CONTROL - GAME OVER!

[NorwegianboyEE]

i rb'd you last night

Ok so it was... night 4 roleblock on Roden.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I got molded. Pretty sure this means it isn't a 3P ability because scum wouldn't just leave me alone. Also pretty sure this means Mastina is town? Night 2 having no mold victims might be because the Vig killed the intended target.

Also, why is both Bell and the Mush slot dead? I really don't think the Vig would kill one of them, but I don't see us having two groupscum at this point either.

Roden got molded... Night 4.
So that means that STD roleblocked them and they also got molded on night 4.

[mastina]

So you're treating this as 2vs4?

Yes.

There's three possible worlds.

World number one: mold is a scum ability. That means it is a 2v4. So the correct option is to treat it as such.

World number two: mold is a 3p ability, but the 3p is non-malevolent. In that situation, the 3p is not a threat to the town and I can't think of a single player here who, if they were 3p (barring tictac but tictac is just scum), hasn't shown genuine scumhunting. You, Norwee, Roden, Ceph, all have shown what, if you were 3p, would be real scumhunting. So the 3p in this scenario still helps the town in eliminating the scum, tictac.

World number three: mold is a 3p ability, and is malevolent. In this situation, we still aim for eliminating scum, and leave eliminating the mold to the last remaining scum. We, admittedly, cannot prevent the malevolent mold from winning on its own by votes, but presumably, the scum would not be able to win with the mold either and thus would need to eliminate the mold in order to win.

In all three worlds, we aim to eliminate two scum. And I still believe we are in the first world.

I detailed about fake voting to force the scummy people to vote first.

Oh, that.

Well, it seems tictac is refusing to play along, given...

lets see if sanity has a chance here
VOTE: no yeet

This is a scumclaim from tictac.

It's refusing to take a stance.
It's refusing to do what you asked.

And more than that? Given the mold claims, it's also a scumclaim since a no-yeet would allow for another player to get molded, not to mention, another player to be nightkilled.

There is absolutely 0 reasons for a town player to vote no-yeet so this is just tictac trying to cut losses.

[Cephrir]

I got molded. Pretty sure this means it isn't a 3P ability because scum wouldn't just leave me alone. Also pretty sure this means Mastina is town? Night 2 having no mold victims might be because the Vig killed the intended target.

Also, why is both Bell and the Mush slot dead? I really don't think the Vig would kill one of them, but I don't see us having two groupscum at this point either.

Roden got molded... Night 4.
So that means that STD roleblocked them and they also got molded on night 4.

And I believe he sent a letter to a dead person Night 5, so we can't confirm or deny on that basis.

[Cephrir]

There is absolutely 0 reasons for a town player to vote no-yeet so this is just tictac trying to cut losses.

finally, some sense

[NorwegianboyEE]

There is absolutely 0 reasons for a town player to vote no-yeet so this is just tictac trying to cut losses.

finally, some sense

Weren’t you in favour of no yeet yesterday too?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Oh nvm VC says it was Andante.

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: no lim

objectively correct

No wait, i found it.
You did.

[Cephrir]

There is absolutely 0 reasons for a town player to vote no-yeet so this is just tictac trying to cut losses.

finally, some sense

Weren’t you in favour of no yeet yesterday too?

Yes.

That was before it was pointed out that that could lead to everyone getting molded. It's also worse today as our wiggle room on that front is now gone.

[Cephrir]

When I said "finally" in that post, I meant "finally, mastina is speaking some sense," not "finally, someone is speaking some sense."

[The Three Bears]

btw i currently think roden is one of the remaining scum. ik i said i'd read yesterday but ii was too moody yesterday, will try today

-noraa

[The Three Bears]

So you're treating this as 2vs4?

Yes.

There's three possible worlds.

World number one: mold is a scum ability. That means it is a 2v4. So the correct option is to treat it as such.

World number two: mold is a 3p ability, but the 3p is non-malevolent. In that situation, the 3p is not a threat to the town and I can't think of a single player here who, if they were 3p (barring tictac but tictac is just scum), hasn't shown genuine scumhunting. You, Norwee, Roden, Ceph, all have shown what, if you were 3p, would be real scumhunting. So the 3p in this scenario still helps the town in eliminating the scum, tictac.

World number three: mold is a 3p ability, and is malevolent. In this situation, we still aim for eliminating scum, and leave eliminating the mold to the last remaining scum. We, admittedly, cannot prevent the malevolent mold from winning on its own by votes, but presumably, the scum would not be able to win with the mold either and thus would need to eliminate the mold in order to win.

In all three worlds, we aim to eliminate two scum. And I still believe we are in the first world.

I detailed about fake voting to force the scummy people to vote first.

Oh, that.

Well, it seems tictac is refusing to play along, given...

lets see if sanity has a chance here
VOTE: no yeet

This is a scumclaim from tictac.

It's refusing to take a stance.
It's refusing to do what you asked.

And more than that? Given the mold claims, it's also a scumclaim since a no-yeet would allow for another player to get molded, not to mention, another player to be nightkilled.

There is absolutely 0 reasons for a town player to vote no-yeet so this is just tictac trying to cut losses.

OK, so why in your mind is Tictac not been yeet yet as an ascetic who should've been gone long ago, and do you think the power balance and flips indicates a 4 person scumteam?
What do you think the mold actually does? If you're aware of the lore around it, do you see it matching up?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm also curious if someone good with the lore could tell me what exactly mold is, i think i saw some videos of yucky mold people attacking the main character but that's all i really know.

[mastina]

So you're treating this as 2vs4?

Yes.

There's three possible worlds.

World number one: mold is a scum ability. That means it is a 2v4. So the correct option is to treat it as such.

World number two: mold is a 3p ability, but the 3p is non-malevolent. In that situation, the 3p is not a threat to the town and I can't think of a single player here who, if they were 3p (barring tictac but tictac is just scum), hasn't shown genuine scumhunting. You, Norwee, Roden, Ceph, all have shown what, if you were 3p, would be real scumhunting. So the 3p in this scenario still helps the town in eliminating the scum, tictac.

World number three: mold is a 3p ability, and is malevolent. In this situation, we still aim for eliminating scum, and leave eliminating the mold to the last remaining scum. We, admittedly, cannot prevent the malevolent mold from winning on its own by votes, but presumably, the scum would not be able to win with the mold either and thus would need to eliminate the mold in order to win.

In all three worlds, we aim to eliminate two scum. And I still believe we are in the first world.

I detailed about fake voting to force the scummy people to vote first.

Oh, that.

Well, it seems tictac is refusing to play along, given...

lets see if sanity has a chance here
VOTE: no yeet

This is a scumclaim from tictac.

It's refusing to take a stance.
It's refusing to do what you asked.

And more than that? Given the mold claims, it's also a scumclaim since a no-yeet would allow for another player to get molded, not to mention, another player to be nightkilled.

There is absolutely 0 reasons for a town player to vote no-yeet so this is just tictac trying to cut losses.

OK, so why in your mind is Tictac not been yeet yet as an ascetic who should've been gone long ago, and do you think the power balance and flips indicates a 4 person scumteam?
What do you think the mold actually does? If you're aware of the lore around it, do you see it matching up?

Tictac wasn't yeeted D1 because if you look at tictacs iso, D1 posting was actually reasonably good. It was not egregious enough to be worthy of a D1 yeet.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D2 because we eliminated a different scumbag that day.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D3 because Tet erroneously believed that there was a guilty on TWIE.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D4 because we yeeted a different scumbag that day.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D5 because y'all decided to gamethrow by yeeting Galron. THIS was the day that Tictac SHOULD have been yeeted.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D6 because Toogeloo decided that fakeclaiming as town was somehow a good idea. If not D5, THIS was the day we should've yeeted Tictac, and we probably WOULD have, if not for the fakeclaim.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D7 because we erroneously believed that yesterday was Mylo. HAD WE KNOWN that it wasn't Mylo on D7, we SHOULD have yeeted Tictac. But since we didn't, we operated under false ideas.

Gotta go.

[mastina]

So you're treating this as 2vs4?

Yes.

There's three possible worlds.

World number one: mold is a scum ability. That means it is a 2v4. So the correct option is to treat it as such.

World number two: mold is a 3p ability, but the 3p is non-malevolent. In that situation, the 3p is not a threat to the town and I can't think of a single player here who, if they were 3p (barring tictac but tictac is just scum), hasn't shown genuine scumhunting. You, Norwee, Roden, Ceph, all have shown what, if you were 3p, would be real scumhunting. So the 3p in this scenario still helps the town in eliminating the scum, tictac.

World number three: mold is a 3p ability, and is malevolent. In this situation, we still aim for eliminating scum, and leave eliminating the mold to the last remaining scum. We, admittedly, cannot prevent the malevolent mold from winning on its own by votes, but presumably, the scum would not be able to win with the mold either and thus would need to eliminate the mold in order to win.

In all three worlds, we aim to eliminate two scum. And I still believe we are in the first world.

I detailed about fake voting to force the scummy people to vote first.

Oh, that.

Well, it seems tictac is refusing to play along, given...

lets see if sanity has a chance here
VOTE: no yeet

This is a scumclaim from tictac.

It's refusing to take a stance.
It's refusing to do what you asked.

And more than that? Given the mold claims, it's also a scumclaim since a no-yeet would allow for another player to get molded, not to mention, another player to be nightkilled.

There is absolutely 0 reasons for a town player to vote no-yeet so this is just tictac trying to cut losses.

OK, so why in your mind is Tictac not been yeet yet as an ascetic who should've been gone long ago, and do you think the power balance and flips indicates a 4 person scumteam?
What do you think the mold actually does? If you're aware of the lore around it, do you see it matching up?

Tictac wasn't yeeted D1 because if you look at tictacs iso, D1 posting was actually reasonably good. It was not egregious enough to be worthy of a D1 yeet.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D2 because we eliminated a different scumbag that day.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D3 because Tet erroneously believed that there was a guilty on TWIE.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D4 because we yeeted a different scumbag that day.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D5 because y'all decided to gamethrow by yeeting Galron. THIS was the day that Tictac SHOULD have been yeeted.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D6 because Toogeloo decided that fakeclaiming as town was somehow a good idea. If not D5, THIS was the day we should've yeeted Tictac, and we probably WOULD have, if not for the fakeclaim.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D7 because we erroneously believed that yesterday was Mylo. HAD WE KNOWN that it wasn't Mylo on D7, we SHOULD have yeeted Tictac. But since we didn't, we operated under false ideas.

Gotta go.

Sorry, this post isn't finished; special work stuff tonight interrupted me. Can't finish, gotta rotatez but I'll redo the post when first able to.

[tictac]

This is a scumclaim from tictac.

It's refusing to take a stance.
It's refusing to do what you asked.

And more than that? Given the mold claims, it's also a scumclaim since a no-yeet would allow for another player to get molded, not to mention, another player to be nightkilled.

There is absolutely 0 reasons for a town player to vote no-yeet so this is just tictac trying to cut losses.

odds of a vote being correct in 2v4: 2/5
odds of a vote being correct in 2v3: 2/4 (> 2/5)
price of a wrong yeet is the same in both

2 votes and no hammer in 2v4 -> min 1 quaranteed scum in pool of 3
1 vote and no hammer in 2v3 -> min1 quaranteed scum in pool of 2

2v3 mech is way better than 2v4 mech.
i'll grant that molding may happen (if norw is town), but don't have a reason to think it has a relevant mech effect at all.


lets compare Titus protocol with doing literally thee opposite in a general case:
1. scummiest player votes (who probably has a poor voting history) then other players vote in a pool that contains that player
2. towniest player votes (who probably has a good voting history) then other player vote in a pool that contains

that towny player

it's pretty easy to see that option 1 goes thru 2 poor odds in order to lead to a coordinated scumyeet when option 2 goes thru 2 better odds.
it trades odds of success for avoidance of responsibility 4 the townie players just because it's more pleasant 4 them and they can.

u spent the day hardpushing me. is the reason u don't have a vote down just cause u think compliance w arbitrary rules is cool?

if i can't have a no-yeet i'm probs voting u, not even 4 this, but cause i think ur stance on molding as a guarantee townstamp from scum is too naive to be believable.

i'd rather do the noyeet tho, so i'll give it 24h yet.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Well we got confirmation, Tictac gonna vote no yeet or Mastina.
Theres ur info Titus.

[mastina]

This is a scumclaim from tictac.

It's refusing to take a stance.
It's refusing to do what you asked.

And more than that? Given the mold claims, it's also a scumclaim since a no-yeet would allow for another player to get molded, not to mention, another player to be nightkilled.

There is absolutely 0 reasons for a town player to vote no-yeet so this is just tictac trying to cut losses.

odds of a vote being correct in 2v4: 2/5
odds of a vote being correct in 2v3: 2/4 (> 2/5)
price of a wrong yeet is the same in both

2 votes and no hammer in 2v4 -> min 1 quaranteed scum in pool of 3
1 vote and no hammer in 2v3 -> min1 quaranteed scum in pool of 2

2v3 mech is way better than 2v4 mech.
i'll grant that molding may happen (if norw is town), but don't have a reason to think it has a relevant mech effect at all.


lets compare Titus protocol with doing literally thee opposite in a general case:
1. scummiest player votes (who probably has a poor voting history) then other players vote in a pool that contains that player
2. towniest player votes (who probably has a good voting history) then other player vote in a pool that contains

that towny player

it's pretty easy to see that option 1 goes thru 2 poor odds in order to lead to a coordinated scumyeet when option 2 goes thru 2 better odds.
it trades odds of success for avoidance of responsibility 4 the townie players just because it's more pleasant 4 them and they can.

u spent the day hardpushing me. is the reason u don't have a vote down just cause u think compliance w arbitrary rules is cool?

if i can't have a no-yeet i'm probs voting u, not even 4 this, but cause i think ur stance on molding as a guarantee townstamp from scum is too naive to be believable.

i'd rather do the noyeet tho, so i'll give it 24h yet.

This is egregiously wrong in a way to, using your own words, is a stance too naive to be believable.

In a vacuum, yes, lylo is better than Mylo.

We are not in a vacuum.

In this game, we both have a very obvious nighykill in the form of Three Bears (they are a universal townread with BOATLOADS of reasons to be town), but ALSO the looming threat of the mold.

You are blatantly and egregiously ignoring the very real threat that the mold possesses. And a nolim just means that someone who we COULD have had contributing, would instead be dead.

That, and even your stated reason for scumreading me is bullshit.

If every claim of being molded were a townstamp as you're saying that I am saying, then it'd mean that the scumteam would be precisely you+Norwee. Is that a scumteam which I have proposed?

…No?

…Yeah, thought not.

So, OBVIOUSLY, mold is not a guaranteed town stamp. One of Ceph/Roden MUST be scum. In other words, this post is bullshit in every way.

[mastina]

So you're treating this as 2vs4?

Yes.

There's three possible worlds.

World number one: mold is a scum ability. That means it is a 2v4. So the correct option is to treat it as such.

World number two: mold is a 3p ability, but the 3p is non-malevolent. In that situation, the 3p is not a threat to the town and I can't think of a single player here who, if they were 3p (barring tictac but tictac is just scum), hasn't shown genuine scumhunting. You, Norwee, Roden, Ceph, all have shown what, if you were 3p, would be real scumhunting. So the 3p in this scenario still helps the town in eliminating the scum, tictac.

World number three: mold is a 3p ability, and is malevolent. In this situation, we still aim for eliminating scum, and leave eliminating the mold to the last remaining scum. We, admittedly, cannot prevent the malevolent mold from winning on its own by votes, but presumably, the scum would not be able to win with the mold either and thus would need to eliminate the mold in order to win.

In all three worlds, we aim to eliminate two scum. And I still believe we are in the first world.

I detailed about fake voting to force the scummy people to vote first.

Oh, that.

Well, it seems tictac is refusing to play along, given...

lets see if sanity has a chance here
VOTE: no yeet

This is a scumclaim from tictac.

It's refusing to take a stance.
It's refusing to do what you asked.

And more than that? Given the mold claims, it's also a scumclaim since a no-yeet would allow for another player to get molded, not to mention, another player to be nightkilled.

There is absolutely 0 reasons for a town player to vote no-yeet so this is just tictac trying to cut losses.

OK, so why in your mind is Tictac not been yeet yet as an ascetic who should've been gone long ago, and do you think the power balance and flips indicates a 4 person scumteam?
What do you think the mold actually does? If you're aware of the lore around it, do you see it matching up?

Tictac wasn't yeeted D1 because if you look at tictacs iso, D1 posting was actually reasonably good. It was not egregious enough to be worthy of a D1 yeet.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D2 because we eliminated a different scumbag that day.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D3 because Tet erroneously believed that there was a guilty on TWIE.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D4 because we yeeted a different scumbag that day.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D5 because y'all decided to gamethrow by yeeting Galron. THIS was the day that Tictac SHOULD have been yeeted.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D6 because Toogeloo decided that fakeclaiming as town was somehow a good idea. If not D5, THIS was the day we should've yeeted Tictac, and we probably WOULD have, if not for the fakeclaim.

Tictac wasn't yeeted D7 because we erroneously believed that yesterday was Mylo. HAD WE KNOWN that it wasn't Mylo on D7, we SHOULD have yeeted Tictac. But since we didn't, we operated under false ideas.

Gotta go.

Sorry, this post isn't finished; special work stuff tonight interrupted me. Can't finish, gotta rotatez but I'll redo the post when first able to.

Back to this:
Tictac is alive because realistically, we only had a couple days where we could've eliminated Tictac.

As for the power balance: balance wise, I legit don't see how 4 scum is balanced, REGARDLESS of the mold being scum or 3p. We SHOULD have a 5th scum, except…well, we don't.

So whatever the mold does, it NEEDS to make up for the lack of an extra scum.

I believe that if the mold was a benevolent 3p, they'd have claimed by now, since there's genuinely no reason not to.

That there isn't a mold source claim, combined by the game being severely underpowered by only 4 scum, means malevolence, beit malevolent 3p or scum.

Which makes sense, since lorewise, mold is very much not benevolent and is a secondary antagonist in the game.

(Can explain better when home.)

[tictac]

This is egregiously wrong in a way to, using your own words, is a stance too naive to be believable.

In a vacuum, yes, lylo is better than Mylo.

We are not in a vacuum.

In this game, we both have a very obvious nighykill in the form of Three Bears (they are a universal townread with BOATLOADS of reasons to be town), but ALSO the looming threat of the mold.

u can't just agree w everything i say and then say i'm egragiously wrong

You are blatantly and egregiously ignoring the very real threat that the mold possesses.

so far i have observer zero mech effect from mold. maybe u have some specific fear youd like to adress rather than general fearmongering?

And a nolim just means that someone who we COULD have had contributing, would instead be dead.

ah yes. noraa going "i dunno" is supes helpful cotribution.
adding one more headless chicken to the flock doesn't make them better a better football-team.

That, and even your stated reason for scumreading me is bullshit.

If every claim of being molded were a townstamp as you're saying that I am saying, then it'd mean that the scumteam would be precisely you+Norwee. Is that a scumteam which I have proposed?

…No?

…Yeah, thought not.

Bears is molded when mold is a scum ability; Bears cannot be scum.

I am town; I have been molded; I am not scum.

seem to remember u saying this of roden as well. ii'll look 4 it if it's relevant.

So, OBVIOUSLY, mold is not a guaranteed town stamp. One of Ceph/Roden MUST be scum. In other words, this post is bullshit in every way.

u neglectected to point out anything that was wrong w the post.

(is this helpful for folks? debate like this is better placed in LYLO-situation where we would both have votes down and people could usefully play referee. feels like skipping a step)

[tictac]

oh one more point in favor of noyeet:
galron gets a msg and if a scumster neglected to mention one 4 today will be able to say so (potentially)

[NorwegianboyEE]

Still not a fan of no yeet idea.
This isn't a mini normal. We don't know if it's beneficial or not, and because i don't townread Tictac that means i'm even less inclined to consider the idea.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Besides, Galron did literally get their chance to send their message last night. And they either failed hard by targeting and obv nightkill, target scum that is lying about not receiving message, or didn't send whatsoever.
So whoop dee doo i don't care much for it.

[Roden]

Gonna be voting Tictac tomorrow. I'd like if they voted somebody first though, instead of sticking to No Elim.

[tictac]

Gonna be voting Tictac tomorrow. I'd like if they voted somebody first though, instead of sticking to No Elim.

see, that is either a lose-condition, or voting outside of (u,norw) will have been a mistake.
aka u leaving no valid incentive to comply