Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[Aristeia]

that sounds like directly engaging with your question

check the joke dismissal she makes after i make it clear that i'm interested in her slot, not her reads.

I literally told you I'm willing to walk you through any of my reads that you think are wrong.

What are your reads?

What do you disagree with me on?

Do you really think this is an unreasonable conversation to have?

[humaneatingmonkey]

not ruling out the possibility that we are having a miscommunication, but you can see how i think you're trying to drag your feet across the mud when prompted.

[tenebrousluminary]

have kind of a hard time believing that monkey really thinks there's no way ari and datisi can be town here. this aggressive posturing feels a bit bluff-y to me

That

was

overblown, but I think monkey is making a better argument than Ari right now.

Would you like to explain your thought process ? : )

Sure.

When he accused you of OMGUS, your defense that he never voted you is one I find unconvincing. I don't think a vote is required for OMGUS.

I don't think your point about "thread ghosting" is very compelling. People have schedules and other hobbies. 521 does not seem fair.

You yourself have noted that your readlist was not fully genuine, if I am understanding your "trap" correctly, so why is it strange that someone noticed?

I asked you which read you wanted me to elaborate on because I don't feel like answering busy work questions.

While there is nothing necessarily wrong with this, I can see why monkey sees it as dodging the question.

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: eyes without a face

[tenebrousluminary]

The fact that you can't answer an easy question like "which read are you interested in" and then you begin dodging and shouting "OMGUS!" and "Why won't you answer me!?" is kind of an awful look for you.

Maybe I should go and look at the interaction rather than relying on your dueling narratives.

[fireisredsir]

that sounds like directly engaging with your question

check the joke dismissal she makes after i make it clear that i'm interested in her slot, not her reads.

yeah, don't worry, i read it. a town would question a readlist because they see something about it that looks off. a scum would question a readlist because they know it's early in the game and so it's an easy thing to pick on. when you questioned her on a readlist, she wanted to see what prompted you to question it (and was clearly very willing to answer your questions if you had them). you kind of slid around that, and said you were interested in her overall thought process. she gave you another chance, asking what read specifically. you didn't have an answer.

that makes it clear that you were questioning the readlist not due to anything you saw that felt off about it, but just because you felt like "the whole thing was bullshit". that looks way more like a scum approach than a town approach, and she rightly called you out for that

[humaneatingmonkey]

What are your reads?

What do you disagree with me on?

Do you really think this is an unreasonable conversation to have?

Ari, it's clear that I'm not interested in the reads themselves whether i disagree or agree because that can happen even if you're town or scum (that i would agree or disagree). that conversation doesn't matter. what matters is that the reads came from a genuine thought process that you would give me if you answer my prompt.

here, you're going back on forth on whether the readslist was genuine or not. Is it a trap? Is it real? What?

[Aristeia]

You yourself have noted that your readlist was not fully genuine, if I am understanding your "trap" correctly, so why is it strange that someone noticed?

my readlist is genuine.

there are reads in there that I can see someone having a legitimate issue with based on thread progress since at the time.

the fact that when I ask him he doesn't really want to have a conversation about a particular read is a red flag to me because when I evaluate read lists I usually compare to my own reads and look for areas where we have dissonance.

The fact that he couldn't come up with a single dissonant read to talk about implies he didn't have any reads of his own and he's just asking me busy work questions that he's not particularly interested in.

[Aristeia]

What are your reads?

What do you disagree with me on?

Do you really think this is an unreasonable conversation to have?

Ari, it's clear that I'm not interested in the reads themselves whether i disagree or agree because that can happen even if you're town or scum (that i would agree or disagree). that conversation doesn't matter. what matters is that the reads came from a genuine thought process that you would give me if you answer my prompt.

here, you're going back on forth on whether the readslist was genuine or not. Is it a trap? Is it real? What?

do you even have reads?

[Nero Cain]

I would like to know why you think Nero Cain is town.

Are you scum reading me?

[Eyes without a face]

I would like to know why you think Nero Cain is town.

Town Nero is aggressive and stingy. Scum Nero is nice and gentle. Simple.

[tenebrousluminary]

The fact that you can't answer an easy question like "which read are you interested in" and then you begin dodging and shouting "OMGUS!" and "Why won't you answer me!?" is kind of an awful look for you.

Maybe I should go and look at the interaction rather than relying on your dueling narratives.

To me it seems clear that the "which read" question was clearly answered with "all of them," and even if you did not like that answer, I do not understand why you are getting on monkey's case about it and framing not just choosing one as some sort of evil maneuver targeted to waste your time. You've now wasted far more time with this argument than it would have taken to answer.

[humaneatingmonkey]

a town would question a readlist because they see something about it that looks off. a scum would question a readlist because they know it's early in the game and so it's an easy thing to pick on. when you questioned her on a readlist, she wanted to see what prompted you to question it (and was clearly very willing to answer your questions if you had them). you kind of slid around that, and said you were interested in her overall thought process. she gave you another chance, asking what read specifically. you didn't have an answer.

this is blatant framing. there isn't an easy prescribed behavior for how town or scum should react on a bullshit readlist. a town can easy question a readslist because it's an easy thing to get reads on.

[Aristeia]

I don't think your point about "thread ghosting" is very compelling. People have schedules and other hobbies. 521 does not seem fair.

except he's the one who initiated the conversation and when I turned it around on him and accused him of not having reads and pushing me in bad faith and his response was "lol" and then he disappeared from the thread.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You've now wasted far more time with this argument than it would have taken to answer.

Bingo.

[Yeet]

You each dodged around each other's questions because you expected the other person to answer your questions first.

That's how I see it. I don't ascribe any particular scum motivation to either player from this.

[tenebrousluminary]

You yourself have noted that your readlist was not fully genuine, if I am understanding your "trap" correctly, so why is it strange that someone noticed?

my readlist is genuine.

there are reads in there that I can see someone having a legitimate issue with based on thread progress since at the time.

the fact that when I ask him he doesn't really want to have a conversation about a particular read is a red flag to me because when I evaluate read lists I usually compare to my own reads and look for areas where we have dissonance.

The fact that he couldn't come up with a single dissonant read to talk about implies he didn't have any reads of his own and he's just asking me busy work questions that he's not particularly interested in.

I simply don't agree with your characterization. I don't think that necessarily makes you scum though.

[Yeet]

You've now wasted far more time with this argument than it would have taken to answer.

Bingo.

It is not the fault of Aristeia alone, if that is the point you are trying to make.

[fua]

I scumread Tenebro hard based on 116 and the attempt to defuse suspicion by essentially saying it’s just a bandwagon

I don't remember doing this. What do you mean?

“I’m so popular, everyone is looking at me” is basically a degradation of the reason to actually suspect you and dismisses it as a trend rather than a veritable case.

I am not sure how you got that idea from what I wrote, but okay.

It would be difficult for me to think any case against me had merit when I know it to be wrong.

Yes, but I would think you would at least go and defend your position or acknowledge the votes on you. Your playstyle so far has been very dismissive and I find that that typically comes from scum.

Fua looks objectively terrible in this exchange, and isn't even scumreading Tenesbro's 116 for the correct reason (which is that reads like pocketing of Yeet.)

How is it objectively terrible? What am I supposed to do instead? I brought new ideas to the table regarding Tenebro because he's a genuine scumread of mine. I think recent posts show that he's a little more likely to be noob town including Wu's opinion on him, so I'd like to see how you find it scummy.

[Aristeia]

The fact that you can't answer an easy question like "which read are you interested in" and then you begin dodging and shouting "OMGUS!" and "Why won't you answer me!?" is kind of an awful look for you.

Maybe I should go and look at the interaction rather than relying on your dueling narratives.

To me it seems clear that the "which read" question was clearly answered with "all of them," and even if you did not like that answer, I do not understand why you are getting on monkey's case about it and framing not just choosing one as some sort of evil maneuver targeted to waste your time. You've now wasted far more time with this argument than it would have taken to answer.

all of them is not an acceptable response to me as it shows me he has no reads of his own to compare my reads to.

it means he's either scum asking me a busywork question to look busy or town who is not prepared to have a conversation on anything.

[humaneatingmonkey]

except he's the one who initiated the conversation and when I turned it around on him and accused him of not having reads and pushing me in bad faith and his response was "lol" and then he disappeared from the thread.

That's so malicious. You keep coming back to this argument like closing this game to live my life is the scummiest thing ever.

[tenebrousluminary]

I don't think your point about "thread ghosting" is very compelling. People have schedules and other hobbies. 521 does not seem fair.

except he's the one who initiated the conversation and when I turned it around on him and accused him of not having reads and pushing me in bad faith and his response was "lol" and then he disappeared from the thread.

I didn't think "lol" was a good response but I could not care less that he then chose that moment to stop posting.

[tenebrousluminary]

I don't think your point about "thread ghosting" is very compelling. People have schedules and other hobbies. 521 does not seem fair.

except he's the one who initiated the conversation and when I turned it around on him and accused him of not having reads and pushing me in bad faith and his response was "lol" and then he disappeared from the thread.

I didn't think "lol" was a good response but I could not care less that he then chose that moment to stop posting.

Sorry, this sounded less kind than I intended. I just don't think it's scum indicative.

[Nordom]

I am on Aristeia's side in this discussion, but I think humaneatingmonkey is possibly town anyway. I think this is TvT with Aristeia stronger town to me, to be clear

I like this read, because I got a similar impression, especially with Aristeia's "trap" comment earlier in the day.

[humaneatingmonkey]

do you even have reads?

there's really no sense in having any reads early this game. i'm trying to sort you and datisi.