CONTROL - GAME OVER!

[Cephrir]

LLD's name alone is enough of a reason to nightkill her, incidentally.

[Cephrir]

and again, tet was probably killed for claiming a power role. this isn't new, but you keep falling back to this same old refrain and that's frustrating.

[mastina]

Enough people are around that a quick hammer could've happened by now...

For the record I've been around the entire time, just offline. (I am always paranoid of people checking when I have logged in / when I am online, seeing I am not posting here even if I don't post anywhere on site, accusing me of posting in a mafia PT, so I do most of my reading offline. But I have been here the entire time.)

I am having trouble figuring out something to actually say (brain kinda scrambled), but I've been around, reading offline, including seeing the two votes on Andante. So if I was scum and if Andante wasn't scum and if there were no scum votes already on Andante: yes, I could in fact coordinate a quickhammer with a scumbuddy.

I wouldn't even need to scumclaim for it.

I would cast a, "VOTE: Andante; I see the wagon there, I agree with it, I know it's a risk but it's a risk I'm willing to take", and leave the scumclaim of a hammer to my scumbuddies.

But, I am town and I am giving it time even tho it should legit just be Andante/Cephrir/tictac here.

If Ceph is scum that's gonna fuck me up tbh.

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but like:
Bears is obvtown from all three heads; Bears is basically conftown from role; Bears is molded when mold is a scum ability; Bears cannot be scum.
You would know yourself to be town (and I believe it); you have been molded; you are not scum.
I am town; I have been molded; I am not scum.
Malakittens is almost certainly town by both role and play; if she is town, the number of scum candidates thus shrinks considerably.

Who does that leave?

For three scum:
{Norwee, Cephrir, Andante, tictac}.
3/4 of those would be scum.

The only way for Cephrir to be town is if all the rest were not.

The thing is, tho, Norwee is town here. I really wish I could explain the read there, figure out a way to describe why this is Norwee's townplay rather than scumplay. I don't have a way to really express it. Like, I knew Norwee was scum when Norwee was scum, but I couldn't really describe it then, either. I somehow just

knew

. And somehow, I just

know

that Norwee is town here. It genuinely is a soulread, and I just don't see how the soulread there could ever be wrong.

Beyond that, Norwee and I have basically mind melded and been on the same wavelength a lot, another very good indicator of sharing an alignment. Sure, it's not foolproof, but it's very very likely. Norwee has just been...so active, so invested in the game, so genuine, so sincere, I don't see how that's Norwee as scum.

And then we get how Cephrir has just been playing exactly like he plays when he's scum. Yes, the meta I am using, I have used for a long time--but I legit don't think it is outdated in spite of the age. Most players who have played for the length Cephrir has will have their meta shift, but in the case of Cephrir, I genuinely just don't think his scumplay HAS shifted from my model.

If you take it for granted that I am town (and I am) and knowing that Bears is town and having a good idea that Mala is town, then it's both that Norwee is town by every metric and Cephrir looks like scum to me.

[mastina]

but mastina is my gut based on past looking at votes.

I voted Ircher the first time I logged in both D1 and D2. My placement on the wagon is irrelevant to VCA because had I been online like 12-16 hours earlier my votes would be like second or third rather than near the back.

I voted Dunnstral after being asked to by you, but Dunnstral was already a scumread of mine the entire game. And the fact of the matter is, I DID move my vote to Dunnstral after you asked me to. I was under no obligation to do so as scum. I could have feigned stubbornness on pushing a Cephrir scumread and/or try to get you to sheep me and dissuade you from voting Dunnstral. I could have just not acknowledged you. But I didn't; I moved because you

asked

me to, and Dunnstral was already a scumread, so I was willing to sheep you.

The only times I've not voted

confirmed

scum is when I have voted my game-long callout of scum. (Cephrir.)

The fact my name has come up so consistently all game for 0 reason should tell you something

The fact that you have

survived

when your name has come up so consistently when all others whose names came up have not should tell me something, too.

lets yeet andante
i feel terrible for not doing so long ago

I AM willing to vote there if we're all ready to, so to speak, risk it, because imo it's actually not that much of a risk.

But, obviously: no need to rush mylo because it IS mylo. Mislim, we loose; wrong yeet, we lose. So, we have the luxury of taking time. To

some

extent, it will probably end up as an, "oh well if we're wrong we're wrong" moment, in that if Bears all collectively decide Andante scum (as in universal across all 3 heads) and you say Andante is scum that's probably good enough (Norwee is already there, I am already there). Bonus points if Roden is also on board.

Not sure if that makes sense, but basically:
I'm pretty damn sure Andante is scum.
If we, collectively, are willing to risk the game on Andante right now, then there's no need to wait and we can just pile the votes on without a care.
But if we are not willing to risk the game on Andante being scum right now, then there's no need to rush, because we have the luxury of time and can take said time to make the best possible decision today.

[mastina]

what, using their abilities as though they were town? i do that shit all the time

I mean the mods literally didn't give me a grandfather clause (generally speaking when you make a rule change it is best to start enforcing it

after

any currently-running game has completed but I will have

words

to say on that when this game finishes, believe you me) and handed me a warning for this very behavior in that, yes, as scum I basically DO exclusively use my abilities in an incredibly town-looking way in order to get the towncred from it. So this is true in that

in theory

it could be scum...

...But

in practice

, it's just not.

If I'm scum against mastina this game, why haven't I killed her yet?

Because you don't respect my towngame?

You genuinely see it as no threat; why the fuck would you ever kill me when you think my towngame is a joke?

I can be a nuisance to you when scumreading you; I can be annoying to you when I scumread you. But in your eyes I am not a threat to you.

Now granted. Obviously, I have a higher opinion of my towngame than you do; I personally would like to think that I am in fact a credible threat because I can in fact get people to work with me and can in fact be quite accurate and I'm basically unyeetable so a 1v1 against me is borderline unwinnable for a scum player.

...But while *I* think that of myself, it doesn't matter what *I* think of my townplay. It matters what

the scum

think of my townplay--you included. And you don't think I'm a threat to you.

true but i mean like, mastina is not interested in listening

I mean--my reads are never as certain as I pretend they are.

So like.

I'm not actually 100% on you being scum no matter how much I may pretend I am.

But like.

While there is the paranoia of "what if I'm wrong?" with every town post you make, with every good point you raise, with the gut pangs from your posts which make me think "this actually sounds town"...

...I still come back to scum because who else could be scum if not you, Ceph?

It's not Bears. They're town for literally every possible reason a slot could be town.
It's not Norwee. I just can't see Norwee as scum here.
The only possibilities are {Malakittens, Roden}.
Roden has looked town to me the entire game, has been molded when we know mold is a scum ability, and has Ircher interactions that don't look like those of a scumbuddy.
Malakittens has looked town to me the entire game and the use of her role has been the towniest possible usage of it which makes her look like town.

And then there's the fact that you do overall still scream scum the way you have when scum in the past.

So like.

How is it possible for you to

not

be scum, here?

Where is it that I could be going wrong?

I just don't see how I could be.

[Cephrir]

Most players who have played for the length Cephrir has will have their meta shift, but in the case of Cephrir, I genuinely just don't think his scumplay HAS shifted from my model.

it has changed a great deal as anyone who plays with me regularly could tell you, but you don't care because you're scum

[Cephrir]

Because you don't respect my towngame?

You genuinely see it as no threat; why the fuck would you ever kill me when you think my towngame is a joke?

I can be a nuisance to you when scumreading you; I can be annoying to you when I scumread you. But in your eyes I am not a threat to you.

i guess i have to concede this one

[Cephrir]

...I still come back to scum because who else could be scum if not you, Ceph?

when your reasons for townreading the people you townread are "i just can't see them as scum here," i'm not really left with any room to make any argument. i can't point out where you are going wrong because you can't or won't say where you are going at all

[Cephrir]

Most players who have played for the length Cephrir has will have their meta shift, but in the case of Cephrir, I genuinely just don't think his scumplay HAS shifted from my model.

it has changed a great deal as anyone who plays with me regularly could tell you, but you don't care because you're scum

like i can link you some recent games if you care

i just don't think that's the case

[Cephrir]

to be clear, i'm not saying my scumgame doesn't still sound town; it does

my town game has improved. i bleed town all over the place either way these days

[mastina]

one of them killed lld
and its mastina

Respectfully, if I was going to kill LLD, it'd have been N1 or not at all. (And since LLD can't protect herself and no other source of killstopping N1 has been claimed, LLD's protection is the only possible source of a failed N1 nightkill.)

Who would I have killed?

Greeting/catboi? Greeting, hell no; Greeting is in no way shape or form a thread. And as for catboi? I don't give a fuck about catboi/petapan. I realize people think he's a very good player, but I've never seen it. I've never encountered this alleged skill. I've heard more about catboi's scumgame which is definitely impressive but I've not seen his towngame. I never kill there.

You? Maybe in 2015 but in this day and age, Mala, you're so "out" of games that you're not really a threat. (No offense meant, but it's the harsh truth.)

T3/Val? Definitely not.
TWIE? Definitely not.
Galron? Definitely not.
Toogeloo? Definitely not.
StD? Definitely not.
Dwlee/Andante? Definitely not.
tictac? Definitely not.

Cephrir? Ahahaha no. I don't kill Ceph ever.

Tet? I mean, it's

possible

, but while Tet is a mandatory kill before lylo, Tet's not exactly on my N1 list. Tet's mostly a scaling threat: not a threat immediately, but a threat the longer the game goes on. So N1 is a waste.

Bell? Okay I would kill Bell N1, so that's

one

possible N1 candidate that's not LLD, but I can tell you that I'd prefer LLD over Bell because while Bell is obvtown and Bell has good reads, Bell has absolutely zero charisma and is the Creature of this day and age: zero ability to convince others that he's right. So while it's

possible

I'd kill him N1, LLD would override him in priority. In other words, while Bell would be an N1 kill candidate

in a vacuum

, when

compared to other options

, never.

MUSH? This is my first game with MUSH and off of D1 nothing MUSH did or said was really kill-worthy.

Roden? I've played with Roden, what, twice? Roden was decent, and eventually a threat, but is similar to Tet in being a

scaling

threat. Not a N1 threat to take care of, and honestly, not as scary as Tet. Competent, skilled, but not kill-worthy except in specific niche situations.

The one and ONLY slot that could rival LLD for an N1 kill is The Three Bears, because of the triple threat. However, LLD is imo more of a threat and more scary than Bears is because while Bears is incredibly obvtown and reasonably accurate and reasonably charismatic, they are not as charismatic as LLD and their accuracy is far less consistent than LLD's.

So I never kill anyone but LLD N1 here; the fact that LLD lived to see D2 is proof that I am town.

Can I get a list of everyone's stances?

Andante/Ceph/Tictac scummy
Rest are townreads.

^

[Cephrir]

VOTE: no lim

objectively correct

[NorwegianboyEE]

i think we all agree tictac and andante are scum

next time i want to post i'll just shout into an empty void instead, the effect will be similar

ok fine. i'll listen to you. who is the scum team. name three people who all arent andante.

Andante, Andante and…. Hmmmm, oh i got it. Andante.

[Malakittens]

I hate the no lim

bc all of what is going to happen is i'm going to die

and you'll STILL be in this same situtation

WITH LEGIT NO RESULT

SO NO

WE
ARE
NOT
NO
LIMMING

[NorwegianboyEE]

When the only positive is to confirm an theory that is like 0.01% likely to be true then i also fail to see it’s use.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Are all of the slots voting no lim afraid to have an stance today?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Or it’s like, they want a night to kill Mala so there will be less voice of opposition against them tommorow.

[The Three Bears]

we got a letter. and then i will reiterate again that our role is confirmable. tictac suggesting we elim us is strictly antitown. i think we claim today for sure but as for when, i will need to hear from my hydra buddies.

-noraa

How are you confirmable?

i have the impulse to just claim but my buddies arent here hmm. i will give some very very obvious hints that way i can tell my hydra chat that i didnt claim o-o.

ok well we are dylan faden right? remember jesse faden? who was that again?
we were informed of their existence (think about why for a moment)
AND there is something in jesse's role that confirms another role exists ......
and that is [REDACTED]

put the pieces together yourself.

-noraa

ffs Nora.

Fine we finish mass claim.
We are Dylan Faden, an informed enabling [redacted].
We are informed Jesse Faden is present in game. We passively enable Jesse's abilities.
That I'm aware in flavour Dylan is corrupted af/Hiss aligned and final fate is he's left comatose - and honestly that i've read it would appear anti-FBC which is why my insistance is what it was.

With that said pending any counter claim

WE ARE HARD CLEAR.

-Pinkie the grumpy bear.

I dont think you're scum but how is this clearing, and also how is it finishing massclaim if you're still leaving something out?

Really Ceph? like seriously really?

Are you actually asking this or is this just for shiggs?

I have no idea what you're talking about

I have no idea what you're actually saying here so the confusion is both ways.

-Pinkie

[The Three Bears]

i think we all agree tictac and andante are scum

next time i want to post i'll just shout into an empty void instead, the effect will be similar

Your toxicity is really beginning to grate on me.

-Pinkie

[The Three Bears]

i dont understand why mala was the nk.

who says she was?

Says the BG invention and dead fruit vendor in a game with unknown multitasking rules.

[The Three Bears]

I hate the no lim

bc all of what is going to happen is i'm going to die

and you'll STILL be in this same situtation

WITH LEGIT NO RESULT

SO NO

WE
ARE
NOT
NO
LIMMING

^This.
-Pinkie.

[Cephrir]

I hate the no lim

bc all of what is going to happen is i'm going to die

and you'll STILL be in this same situtation

WITH LEGIT NO RESULT

SO NO

WE
ARE
NOT
NO
LIMMING

Eh, alright

UNVOTE:

[Cephrir]

i think we all agree tictac and andante are scum

next time i want to post i'll just shout into an empty void instead, the effect will be similar

Your toxicity is really beginning to grate on me.

-Pinkie

This isn't toxic

[Cephrir]

i dont understand why mala was the nk.

who says she was?

Says the BG invention and dead fruit vendor in a game with unknown multitasking rules.

I dont follow

Why can't he have BGed someone else

[Cephrir]

Are all of the slots voting no lim afraid to have an stance today?

I think I've made my stance pretty clear dude

But if it needs to be clearer, VOTE: tictac