Mini Normal 2262: NbITGBSMoD [game over]

[Stephen A Smith]

also Mafia Alien Enabler & Mafia Backup Gunsmith is the sort of convoluted bullshit Datisi loves to put in his setup

[Stephen A Smith]

These are all of the Mini Normals Datisi has ever modded:



MN2245

setup

1x town ascetic activated innocent child
1x town 2-shot macho simple neapolitan
1x town babysitter
1x town lazy roleblocker
6x vt

1x mafia informed backup ascetic (there is a town ascetic activated innocent child in the game)
1x mafia 1-shot rolestopper backup ascetic
1x mafia backup ascetic

public info: all members of the mafia are backup ascetics. they may or may not have additional roles and/or modifiers.

MN 2205

setup

town:
1x town non-consecutive night neapolitan
1x town night 2 rolecop
1x town 1-shot detective
1x town informed gunsmith (there are 4 players in the game that show up as having a gun)
6x vt

scum:
1x mafia informed doctor (there is an informed town member aware that 4 players in the game show up as having a gun)
2x mafia doctor

public information: a mafia doctor (with or without modifiers) is confirmed to exist in the game

MN2187

setup

town:
1x town innocent child jailkeeper enabler
1x town joat (neapolitan, gunsmith, tracker)
1x town 3-shot vigilante
1x bulletproof townie
6x vt

scum:
1x mafia multitasking jailkeeper
1x mafia informed ([player] is a town innocent child jailkeeper enabler; there are no town-aligned aliens, babysitters, bodyguards, commuters, doctors, hiders, jailkeepers or rolestoppers, backups for one of these roles, or joats with the ability from at least one of these roles)
1x mafia bulletproof enabler

MN 2163

setup

town:
1x town informed loyal cop (informed there is at least one mafia member with the rolestopper ability)
1x town jailkeeper
1x town commuter
1x town checker miller
6x VT

scum:
1x mafia rolestopper
1x mafia n1 informed (informed there is a town informed loyal cop)
1x mafia goon

common features:

4 TPRs in each Setup
No Backups Ever
Convoluted TPRs.


Now if we actually have EN Gunsmith and Gunsmith backup and One Shot Role Cop as three of our TPRs our town is like kind of fucked on a PR level if we're dealing with the standard datisi 4 TPR setup because lol wut.

[Stephen A Smith]

like town having a full gunsmith and a backup gunsmith imo is just way too much power esp if town has an ungated protective who can play wifom games with the mafia nightkill. that combined with a follower/rolecop is just absolutely busted in terms of town power

[Dwlee99]

Eh jailkeeper (which is sort of effectively what your role is?) breaks follow the cop

[Dwlee99]

Like scum have a roleblock + your protect roleblocks. Gunsmith + backup gunsmith probably get off on average two checks which isn't that strong when two town roles (role cop + backup vigilante) are gunsmith millers. Role cop can get one inno - me, and otherwise just gives setup info.

[the worst]

like 2724 from andnate, town points!. wtf does 2742 mean lmao

Andnate, why did u get swayed so easilly from Umulat to Stephen, makes little sense, when u were hard pushing Umulat

Anyways, I have a Not-Guilty Result on Stephen so either

A. Dudes Tratior/Mafia Doctor
or B. Hes VT and confrimed town?

Im leaning towards option B,

so ig uhhh we just have a POE of like what? Dwlee/Eyes and maybe TW? although im inclinced to TR TW

this makes me happyyyy
me/dwlee/eyes/umlaut is mech poe probably

[the worst]

like 2724 from andnate, town points!. wtf does 2742 mean lmao

Andnate, why did u get swayed so easilly from Umulat to Stephen, makes little sense, when u were hard pushing Umulat

Anyways, I have a Not-Guilty Result on Stephen so either

A. Dudes Tratior/Mafia Doctor
or B. Hes VT and confrimed town?

Im leaning towards option B,

so ig uhhh we just have a POE of like what? Dwlee/Eyes and maybe TW? although im inclinced to TR TW

He wasnt one of my TRS, and also he was probably the best option(imo) as he wasnt getting much sus as other ppl

Can you tell me how that makes sense though? "Not getting much sus, so I figured he might be maf" like... do you just believe no one else can make reads or what?

Ok i'll rephrase, Stephen was in the middle of the POE(for most ppl anyways), so as an Investigative, i wanted to check someone whos in the middle of the POE

If hockey is real, I'm not sold that Stephen isn't mafia doctor.. just sayin

yea, there is a possibillity hes mafia doctor, but meh

Anywyas can u answer 2775 for me

objectively good reason to check Stephen

[the worst]

Btw I'm gonna claim now because I'm confused af.

I'm a backup vigilante. If you're a vigilante... like... why haven't you shot? Unless I'm just meant as a gunsmith Miller but that's lame

aha this is what I was looking for. I think you're a gunsmith miller sorry.

[the worst]

ok i'm just going to out

I'm Alien Voyeur.

I think the last scum is between Dwlee/Hockey because I don't think Datisi puts 5 TPRs in this game

we have 3 lims so we can just elim me/dwlee/hockey and auto win

I want to start with Hockey first because scum leaving the gunsmith alive makes very little sense to me and I don't think we're dealing with a Mafia Doctor.

VOTE: HockeyFan

Does Hockey make sense as scum? scum backup gs to a town gs is really swingy, and I'm not sure this setup is approved with that level of scum power + that level of scum-sided swing.

Otherwise if hes not backup gs, does his role make sense with the Nero fuckery on d1?

we may be better forcing Hockey into d6 and having him 1v1 someone lol I think wave was still a fine kill for scum to make

[the worst]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13072187

Compare to this game I modded:

Setup

Mafia Mailman
Mafia Combined Rolecop Voyeur
Mafia Bulletproof Ascetic
Town Novice Traffic Analyst
Town One-shot Cop
Town Simple Jailkeeper Neighbor
Town Neighbor
Town Compulsive JOAT (Neighborize, Complex Rolecop, Lazy Roleblock)
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

Arguably there's more town power in that game than in this one. And here we have a scum roleblocking role (jailkeeper) + an enabler on a strong town role (alien).

That joat role makes me smile

[the worst]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13072187

Compare to this game I modded:

Setup

Mafia Mailman
Mafia Combined Rolecop Voyeur
Mafia Bulletproof Ascetic
Town Novice Traffic Analyst
Town One-shot Cop
Town Simple Jailkeeper Neighbor
Town Neighbor
Town Compulsive JOAT (Neighborize, Complex Rolecop, Lazy Roleblock)
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

Arguably there's more town power in that game than in this one. And here we have a scum roleblocking role (jailkeeper) + an enabler on a strong town role (alien).

I'd just yeet both eyes and umlaut then pick up the pieces later if needed

[the worst]

I didn't tpr read dwlee but that kinda +1s my tpr on them i think. Needing to survive that hard does kinda cause that instinct to be less quick to evalulate your reads ?

I think I tr andante more after yesterday, i think i could hear her mind expanding during our back & forth yesterday

VOTE: eyes my heart keeps resting here.

[the worst]

I'm not even sure if eyes is my top scumread?? I think he is but I also really value knowing if his voting was pure or not

[HockeyFan]

lol of course more mechinal bullshit So The claimed/dead PRs are
town gunsmith,
town jack-of-all-trades,
backup gunsmith,
Stephens claim alien voyeur whatever,
and Dwlee's claim?

Fwiw, I'm inclined to believe Dwlees claim alot since they had no real to reason to claim there lol(as scum anyways), so can all of these 5 exist in this setup, someone help. @TW, is it plausible for these 5 PRS to exist?

If yes, POE is Umulat/eyes?(leaning towards umulat)
if no, well POE is pretty much me/stephen/dwlee

I think we win either way lol

[the worst]

sure. these are all like, moderate strength tprs with groovy role interactions. scum have a fair bit of power/control with their roles. I don't think 5 tprs is outlandish. I think a scum backup gs is slightly more outlandish fwiw.

[the worst]

I'm not like...... renown for my setup review talents btw..... my brain is about the size of an apricot...

[the worst]

here's the thing I guess. I wouldn't gamble the game on either interpretation being correct; I don't share stephen's confidence in datisi being incapable of shaking up his mod meta. I don't assume for a moment that datisi is so strongly in favour of 4 tprs per setup that he's going to fight the normal review group on their notion of balance. I think this setup is designed so that increasing one faction's ev deliberately nerfs their sheer power (as scum die, town power roles get weaker). I think that design ethos shines brighter than some bizarre notion that 10:3 games MUST;!!! have 4 TPRs. I think that notion is kind of silly.

I also dont think its entirely impossible.
But I think it's a goofy excuse to chainsaw though claimed roles at the expense of just chainsawing scumbags.

I'd rather just eliminate potential scumbags until I'm confident I can solve via day stuff.

[Stephen A Smith]

datisi is an artist, he likes 4 tprs because it is pretty

[Stephen A Smith]

hockeyfan is the most susp by dayplay too

and him not dying last night is a massive red flag imo

[Stephen A Smith]

gunsmith + backup gunsmith is a shitload of power

[the worst]

for Stephen to be scum, we would need
- a scum doctor in a gunsmith heavy setup (extremely powerful scum role + 1 reasonably strong scum role + 1 scum anti swing role vs. a gunsmith, backup gunsmith and a couple of millers. which would be insane.)
- Stephen bussing his own enabler, and then correctly guessing that his correct play was to claim literally the most perfect fakeclaim possible
- just to reiterate: half the TPRs being miller variants, one of whom was also a jack-of-a-couple of trades

I'm pretty comfortable just declaring Stephen absolutely town; I think andante is fairly likely town by play (a lot of past criticism about her is kinda the same reason ive just scumread her like two games in a row; she just changes her mind a lot and doesn't slow down to talk thru it much); I think Hockey's role fits the design ethos better as town but I wouldn't bet the game on it; I think Dwlee's play is very consistent and makes a lot of sense but I'm not sure I'd bet the game on that either.

absolutely think that the last scum is in eyes/umlaut.

[the worst]

gunsmith + backup gunsmith is a shitload of power

in a game with 2 gs millers and the inexplicable notion that gs innos are ~~~never quite innos~~~?

sorry, I am just not picking up what youre putting down.

sell me on 2 of [town!eyes, town!umlaut, scum!hockey] by dayplay and you have my sword.

[Stephen A Smith]

i pretty much never fakeclaim alien after i get investigated as an inno lol

[the worst]

I'd put a scum backup gunsmith in this setup at like, nearly as strong as a doctor. nrg hate scum roles which look town via setup.

again I keep reminding myself that I'm not going to correctly solve this game mechanically so this isn't a wager on the game, I just don't think its a remotely compelling argument to saw through tprs

[the worst]

i pretty much never fakeclaim alien after i get investigated as an inno lol

yeah fr

I have trust issues dont mind me qualifying my townread on someone inno'd