MT 2263: Web of Lies - Game Over

[House]

Oops.

[MalcolmTucker]

Malcolm in particular seems to be approaching the game rather tentatively.

VOTE: Malcolm

Have I really been that tentative? I've outlined clearly why I don't think Medea's post in the neighbourhood should be viewed as particularly weird or suspicious. If you're talking about my throwaway joke then that could apply to pretty much the vast majority of the players so far. I tend to work my way into games gradually anyway, especially in the early stages when there's not really all that much to say unless someone has really stuck their foot in it.

[MalcolmTucker]

I just don't townread either one individually.

They're not vibing with the rest of the players. Kinda defensive for superficial/jokey poking.

To be fair my defensiveness is probably coming from the fact that I've basically had another player suspecting me before I'd even managed to look at the thread due to a couple of fairly meh posts from the guy I'm replacing. It feels fairly natural to adopt a more defensive approach from that POV when I know I'm not mafia and have basically been perceived as one from the off. But aware that's the hand I've been dealt.

I guess Dunnstral's posts could read as kinda mafia...wanting to know more about the reasoning behind a potential bandwagon before deciding to jump onto it, not going all in on me if they know I'm town, while also not hedging their bets against me either because I could be a useful early town elimination.

[House]

I guess Dunnstral's posts could read as kinda mafia...wanting to know more about the reasoning behind a potential bandwagon before deciding to jump onto it, not going all in on me if they know I'm town, while also not hedging their bets against me either because I could be a useful early town elimination.

I was hoping for something with a bit more spice, but this is a decent take.

[House]

To be fair my defensiveness is probably coming from the fact that I've basically had another player suspecting me before I'd even managed to look at the thread due to a couple of fairly meh posts from the guy I'm replacing. It feels fairly natural to adopt a more defensive approach from that POV when I know I'm not mafia and have basically been perceived as one from the off. But aware that's the hand I've been dealt.

This, I don't agree with.

You had some superficial shade tossed on you based on pregame content. Big deal.

How you reacted to it looked like you deserved it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

To be fair my defensiveness is probably coming from the fact that I've basically had another player suspecting me before I'd even managed to look at the thread due to a couple of fairly meh posts from the guy I'm replacing. It feels fairly natural to adopt a more defensive approach from that POV when I know I'm not mafia and have basically been perceived as one from the off. But aware that's the hand I've been dealt.

This, I don't agree with.

You had some superficial shade tossed on you based on pregame content. Big deal.

How you reacted to it looked like you deserved it.

This is a bad idea when I have bad brains but

What part of their reaction was suspicious and how do you think that reaction differs from how they would react if town?

More specifically, how do you think their reaction is different from, say, a person who is being suspected for something they didn't do and is displaying discomfort and concern over that fact?

I would like you to give me the psychological break down of your read on their reaction, essentially.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I have a secret tech read that might be a bit out there based on how bad my brain is doing today but feels really possible to me and this is a post holder for me to return and refer to this post as the moment that read began for later use.

Checkov's read, if you will.

[MalcolmTucker]

To be fair my defensiveness is probably coming from the fact that I've basically had another player suspecting me before I'd even managed to look at the thread due to a couple of fairly meh posts from the guy I'm replacing. It feels fairly natural to adopt a more defensive approach from that POV when I know I'm not mafia and have basically been perceived as one from the off. But aware that's the hand I've been dealt.

This, I don't agree with.

You had some superficial shade tossed on you based on pregame content. Big deal.

How you reacted to it looked like you deserved it.

I don't think my reaction was particularly out of the ordinary or all that bizarre and this is a bit of a reach. An accusation was made against me, I reacted to it in turn and gave reasons as to why I didn't think it was a particularly problematic or suspect post from Medea. And we're at a fairly early point in the game where there's not much I'm going to be able to say to justify the fact I'm town beyond that, hence being flippant in a couple of posts.

Fact I'm a replacement is absolutely relevant too I reckon - in most cases you're arguing on your own merits from the start. Different game when you're coming in after it's started started and from a town POV explaining posts that were made by someone else.

[Ircher]

Day 1 VC #3

House (1): Dunnstral (83)

MalcolmTucker (2): Stephen A Smith (145), House (198)

Lukewarm (1): Flea The Magician (179)

Bell (1): Almost50 (9)

Flea The Magician (1): Morning Tweet (27)

Not Voting (7): MalcolmTucker, Lady Lambdadelta, Lukewarm, Enchant, Bell, Cupcake Butterfly, GrandpaMo

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to fade a player.

Deadlines

This phase will end no later than Sunday, February 27, 2022 10:00:00 PM EST or in (expired on 2022-02-27 22:00:00).

Moderator Notes

1: If you have regular weekend V/LA, please inform me each week.
2: Please let me know if you have a different pronoun preference than listed below.
3: I will be both manually counting votes and using Thesp's vote counter. Please let me know if you see any errors.

Pronoun Key

1: House : he/his
2: MalcolmTucker : he/his
3: Dunnstral : he/his
4: Lady Lambdadelta : she/her
5: Almost50 : he/his
6: Lukewarm : he/his
7: Enchant : no preference
8: Bell : he/his
9: Cupcake Butterfly : he/his
10: Stephen A Smith : he/his
11: Morning Tweet : she/her
12: GrandpaMo : he/his
13: Flea The Magician : fae/faer

[MalcolmTucker]

Anyway, some general thoughts so far.

Stephen's read on me has been constant so far but seems genuine, getting a bit of a town vibe. He's wrong but has at least backed up his reasoning.

House's interrogation of me reading as a bit all over the place in terms of the specific accusation being made. Of course someone who's been accused of being mafia by multiple players is going to be a bit tentative. Don't think the logic of me/Dunnstrum being teammates would work either even if we were mafia.

As mentioned above, Dunnstrum's approach to Stephen's interrogation of me seemed kinda mafia-like...trying to draw out info without either being eager to jump onto the bandwagon or back away from it.

[MalcolmTucker]

Dunnstral sorry, dunno where Dunnstrum is coming from.

[House]

What part of their reaction was suspicious and how do you think that reaction differs from how they would react if town?

I already said. Tentative approach looked like he deserved to be suspected.

Bullshitting around, laughing it off, whatever... that initial impression would have likely just went away.

[House]

To be fair my defensiveness is probably coming from the fact that I've basically had another player suspecting me before I'd even managed to look at the thread due to a couple of fairly meh posts from the guy I'm replacing. It feels fairly natural to adopt a more defensive approach from that POV when I know I'm not mafia and have basically been perceived as one from the off. But aware that's the hand I've been dealt.

This, I don't agree with.

You had some superficial shade tossed on you based on pregame content. Big deal.

How you reacted to it looked like you deserved it.

I don't think my reaction was particularly out of the ordinary or all that bizarre and this is a bit of a reach. An accusation was made against me, I reacted to it in turn and gave reasons as to why I didn't think it was a particularly problematic or suspect post from Medea. And we're at a fairly early point in the game where there's not much I'm going to be able to say to justify the fact I'm town beyond that, hence being flippant in a couple of posts.

Fact I'm a replacement is absolutely relevant too I reckon - in most cases you're arguing on your own merits from the start. Different game when you're coming in after it's started started and from a town POV explaining posts that were made by someone else.

Yes. Your response was carefully reasoned out.

For a pregame, superficial, unfounded hunch.

... kinda my point.

[MalcolmTucker]

What part of their reaction was suspicious and how do you think that reaction differs from how they would react if town?

I already said. Tentative approach looked like he deserved to be suspected.

Bullshitting around, laughing it off, whatever... that initial impression would have likely just went away.

It's like the first full day, half the posts so far are basically people making flippant jokes and brushing things off casually because we don't have all that much to go on so far. Indeed one of my own flippant jokes was a direct response to another flippant joke.

Stephen is also fairly determined to vote me out as it stands. If that ends up happening then so be it but it seems like the fairly sensible path for me to mount a defence when accusations are made to try and help the town down the line instead of just ignoring pressure being put on me.

[House]

Dunnstral sorry, dunno where Dunnstrum is coming from.

Dunnstrum = Dunnstral scum

I like it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

What part of their reaction was suspicious and how do you think that reaction differs from how they would react if town?

I already said. Tentative approach looked like he deserved to be suspected.

Bullshitting around, laughing it off, whatever... that initial impression would have likely just went away.

Doesn't answer the question. You don't think that Tentativeness and concern is normal for a player who replaces into a suspected slot over something they didn't do?

[MalcolmTucker]

To be fair my defensiveness is probably coming from the fact that I've basically had another player suspecting me before I'd even managed to look at the thread due to a couple of fairly meh posts from the guy I'm replacing. It feels fairly natural to adopt a more defensive approach from that POV when I know I'm not mafia and have basically been perceived as one from the off. But aware that's the hand I've been dealt.

This, I don't agree with.

You had some superficial shade tossed on you based on pregame content. Big deal.

How you reacted to it looked like you deserved it.

I don't think my reaction was particularly out of the ordinary or all that bizarre and this is a bit of a reach. An accusation was made against me, I reacted to it in turn and gave reasons as to why I didn't think it was a particularly problematic or suspect post from Medea. And we're at a fairly early point in the game where there's not much I'm going to be able to say to justify the fact I'm town beyond that, hence being flippant in a couple of posts.

Fact I'm a replacement is absolutely relevant too I reckon - in most cases you're arguing on your own merits from the start. Different game when you're coming in after it's started started and from a town POV explaining posts that were made by someone else.

Yes. Your response was carefully reasoned out.

For a pregame, superficial, unfounded hunch.

... kinda my point.

I mean for Stephen it's clear much more than a hunch in his view, hence why I was defending myself. Your argument feels incredibly mixed up here...if I make a flippant joke in my defence that's suspect, if I instead try to mount a proper defence of myself then that's also suspect. Surely it can't be both? Weird line of questioning and kinda feels like someone potentially trying to bandwagon an initial accusation that's been made against me.

[MalcolmTucker]

Dunnstral sorry, dunno where Dunnstrum is coming from.

Dunnstrum = Dunnstral scum

I like it.

Meant to be evidently.

[House]

it seems like the fairly sensible path for me to mount a defence when accusations are made to try and help the town down the line instead of just ignoring pressure being put on me.

If you were a PR, perhaps I could understand being paranoid of early suspicion snowballing and hurting town, but...

If that ends up happening then so be it

... I somehow doubt that's your primary concern.

[House]

To be fair my defensiveness is probably coming from the fact that I've basically had another player suspecting me before I'd even managed to look at the thread due to a couple of fairly meh posts from the guy I'm replacing. It feels fairly natural to adopt a more defensive approach from that POV when I know I'm not mafia and have basically been perceived as one from the off. But aware that's the hand I've been dealt.

This, I don't agree with.

You had some superficial shade tossed on you based on pregame content. Big deal.

How you reacted to it looked like you deserved it.

I don't think my reaction was particularly out of the ordinary or all that bizarre and this is a bit of a reach. An accusation was made against me, I reacted to it in turn and gave reasons as to why I didn't think it was a particularly problematic or suspect post from Medea. And we're at a fairly early point in the game where there's not much I'm going to be able to say to justify the fact I'm town beyond that, hence being flippant in a couple of posts.

Fact I'm a replacement is absolutely relevant too I reckon - in most cases you're arguing on your own merits from the start. Different game when you're coming in after it's started started and from a town POV explaining posts that were made by someone else.

Yes. Your response was carefully reasoned out.

For a pregame, superficial, unfounded hunch.

... kinda my point.

I mean for Stephen it's clear much more than a hunch in his view, hence why I was defending myself. Your argument feels incredibly mixed up here...if I make a flippant joke in my defence that's suspect, if I instead try to mount a proper defence of myself then that's also suspect. Surely it can't be both? Weird line of questioning and kinda feels like someone potentially trying to bandwagon an initial accusation that's been made against me.

His push was based on next to nothing. It was a hunch by definition, no matter how strongly he may feel about it.

[MalcolmTucker]

Okay, but when that hunch is influencing how someone is actually voting/going to vote it feels perfectly reasonable to respond and refute said accusations. Again...your logic here dictates that you simultaneously seem to think it's weird I replied flippantly but also that I mounted a defence of myself. Which is it?

Likewise it's interesting you're suspecting my responses now while saying you don't actually think Stephen's original hunch was necessarily all that important. Just strikes me as incredibly inconsistent.

[House]

What part of their reaction was suspicious and how do you think that reaction differs from how they would react if town?

I already said. Tentative approach looked like he deserved to be suspected.

Bullshitting around, laughing it off, whatever... that initial impression would have likely just went away.

Doesn't answer the question. You don't think that Tentativeness and concern is normal for a player who replaces into a suspected slot over something they didn't do?

Not really. They know what their role pm says. He knows it's pregame.

Scum and arguably town PR have reason to be concerned about early suspicion snowballing, because either loss hurts their team.

If a VT gets voted out over bullshit, that's informative to town because there's clearly some heavy scum involvement to push "scum because pregame neighborhood comments" through to lim.

[MalcolmTucker]

it seems like the fairly sensible path for me to mount a defence when accusations are made to try and help the town down the line instead of just ignoring pressure being put on me.

If you were a PR, perhaps I could understand being paranoid of early suspicion snowballing and hurting town, but...

If that ends up happening then so be it

... I somehow doubt that's your primary concern.

So, again, how do you reckon I should have replied in this case? In a joking way or seriously? Or should I just have ignored Stephen's requests to justify said posts entirely? I'm really not sure where you're going with this because by your logic it was a no-win for me.

[House]

Okay, but when that hunch is influencing how someone is actually voting/going to vote it feels perfectly reasonable to respond and refute said accusations. Again...your logic here dictates that you simultaneously seem to think it's weird I replied flippantly but also that I mounted a defence of myself. Which is it?

Likewise it's interesting you're suspecting my responses now while saying you don't actually think Stephen's original hunch was necessarily all that important. Just strikes me as incredibly inconsistent.

You're the only one that is using the word flippantly.

Except just now. With me pointing that out.

[Cupcake Butterfly]

My first townreads this game are Lukewarm, LLD, and House.

They are not particularly well-reasoned, but I am comfortable enough to speak them.