Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[fua]

Quick note that Scorp plays scummy no matter what alignment he is. I'm going to just treat him like N_M and wait to see what happens instead of gambling on it.

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: Nordom

[Datisi]

sup fucks, i'm back from my classes, i'm sure y'all are very happy to hear that

Datisi night actualky be scum, though. I need to look at that slot again.

What made you post this?

I said I disagreed with her scumreads which I thought were wrong, went back to check if she was SRing anyone else and noticed she was voting Datisi.

what made you change your mind from "i don't see what people see in datisi" or whatever the hecc it was

[Nero Cain]

i'm sure y'all are very happy to hear that

eh.....

[Mizzytastic]

The third rule of go is

ko

which prevents situations where a player immediately returns the board back to the previous position. In the image below if you have just played one of the red marked stones your opponent could not immediately capture back.

---

Official Votecount 1.6

Datisi (5): skitter30, Yeet, humaneatingmonkey, Nordom, tenebrousluminary

[E-5]

Nordom (3): fireisredsir, DeasVail, Nero Cain
humaneatingmonkey (2): Aristeia, Cape90
fua (1): VP Baltar
skitter30 (1): Datisi
Eyes without a face (1): Save The Dragons
Yeet (1): Frogsterking
GeneralWu (1): fua

Not Voting (4): Scorpious, MalcolmTucker, Eyes without a face, GeneralWu

With 19 players alive, it takes 10 votes to achieve an eliminaton.

Day 1 will end in (expired on 2022-03-12 05:15:00).

click here for joined mod iso.

[Datisi]

nero, if you wanna tell me something, can you use more than a single word?

[Nero Cain]

meh

[VP Baltar]

but how do you know that? Have we played b4? I think that fluff posting in lieu of content is a pretty scummy thing to do, no? I mean maybe you could make the argument that I'm not very good and I can only spot low-level scumplay.

I think maybe we have played before? Or maybe I've meta read a game you were in, idk. I'm aware of who you are at least and my impression of your reputation is that you know how to play mafia.

I don't disagree with you that fluff posting is a thing to consider when scum hunting. There is a decent amount of it this game. What I'm saying is that it is pretty unlikely that ALL the scum are doing that, and that seems to be the only criteria you are seriously looking at .

Another difficulty there is sorting the town fluff from the scum fluff.

[Datisi]

So Datisi makes no attempt to pressure my slot even though he admits it's scummy, and didn't attempt to parse even further when prompted by Nero. No hot takes and no solves, just unproductive questions thus far.

this is like, one of those times where i want to ask - what do you expect me to pressure you about? your slot is scummy because you dropped into the game, made a pretty much meme push on me, threw weak questions at ari, and left when she voted you. there is nothing to parse there, you and i both know that you're a better scum player than that, so it's not like i can actually draw a "well he's scum completely fucking up the game, gg" conclusion from that. and the only possible pressure i can put on you is general "what are your reads", which like. i find more value in seeing what you come up with yourself than what you come up with if i'm yelling at you about it.

Content to just push on players who are getting attention thrown their way and I haven't really gotten the impression that it's a town tell of "Pressuring for information" from them.

i have seriously pushed two (2) people, only one of which could even be classified as someone getting attention their way (and even then i was the first to pressure them!) so this is a bunch of bullshit

why is it not noob town trying to scumhunt?

tell me you didn't understand my post without telling me - because town, noob or otherwise, isn't capable of getting cognitively overloaded. andeven if it were a reaction test, noob town isn't gonna do such a complex reaction test. and deasvail isn't a noob. so like what is the point of this question.

[Datisi]

reading through page 22, i'm townreading ari and scumreading monkey. jury's still out whether i'm getting biased because of his nonsense read on me, though.

537 is what i'm thinking reading though so that's goodposting
and 555

561 feels like a mischaracterization of what ari's point actually was there and what she was really doing, so this is a note for me to take another look later on about whether tenebro's progression on my slot checks out - that vote back to me once i started picking up votes again felt icky

Town lean on VP. I don't care about what reads he has here, but he took the time to explain them which I don't think scum would do at this point given that many players are posting read lists that are not explained at all.

i think baltar would have really good reasons to force himself to post a nice readslist early on in the game too, so i don't think that's especially townie

@baltar, is there a reason why you did not include me in the early readslist? i see you have a null category, and pretty sure i had posted at the time

can i find any townies in this game, blease

Datisi hit me up when you're here

you're gonna get hit up don't ya worry

ok i'm at like page 28 and i have to stop for now, will be back in like 20 minutes

[VP Baltar]

@baltar, is there a reason why you did not include me in the early readslist? i see you have a null category, and pretty sure i had posted at the time

I started with the full list of names at the start of my catch up and was slotting them into those piles as I was going along and getting feelings one way or the other. So while I had a null category, by the time I finished read I was kind of tired and didn't feel like writing out WHY I felt null on a bunch of people still (including you), I just knew I wasn't ready to make an alignment call on those people yet.

[Datisi]

Nordom, who is scum?

Uh, Daitisi I guess, but I'm waiting for them respond.

who?

also, respond to what? you didn't ask me anything

It is interesting that Datisi is pretty much universally very unpopular today (except in Aristeia’s eyes, but I worry she may be biased. Nevertheless I am still keeping her opinion very much in mind because I presume she knows him well).

where are you doing this, exactly? you've started tunnelling me from the start of the game, you never actually gave a concrete reason why i'm scum, and you never re-evaluated in thread. so like... what exactly are you doing?

(also you never put an avatar on >_>)

I think we should mount the pressure on Datisi sooner rather than later.

Let’s get some wagons going, guys. I don’t want to stall around all day and move last minute and scramble when we can just go sheep sheep sheep.

"i'm keeping ari's thoughts in mind... but also, everyone, turn your brain off and sheep me on this read i gave no reasoning for!!"

[Datisi]

Overall, I find it helpful when I have a big catch up like that to take notes and sort how I feel about people. I just decided to post my hip-shot notes in thread.

I don't mind changing my reads if something shifts for me.

...

I think we should mount the pressure on Datisi sooner rather than later.

Being real with you, it's unlikely I ever support a D1 Datisi wagon.

... (but louder this time)

[Datisi]

What's the bullet point case on datisi again?

Basically, Daitisi was one to throw their hat into the popular pressure of Wu and Monkey. It just came off as lazy and convenient to me.

that's not my name

did you actually read this game or did you just read a bad cliffnotes version in the scum pt? i said that i find monkey scummy on the surface but that i'm aware it doesn't automatically make him scum since i know he's better than that. and i agreed with generalwu's iso being bad. that's it. this post is kinda implying that i did not do anything else this game up until that point (due to the "lazy" comment), which like??? push on tenebro? push on skitter? HE-LLO?

Pressure, throwing shade, what does it matter? My point is that he felt to give attention to him when Monkey was an obvious player of contention. If it were a "passing observation" it'd be one thing, but he felt that he had to get involved in the process with the pressure on Monkey. It wouldn't be such a red flag with me, but Datisi was also involved with the shit with Wu, which I felt was a weak push in the first place.

lol the backpedalling

again, i said the shitty iso up until that point didn't make him scum (he probably is scum, but not because of that part). and where did i "get involved"? i had like, at most ONE post on generalwu, and that post happened after i got shit for

ignoring

nero's case on wu! like

[VP Baltar]

Overall, I find it helpful when I have a big catch up like that to take notes and sort how I feel about people. I just decided to post my hip-shot notes in thread.

I don't mind changing my reads if something shifts for me.

...

I think we should mount the pressure on Datisi sooner rather than later.

Being real with you, it's unlikely I ever support a D1 Datisi wagon.

... (but louder this time)

What's this supposed to mean? I'm not following

[Datisi]

i was expecting you'd at least catch that the second one is meant to ask "what/how/why?"

the first one is me wondering whether you've been studying guardians and are trying to purposefully drop as many things that you know i consider towntells from you as you can

[Datisi]

Datisi hasn't pressured me actually. Which makes me suspicious because if Datisi remembers me as the one who "ripped through town" in that one game, then he must have due cause to pressure me. Also, when prompted by Nero, he gave up assessing my meta at the mere sight of the word "daddy". I believe Datisi would have spent some proper time sorting me. Datisi is also bolder to announce his reads, however bad. He also tries to create a townblock in my experience. That doesn't happen here. His participation does not influence this game, which is pinging my bottom.

oh bOY WHEre to start

there is nothing to pressure you on. i remember you as a good scum player, yes. so when i see a good scum player shitting the bed, that doesn't make me wanna pressure them, that makes me wanna leave them alone to see what is up. and you had no substance for me to pressure you over anyway.

i don't do second-hand meta, i've said this many times in prior games. i never intended to actually read your iso there or whatever, i just opened it because i bored and wanted to see if anything interesting would catch my attention. the beginning of your iso did. so i made a funny post about it. then i lost interest in it.

have i not been announcing my reads? and like, "he tries to create a townblock and he's not doing that here" is kinda bad reasoning because we played 2 micro blitz games like 2 years ago, where i wasn't constantly getting shit on from the get-go. do you think that maybe, just maybe, any of those factors influence the way i play? of course you don't, you jumped to "datisi scum" because you need some bullshit to push

[Datisi]

If Datisi's replies in a satisfactory manner, I'm switching my vote to VP.

VOTE: nordom

gee, i wonder where i saw this kinda reasoning before

last two games i saw a post like this, it came from scum both times

(i'm not yet certain if i wanna end up on nordom, but this feels fitting to change now, both as a scumread on nordom and as a not-quite-scumread-anymore on skitter)

[VP Baltar]

i was expecting you'd at least catch that the second one is meant to ask "what/how/why?"

the first one is me wondering whether you've been studying guardians and are trying to purposefully drop as many things that you know i consider towntells from you as you can

On why I wouldn't vote you: I think if you're town, you're a huge asset so it is nonsense to lim you early game. If you're scum, that is likely to get sorted by night actions, or the number of people in this game who can read you correctly more often than not. So yeah, pretty anti-D1 dats lim unless there was an EXTREMELY compelling case.

On the notes, vote changing. It did occur to me when I posted my notes that if I was scum I would totally do that to subliminally get you on my side because of Guardians, so you probably should disregard that as a towntell going forward. What I said in Guardians is true...I take notes as town, especially on catch ups, and talk in the PT as scum, but we explicitly talked about that in Guardians so it is entirely WIFOM at this point.

[Datisi]

I assume Datisi is able to create a townblock because that's how i remember his playstyle in early games.

9-player games
that had a 3-day deadline
where i wasn't getting constantly shit on right out of the gate

bruh

[VP Baltar]

I should probably give nordom a good look this afternoon now that he is getting some pressure. I didn't love his interactions with me, but also considered I was just being annoyed with him after a long catch up.

Hey Datisi, what are your thoughts on what I said about fua while I have you here?

[Datisi]

i was expecting you'd at least catch that the second one is meant to ask "what/how/why?"

the first one is me wondering whether you've been studying guardians and are trying to purposefully drop as many things that you know i consider towntells from you as you can

On why I wouldn't vote you: I think if you're town, you're a huge asset so it is nonsense to lim you early game. If you're scum, that is likely to get sorted by night actions, or the number of people in this game who can read you correctly more often than not. So yeah, pretty anti-D1 dats lim unless there was an EXTREMELY compelling case.

On the notes, vote changing. It did occur to me when I posted my notes that if I was scum I would totally do that to subliminally get you on my side because of Guardians, so you probably should disregard that as a towntell going forward. What I said in Guardians is true...I take notes as town, especially on catch ups, and talk in the PT as scum, but we explicitly talked about that in Guardians so it is entirely WIFOM at this point.

so i'm not yet openwolfing hard enough for you to consider yeeting me? noted

it's not just that, it's also the usage of "hip-shot" wording (yes, in fact, i am aware that suspecting someone for reusing a phase they once used in a game of mafia like a year ago is bonkers, shut the fuck up), and the fact you made sure to say the word "notes" twice

and it's like

if you're scum, obviously you want me to townread you. but, you know that those tiny bits of my "things that town!vp does" list won't help you because we both know they're on that list. bUT ALSO, you know that i know that. so now i'm like, would scum!baltar purposefully drop these little hints, *knowing* that i'm gonna notice them and start losing sleep over them, in order to get into my head?

because i know how much you wanna fool me, but my issue is, like, in the times when i first noticed you doing these tells, they felt more natural. like it made sense for you to bring up notes at the time in oligarchy or guardians because you were catching up on a lot. but here, they were mentioned in the context of a readslist from a half-shitposty first 10 pages of a game. and the "changing votes" thing, originally they were said with much more confidence and self-assurance that i've noticed town!baltar has, while here they just feel said to make sure they've been said

[Datisi]

Hey Datisi, what are your thoughts on what I said about fua while I have you here?

i'mma keep it real, i kinda skimmed over them because i was trying to make sure i'm up-to-date on major events, especially those concerning my slot

vaguely going from memory, i'd say "the reasoning seemed fine but i'm not overly convinced by it", but i plan on going back and rechecking some slots, that included in my tenebro re-eval, so

also i'm gonna finally go eat something, later

[Nordom]

If Datisi's replies in a satisfactory manner, I'm switching my vote to VP.

VOTE: nordom

gee, i wonder where i saw this kinda reasoning before

last two games i saw a post like this, it came from scum both times

(i'm not yet certain if i wanna end up on nordom, but this feels fitting to change now, both as a scumread on nordom and as a not-quite-scumread-anymore on skitter)

Hello, maf

[Nordom]

I would be interested to see what fireisred picked up on regarding Nordom, but I don't think that Nordom is town. I will attempt to explain why I think this but I'm not sure it will be exactly right. In any case though, what struck me as I was reading the latter part of the game was I guess, just the way that Nordom is playing. There is clear activity, and lots of asking questions of other players, but most of these actually appear rather pointless. 707 as an example, feels like it comes from a place of "hmmm i want to ask this person a question" rather than having any real town basis. But also, regardless of pointlessness, why is someone so keen on looking like they're asking other people questions, so deiriding of people engaging with them? The interactions with fireisred, with skitter, with me even, do not feel like real attempts to actually figure someone out or get a sense of what they are thinking. It's overall just very dismissive.

The Datisi read and progression in particular makes no sense and does not feel like it comes from a genuine place. Nordom was fairly consistent in scumreading Datisi for a while there, to the point where he apparently believed he was the first on the wagon (which I doubt given Nordom's 493 specifically talking about wagons). There was also encouragement of Yeet's Datisi suspicion in 724, but then in 754 he gives the cop out of "if Datisi replies in a satisfactory manner, I'm switching my vote to VP". If Nordom thinks Datisi is scum, why is he almost.. expecting to be moving his vote? I don't get the sense of real genuine scumhunting processes behind this. There isn't any interest in why other people might think Datisi is town, for example.

More recently 883 feels like an attempt to distract from a blunder by a desperate attack on me?

VOTE: Nordom

This is a move that I think is a scum play on me. My read is that Deas decided to push on me when they saw that I was obstinate to their posts and wouldn't be pocketed so easily. This is kind of like them "cutting me off the pass" before I could potentially vote them.