think alyssa is town

[skitter30]

I'm dubious

[catboi]

I'm trying to read over and grok skitter's arguments for alyssa being scum to try to get myself back into the game and I'm not finding the reasoning all that convincing. The citation of POE in 6503 is eh, it's a valid tool but it's also an easy fallback for not having a case, and I don't get why alyssa gets indicted for "arguing against the nolim" in 6516 when I feel like by any measure we'd be in an objectively better position if there had been an elimination. I know this is day 4 stuff but it still struck me as worth revisiting. The reasons for alyssa being scum today are...the EOD1 wagons, I guess (6987, 7031)? Both skitter and Datisi have been pushing these shallow wagonomics theories which I hate because I think wagonomics is bunk and the reasoning for it seems entirely arbitrary to me. There's also the idea that alyssa is scum for pushing her (7028), which really just does nothing for me. The arg about the sequence on enchant (7115) feels like a stretch, and the bit about staying in the background (7190) also just feels entirely like a playstyle based thing, given that in holiday dance party she stayed in the background for a big part of the game (I townread he there for it, but that was because in a dance game scum need to try to position themselves to survive). Like, it's not impossible scum

can

play in the background but someone playing that way doesn't necessarily make them scum. To me the whole case is a big bag of non-arguments and I'm not sure where the confidence is coming from at all.

[catboi]

I'm going to try to read back on day 3 and see if anything stands out with the benefit of hindsight

[skitter30]

vla until like friday idk

Catboi i see your post, idk when i'll have the mental wherewithall to respond to it

[catboi]

give my enemies the good news, time flew

vote count 2.5 !

Menalque (4):

catboi, Datisi, Andante, Kaiji

Kaiji (1):

Mare

SirCakez (1):

Menalque

catboi (1):

skitter30

Alyssa The Lamb (1):

Alyssa The Lamb

not voting (3):

Something_Smart, midwaybear, SirCakez

11 are alive, and it takes 6 votes to posthumously nominate someone for the rock and roll hall of fame. day 2 ends in (expired on 2022-01-18 15:10:00)

other ideas

• did you know that skitter30 is vla on fridays and saturdays?
  
• yes? well did you know that datisi is vla on tuesdays and thursdays?
  
• one last thing: sircakez is vla through the 16th

thank you for mending me babies

vote count 2.6 !

SirCakez (3):

Menalque, skitter30, Kaiji

midwaybear (3):

Datisi, Mare, Alyssa The Lamb

Menalque (2):

Andante, catboi

Something_Smart (1):

midwaybear

not voting (2):

Something_Smart, SirCakez

11 are alive, and it takes 6 votes to posthumously nominate someone for the rock and roll hall of fame. day 2 ends in (expired on 2022-01-18 15:10:00)

other ideas

• did you know that skitter30 is vla on fridays and saturdays?
  
• yes? well did you know that datisi is vla on tuesdays and thursdays?

your hand inside mine, mine

vote count 2.7 !

SirCakez (6):

Menalque, skitter30, Mare, Datisi, Alyssa The Lamb, Kaiji

Menalque (2):

Andante, catboi

Something_Smart (1):

midwaybear

not voting (2):

Something_Smart, SirCakez

11 are alive, and it took 6 votes to posthumously nominate someone for the rock and roll hall of fame

other ideas

• did you know that skitter30 is vla on fridays and saturdays?
  
• yes? well did you know that datisi is vla on tuesdays and thursdays?

went in the mod iso and picked this up instead

[catboi]

The way cakez approached the game comes from a town cakez mindset - where I believe he is evaluating things in the start and just stops playing once there are too many posts.

how is this different than scum-him who never got caught up?

VOTE: cakez

@kaiji i read a bit furhter, including your convo with catboi, i still want an answer to the above question

The way cakez approached the game comes from a town cakez mindset - where I believe he is evaluating things in the start and just stops playing once there are too many posts.

how is this different than scum-him who never got caught up?

I actually dont have an answer for this - it isn't. And I'll honor a more thorough read for ya though.
What makes you sure they *can't* be town? And who would they be scum with here?

i townread too many people but don't townread him, and we're at the point where 'eh well maybe this *could* be town him' isn't good enuf

i don't know who his partners would be, but there's honestly very few (if any) people i would rule out

and i've been wanting to vote him for a while, been waiting for him to come off of vla
and plz answer 4011

menalque gets pushed to E-2 on kaiji's replace in and skitter starts pushing cakez as a counterwagon

[catboi]

Hm

I think my PoE from before is still fine

VOTE: SirCakez

I think midwaybear is the most likely scum out of the more "active" players

[catboi]

the dumbass part of my brain goes "what if this is all scum theater between skitter and alyssa" because to some extent distancing in this scenario is the expected play and the last time I was in this spot that was what happened and I let myself get fooled by it, but at the same time I feel like tehy'd just take advantage of kaiji voting me if that were the case. So probably not. But if there's a spot in the game you should be looking at wagonomics, it's absolutely the end of day 2, and not day 1, seeing as we had a wagon on confirmed scum that fizzled and gave way to town counterwagons

[catboi]

I kinda want to reread Datisi because I had the lurking feeling he's been doing sweet fuckall aside from insisting that he should be town because of taking the same number as pooky but it feels like

if

they were gambiting, it makes no sense for menalque to have been shielded as hard as he was and the more plausible explanation is that scum were afraid of him getting cleared off the flip and didn't want it to happen

otherwise there's no reason it was so hard to flip a 1shot vig who had already fired and who wasn't playing the game

[catboi]

cuz i have something town-ish that i can point to for the slot (i.e. pooky), and i don't have that for cakez

mrr

[catboi]

on the other hand if skitter is scum i'm not sure she unvotes the midwaybear flashwagon that shows up on page 163 give menalque showed up an hour later and could have quickhammered it

[catboi]

there's more baitlims in this game than there are available misflips so i'm not super enthused by that strategy
tbh your slot is one of them too ...

yah, I was kind of half figuring that my flip might be one of the ones that would prompt re-eval

re: voting on catboi/cakez. skitt I was barely making it to thread last week, I didn't know the exact wagons. I'm only here now because no students turned up during my last 1.5hrs and so I can be here for a bit while avoiding lesson planning

would you be interested in doing catboi now ?

this doesn't feel scum/scum either, at least not within my typical expectation of how menalque plays scum

[catboi]

I still really don't like the way kaiji played the end of day 2

[Kaiji]

people tell me that about my play in general

[catboi]

I don't like Pooky's entrance so dumping my vote on his slot until further notice VOTE: Menalque

I don't like Pooky's entrance so dumping my vote on his slot until further notice VOTE: Menalque

What about it didn't you like

everytime pooky makes jokes about how he's scum it makes me feel a fire in my veins that makes me want to eliminate him at any cost because i have never seen him do so as town.

aight -

I have a rough PoE coming::


I like:
Datisi, Andante, Flow Trap slot Cakez

I am mostly neutral on: Mare, Skitter, midwaybear

*raises eyebrows* : catboi, something_smart

my veins burn: mena

glancing at midway's ISO I don't exactly feel town vibes from him so I am not going to get in the way of this wagon.

I think scum midway spews mare and flow town here and possibly cakez scum

I want to commit to one of mena/midway/cakez here - but none of them scream scum to me other than pooky's posts which i could easily be clowning myself on.

i'm like 99% sure andante is town here and midway voting there feels like a lolvote to antispew because theyre locked into being in the awkward position of a claimed doc.

cakez as far as im concerned if theyre hanging on the low of the PoE they aren't going to be useful as town anyways due to their habits of never catching up late game so I'm thinking of trusting this PoE and consolidating here: VOTE: Cakez

midway / cakez / SS could be a team based on what i've read so far and assuming midway flips red, but that feels too simple/easy

This aged well lol

do you consider midway to be clear?

eh i can see town andante assuming that
VOTE: SS

ok

like

i did a little research

Search for "something_smart" in midway's ISO and look how nice and friendly midway interacts with SS


midway just spewed himself and SS as scum

frankly doesnt matter which order we do it in but ye


that 180 flip is a distance and we know ittttttttt

the progression here is super fucked, goes from voting mena for almost nothing to aggressively fighting for counterwagons and backing down for really weak reasoning "i could easily be clowning myself", there's no further investigation of pooky/mena's posts or anything, but I don't buy the turnaround from "my veins burn" to making excuses and pushing town CWslike it doesn't remotely feel like there was real consideration given to the content of mena's posts at any point in time

[catboi]

This is probably kaiji's towngame

At the very least if the vig is scum he absolutely isnt

This is...points for intellectual consistency, I guess, but I still don't get skitter's argument for not-vig = town

[catboi]

Mare/Menalque are the lazy way out kills that will have to be sorted somehow eventually but it gives us borderline nothing to kill today

just realized this looks weird

we get basically nothing from flipping either of them

[Kaiji]

my thought process was consistent f u

[catboi]

I also remembered that a specific point is that I don't like the push to label the vig as a scum vig -> I have a specific read on who the vig is and it is very much in line with a likely person able to have it and use it in the way they did as town.

No one nightkills IV on N1. That's not a solve heavy slot.

There's just a lot of icky things I feel from skitter slot and its subtle, which - kudos to their scumplay to not being overt - but I feel that when analyzing what I feel reality is - it crashes down around her.


I'm keeping my vote strictly between Midway/SS today.

and this whole line of thought of "I know who the vig is" line doesn't feel like a real thought to me of someone who recently replaced in and isn't familiar with the gamestate, it reads more like an attempt to try to appear uninformed by proposing a theory that's wrong and I absolutely feel like Kaiji would try to brute force that sort of townslip

[catboi]

my thought process was consistent f u

then explain it

[Kaiji]

you look and only see what u want to see its ok we can win the next one.

[Unv][/unv]

I was putting up a charade to see how skitter spews thinking shes clear but shes deadset on alyssa as her push.