Newbie 2089 | Endgame

[Frogsterking]

Okay so walk me through your read progression on Kitty's slot.

[StrangeMatter]

Speaking of, currently, what are your reads @KittyTacky?

[Frogsterking]

Kitty's not here and I want to see a progression.

[StrangeMatter]

Okay so walk me through your read progression on Kitty's slot.

Part of my issue here is I look at Kitty's slot and noted that they have been pushing ofmercia for the entire day now and barring out most everything else. Part of the problem is I'm stuck on whether or not scum would end up tunneling this hard or not. I keep leaning on the former right now but I don't see much against the latter.

[Frogsterking]

Okay so walk me through your read progression on Kitty's slot.

Part of my issue here is I look at Kitty's slot and noted that they have been pushing ofmercia for the entire day now and barring out most everything else. Part of the problem is I'm stuck on whether or not scum would end up tunneling this hard or not. I keep leaning on the former right now but I don't see much against the latter.

Okay great. And how is this current view different from your view while I scum cased Kitty and fwog?

[StrangeMatter]

Okay so walk me through your read progression on Kitty's slot.

Part of my issue here is I look at Kitty's slot and noted that they have been pushing ofmercia for the entire day now and barring out most everything else. Part of the problem is I'm stuck on whether or not scum would end up tunneling this hard or not. I keep leaning on the latter (scum doesn't tunnel and is more likely town) right now but I see posts for the former (scum can absolutely play aggressively early, and some opportunism with how easy of a push ofmercia would be).

EBWOP.

It's getting extremely late so I'll respond later.

[ProgoWoshua]

I'm not so sure about my vote anymore.

UNVOTE: ofmercia

I re-read their progression this game, and I don't particularly think of it as scummy.

[KittyTacky]

Speaking of, currently, what are your reads @KittyTacky?

Time for a readslist! I usually townread at least partly by gut and scumread by other methods. I don't feel comfortable pure gutscumming people unless they give off extremely bad vibes.

LOCKTOWN

• KittyTacky - I read my role PM. It was green in color.

• TistDaniel - Strong informative posts, despite some stumbles he seems like an unusually skilled newbie town.

• NorwegianboyEE - Combination of meta and gut read.

TOWN

• ProgoWoshua - Reactions to things seem to me like a townie would react, did nothing notably scummy. Also gut.

TOWNLEAN

• StrangeMatter - Replaced into a scummy slot, but recent posts show a will to solve.

• Frogsterking - Scummed it up for half the game but recent posts seem alright now. Shaky, bordering on neutral.

NEUTRAL

• fwogcarf - Was a townlean at first but then I got bad vibes from their posts.

SCUMLEAN

• AutoDefenestrator - Voted my townread, said TistDaniel shouldn't share his scum strategy despite more info helping town more often than not, lurking.

SCUM

• ofmercia - At first I lockscummed this but now I entertain the possibility of this being a limbait newbie. Still, I explained the reasons for my read several times before.

LOCKSCUM

• N/A

[Frogsterking]

Interesting that Strange made it to town for you from their recent posts, Kitty. I'm not buying it from Strange yet.

[Frogsterking]

I'm not so sure about my vote anymore.

UNVOTE: ofmercia

I re-read their progression this game, and I don't particularly think of it as scummy.

I think this is wise.

[ofmercia]

Strategy discussion - does no elimination on d1 help town or scum?

[Frogsterking]

Strategy discussion - does no elimination on d1 help town or scum?

It's very bad for town we want to try and hit correctly on D1 or D2 for best chances.

[TistDaniel]

Though from what I understand, odds are very heavily against us, and D1 elimination is almost always town. In that sense, avoiding the D1 elimination would give us an additional town player on D2. But the elimination also provides us with information, and information is very important to town. Even if we do eliminate town, that's one more person whose alignment is known, and one more set of vote counts that can be properly analyzed.

(I'm here, by the way, just rereading the thread. Hope to post reads soon.)

[fwogcarf]

throwback to the time someone told me progression reads are bad

[fwogcarf]

I forgot we could vote sleep

Honestly if we don't have like a consensus scum that might be the play to make

[TistDaniel]

I've been rereading the thread, especially paying attention to how much players are talking about other players.

Most of us now have post counts around the 50s or higher. Strange is lagging behind with 29, but that's not her fault. She's been active, but she was a late replacement for a player who wasn't.

Our biggest lurkers are Auto with 15 and Progo with 19. These two players together have been posting less than any other single player in the game, aside from Strange. Auto in particular could post three times as much and still fall behind the activity of other players.

I criticized Auto for lurking around #125, and quickly became his top scumread, with him suggesting that I was scum in #195, voting me in #223, calls me his top scumread in #267, misrepresents what I just said in #277, and reiterates that he still wants to vote for me in #354. Auto has mentioned the names of other players 19 times, and seven of those times, it was my name. He has yet to mention ofmercia, Progo, or Kitty at all--esepecially strange, because those three players have been cecntral to one of the largest controversies in this game. Auto's vote on my feels like OMGUS, which doesn't always mean scum. He has yet to stop lurking in spite of my criticism, which also doesn't always mean scum. That said, I have yet to see anything from him that makes me think "town".

fwog has an average amount of activity, and has talked about everyone roughly equally. He doesn't have the highest wordcount, actually having several posts that are a single word. That said, he doesn't feel especially scummy to me. I know he was my first vote, but looking back on that vote now, I think his behavior there does make more sense as town.

ofmercia has a decent amount of activity, but most of it seems to be defensive. A very large part of their discussion has been defending themself over the Progo controversy. They don't seem to be on the offense much. They will occasionally throw a scumread, but typically on someone who voted them first. ofmercia has mentioned the names of other players 37 times. Twelve of those times, it was my name, eleven of those times it was progo's name. He has never mentioned Auto or fwog.

Progo is our second biggest lurker. He gave us a lot in his reads post (#216), but not much before or since. I feel like he was much more active last game (though to be fair, I haven't read very far in the last game--Strange, can you confirm?) so this drop in activity feels suspicious. That said, he has talked about everyone, with especial focuses on ofmercia, me, Norwegianboy, and Frog--which doesn't seem unusual, as we are the more active players, and the players more focused on Progo.

Kitty has a decent amount of activity, and does talk about pretty much everyone. Hasn't had much to say about fwog, and a whole lot to say about ofmercia, but other than that, seems to be talking about everyone roughly evenly. He's single-minded in attack, which could be a good trait in town. Though I do feel like his attack on ofmercia went a bit too far. I'll admit that ofmercia did look scummy though.

Norwegianboy has been especially active in this game, which I always like. He's talked about every player, though there are two tiers: he's focused especially on Dunnstral, Frogster, Progo and me, and less on the remaining players. There's nobody he's been ignoring, and nobody he's been absurdly focused on either.

StrangeMatter is a recent replacement, and has some catching up to do. She's talked about most players in #424, but has never once mentioned Auto, and neither has Dunnstral. #424 also seems to be that slot's only mention of fwog or Norwegianboy. The only time she mentioned Frog was asking what his survey was. But again, she's new here, and is replacing in for someone who hardly ever talked.

Frog has talked about everyone, especially ofmercia and Kitty. His early inactivity has been more than made up for by a surge of activity in the past few days. Good to see more of him.

Looking at possible scumteams:

I think it's pretty obvious Auto isn't working with me, but I don't see much reason he couldn't be with anyone else. He doesn't really talk about anyone else, and nobody else devotes much time to him either.

If fwog is scum, I think he's more skilled. I can't see him showing a lot of attention to anyone in particular. He has cast a few votes on lurkers, but hasn't pushed a major case on anyone, nor has he avoided talking about anyone. He could be partnered with anyone. Or he could be town, which feels more likely to me.

ofmercia, as I said, has played a very defensive game. I haven't seen him focused on attacking anyone. There's obviously tension between him and Kitty, and him and Frog, so it seems unlikely that they're scum together. It also seems unlikely that ofmercia would be scum with Progo.

Progo we haven't seen much. He feels towny to me based on what we have seen, but honestly, it's mostly been the one post. Probably not scum with ofmercia.

Kitty has launched an all-out assault on ofmercia, so I feel confident in saying that they're not scum together. For the most part, Kitty feels towny for me, single-minded in attack, but still taking an active role in investigation, and not utterly neglectiving anyone. Probably not scum with ofmercia or Frog.

Norwegianboy has been very active, and isn't neglecting anyone. He could theoretically be partners with anybody, but if he's scum, he's very good at it, because I haven't seen anything in his 83 posts to suggest it. He is single-handedly responsible for almost one fifth of the posts in this game, so it feels like if he were scum, he would have slipped up by now.

I still want to see more of StrangeMatter. As a newer arrival, I'm not confident saying too much about her. I could believe she was scum, most likely partnered with one of the players she doesn't talk about: Frog, fwog, or Norwegianboy. That said, I am getting more towny vibes from her than Dunnstral.

I'm feeling better about Frog lately. Initially I was suspicious of his lack of activity, but lately he's been feeling more to me like town, pushing hard for investigation. He's been especially focused on ofmercia and Kitty, so I feel like he's probably not scum with him.

At the moment, I feel most confident about VOTE: Auto.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Alright gonna try to get back into this.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Strategy discussion - does no elimination on d1 help town or scum?

Scum.

By a mile.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Alright gonna try to get back into this.

Post 440 is really helping me out in that regards, hehe.

[NorwegianboyEE]

So topic of the day, AutoDefenestrator.
ISO'd him. His only votes are me and then ListDaniel. From his POV if newbscum, probably the strongest town slots in the game. Both talk a lot, and one is especially wordy. Seems paranoid of me due to being "an experienced player", also mentions seeing no reason "Tistdaniel wouldn't act like this as mafia".
Tbh i can't see this as an agenda filled or scum way of posting. Therefore it is my opinion scum are more likely in the more neutral townish slots, blending in with the "accepted townreads".

I'm gonna vote here. VOTE: Fwogcarf

[Frogsterking]

Norwee if you're on now, I did some poking and I think there are two scum in Strange/Auto/Kitty.

Pedit:
If you reread my iso you might see I went down this path the last couple of days and made some discoveries.

[ofmercia]

Nice post tisdaniel (440). I have a few questions though.

"ofmercia, as I said, has played a very defensive game. I haven't seen him focused on attacking anyone. There's obviously tension between him and Kitty, and him and Frog, so it seems unlikely that they're scum together. It also seems unlikely that ofmercia would be scum with Progo."

I understand the posting between myself and kitty can be seen as tension and defending. But what gave you the idea I have tension with frog? I don't remember any such exchange. I can only speak for myself in this but I feel you get a lot wrong in this post like my tension with frog or that I haven't made any "attacks" (others need to verify that with their own experience and what was written about them). But I like the idea behind finding who is ignoring who etc, it expresses a desire to look at the bigger picture and solve the game.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwee if you're on now, I did some poking and I think there are two scum in Strange/Auto/Kitty.

Ok, you gonna expand on that?

[TistDaniel]

ofmercia: I'm sorry, you're absolutely right about Frog. I remember I added that as an afterthought, way after I finished the section about you, and I was working on Frog. To be honest, I'm not sure why I added it. Maybe I meant to add it on Kitty, forgetting that I'd already said that about Kitty.

I think I have to hold my ground on you being defensive. Your strongest attack was on Progo, who you didn't vote, you didn't question, and you didn't even use his name or say there was something suspicious about him in your original post about him. Ever since then, if I recall correctly, your only scumreads and your only votes have been on me and Kitty, and only after we'd put pressure on you for the Progo controversy. Am I wrong?

[Frogsterking]

447 I'd rather you read my iso including the push on fwog, Kitty and Strange. I think Strange is likely to be one.