Mafia Rule Updates Discussion Thread

[DkKoba]

You need approval to modkill, force replacement is purely mod discretion.

[DkKoba]

If you're using a force replacement as retaliation against someone though, or something similar, I suspect that listmods might take notice and intervene though.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You need approval to modkill, force replacement is purely mod discretion.

Ah, okay.

[Davsto]

ugh did they keep that approval to modkill thing despite my expertly reasoned issue with it

[Davsto]

idk why i weigh in so much i swear i'm more invested than the game/forum moderation than i am with the game/forum itself (especially the game) i'm just trying to be insightful i hope i help

[DkKoba]

in a situation where you are potentially modkilling a slot, you are going to have your game thread locked anyways so eh

[Zachrulez]

in a situation where you are potentially modkilling a slot, you are going to have your game thread locked anyways so eh

As a mod I just prefer to have the power to be able to make that decision myself. I don't think I've ever actually needed to do a modkill on MS like... ever though. It actually does generally bother me a bit that the site in general no longer trusts a mod to actually make a good judgement call.

I'm actually wondering what happened because I assume there was actually a triggering event to that rule change?

[lilith2013]

Language of the following rule is being updated based on the feedback we've received (new text is in

green

):

Do not use cryptography, invisible text, or otherwise take any action that attempts to create an in-game private communication channel in plain sight

using out-of-game information or agreements

to communicate with some but not all players in a mafia game. You are allowed to provide "breadcrumbs" or crumb, as long as anyone could reasonably understand and interpret the meaning.

You are allowed to create in-game communications if you are using information or agreements produced within the same game - for example, if you agree on a code in a game-related PT. Using references to information or agreements produced outside of the game

that you know only specific people will be able to understand is not allowed.

[lilith2013]

Modkills required listmod approval starting in 2019. I wasn't around at that time so I don't know if there was a specific incident that caused the change, but I do know that game mods were using modkills as punishment for players but would end up causing harm to the game, which we don't want. I think it's good to have a standardized approach to modkills across the site, and the rule also puts the onus (and any consequences) for the decision on the listmods rather than any individual game mod - even fairly recently there have been people debating whether a modkill was justified, and the listmods having approved the decision meant that people couldn't (or shouldn't) criticize the game mod for it.

[Zachrulez]

To be fair I would want the onus and responsibility for the decision to do a modkill. It's also something I would not come to lightly... but I just really dislike ceding the authority to make that decision to someone else.

I assume the theme game arena is the only place mods can explicetely give themselves that power without listmod approval? (Because I assume there are theme related allowances for it?)

[Cook]

i think a modkill is where you also make that person a neutral survivor so that they also lose the game?

there may be a way to have mod-caused deaths without killing someone and survivorfying them as punishment

[Zachrulez]

Maybe that was the exception. Game mechanic kills that weren't alignment changing.

[DkKoba]

I dont convert to survivor unless it was due to malicious behavior i have to modkill a slot.

[Gamma Emerald]

The Mini Theme queue has a slot in the mod form for requests for deviations from the site’s standard rules, I would guess if modkills were a part of a setup (such as a punishment for breaking a post restriction) they could be allowed through that

[lilith2013]

yep - you can request an exception, but you'd have to explain why.

[lilith2013]

Just as a heads up, all of the updated rules are effective today.

[TemporalLich]

Are UPicks and CYS games now inherently bastard? just wanna make sure I'm reading the rules right (more specifically Moderator Rule 16)

[lilith2013]

I don’t know what CYS means, but yes, UPicks are inherently bastard and technically should have been announced as such for a while now.

[TemporalLich]

I don’t know what CYS means, but yes, UPicks are inherently bastard and technically should have been announced as such for a while now.

If I'm remembering correctly, a CYS (Choose Your Side, I think) game involves sending in picks on alignment preference.

For example, you can send in the pick {Town, Scum, Third Party}, meaning you'd prefer being Town but would rather be Scum than Third Party.

It's a non-random (if the mod creates a setup UPick-style) or semi-random (if the game has a predetermined setup) way of generating a setup.

[lilith2013]

Those would count too then.

Functionally this doesn’t change mods’ ability to run games, just requires these mechanics to be explicitly announced ahead of time and makes it clear that you’re not allowed to use nonrandom assignment unless it’s a game mechanic. It’s already required in most of the queues’ rules anyway.

[Gamma Emerald]

Would Greater/Greatest and Grander/Grandest Idea be considered non-random role/alignment distribution?

[lilith2013]

Using the GM/GIM concept in itself isn’t nonrandom, because someone could run a game where they randomize each person’s role from a GIM thread, right? So it just depends on how the mod is assigning roles to players.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am not inherently averse to labelling upicks as inherently bastard but I do think that if that is now the case then we could really use a new system of denoting bastard games that isn't a binary is or isn't.

[Morning Tweet]

I am not inherently averse to labelling upicks as inherently bastard but I do think that if that is now the case then we could really use a new system of denoting bastard games that isn't a binary is or isn't.

^^^^^^^^^^^

for real

[Nancy Drew 39]

Agree with RC and Tweetie. I don’t want uPicks, GIM etc. and different ways of designing a game to be lumped in the same category as multiball, cults, mid-game alignment changes and even moderator lies.