Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[fireisredsir]

They've kind of been piling on to individual wagons and their three votes have just been whatever's easiest to pick out at the time. I think their callout of Tenebro was okay but I also want to see who they actually scumread throughout today.

mm idk about this characterization. mediator, sure ok, that's just kinda what i do sometimes. dunno why thats a scummy thing. but for my votes, i voted tene before anyone besides datisi and everyone else piled on after, and i was the first to vote nordom (although nero had mentioned suspicion before that), and everyone voted after. idk what my 3rd vote was, unless it was rvs and that's rvs. but anyway, is that piling onto wagons?

my main scumreads atm are nordom's slot, monkey, and tene.

[fireisredsir]

Fire and Wu might actually be scumbuddies now that I think about it. Especially since Fire linked a game where he plays completely differently to how he is now and stated that he looks townie here for it.

huh? he was playing exactly the same at the point that i linked it. that was a long time ago. since then he's disappeared and done nothing and that's def more scummy than the game i linked, but you can't say that because he deviated from it AFTER I made the comparison that my comparison is invalid

[fireisredsir]

wu hasn't done anything to make me think he's town (my meta read = he's always a fluffposter early, so that means nothing to me, and i don't see any reason to suspect him for it) but imo he's not a very useful place to push yet for the same reasons you said scorp isn't

[MalcolmTucker]

Since I've not cast one yet, I'll go:

VOTE: GeneralWu

[MalcolmTucker]

wu hasn't done anything to make me think he's town (my meta read = he's always a fluffposter early, so that means nothing to me, and i don't see any reason to suspect him for it) but imo he's not a very useful place to push yet for the same reasons you said scorp isn't

I'm obviously not conclusive on him being mafia yet and want to hear more but happy for a placeholder vote to sit there for now.

[fua]

Fire and Wu might actually be scumbuddies now that I think about it. Especially since Fire linked a game where he plays completely differently to how he is now and stated that he looks townie here for it.

huh? he was playing exactly the same at the point that i linked it. that was a long time ago. since then he's disappeared and done nothing and that's def more scummy than the game i linked, but you can't say that because he deviated from it AFTER I made the comparison that my comparison is invalid

No, he was actually making an effort to solve within the first day compared to what he's done here which is practically nothing. He's barely given any opinions at all here while in that game he was actually being considerate and taking people's approaches into account.

If you think he looks more scummy now then why isn't he a scumread for you?

[Nero Cain]

TBF, he IS reading the game b/c I keep seeing his name online

[Nero Cain]

i mean sure maybe he's just bad or something and im in turn being bad by pushing him but I mean...

[fua]

I mean... he already has defenders and people who decided to not focus on him or were dismissive of the case. So I'd say that's a lot more useful than Scorp who had none and always plays this way.

[skitter30]

By the way, I town-read Skitter.

If i can ask, why are you ending up with a townread of me? The impression that i got during our convo is that you were scumreading me

Also what did you mean abt the drink?

Why would you get the impression that I scum-read?

Because of the way you were calling it 'strange that i picked the 3 most talked abt people to talk abt'

[fua]

Also, it's not impossible that he's trying to mimic his town game here because he knows that it would be a way to TR him regardless.

[skitter30]

Going to the effort of "reading the game" (obviously not verifiable, but they at least pretended to) and then posting townreads on Nero and VP and then disappearing is also just a weird scum move. More likely imo that townreads on Nero and VP were just the most notable things to Eyes, who didn't think to say much else/got distracted/whatever. Scum probably thinks "well shit, I should probably talk about other people too"

Eh i guess i dont view this as a weird scum move or something particularly unlikely to come from scum

[GeneralWu]

TBF, he IS reading the game b/c I keep seeing his name online

Yeah I am, but I prefer posting when I have a computer.

[skitter30]

VOTE: Nordom

R.e. this vote, i have to say that while i find nordam's posting to you distasteful, i'm not sure i can say i find him scummy

[fireisredsir]

No, he was actually making an effort to solve within the first day compared to what he's done here which is practically nothing. He's barely given any opinions at all here while in that game he was actually being considerate and taking people's approaches into account.

If you think he looks more scummy now then why isn't he a scumread for you?

at that point (like 12 or so hours in) in both games he was like 80% fluff with a couple minor relevant comments, mostly about theoretical play. that's the same to me.

now since then he's disappeared. is that scummier? yeah. is he for sure scum for it? no, he's only played in small games and this is a huge and fast one that he could easily get lost in. is it also LHF that maf will take advantage of if he's town? yeah. is it an appealing day 1 lim? not at the moment, to me at least

[Nero Cain]

Alright, this wagon on Wu feels pretty weak. You can argue that "Well, they haven't really scumhunted, they've lurked, and yadda yadda yadda", but I mean it hasn't even been 24 hours since this game skyrocketed into an absurd twenty pages.

Not to mention, I'm getting some opportunistic vibes going on with these votes.

VOTE: Daitisi

Content to just push on players who are getting attention thrown their way and I haven't really gotten the impression that it's a town tell of "Pressuring for information" from them.

this is why I decided to vote Nord. I felt like the defense was strange.

he's also being a hypocrite by saying that the votes on Wu were opportunistic (weren't there like only 2 or 3 SRS votes on him?) while joining the dats wagon

[MalcolmTucker]

VOTE: Datisi

Post 39 feels unnatural to me.

Frogsterking, you may need to do some research on what to expect from this game.

tenebro on the other hand walked in, saw that i'm getting pressure, dropped a vote on me based on weak reasoning, and left.

Did you feel pressured by one vote?

Are you expecting strong reasoning so early in the game?

Datisi do you think I am meme-pushing you? Is that why you feel rather unaffected by my push on you? I can assure you that I am not memeing with this push on you.

anyone who thinks they can lockscum me on page 2 is lying either to themselves or to everyone else

you may not be meming but the push itself is a meme

I see a contradiction here. If you really were so unconcerned about this push, you would not need to dismiss it this way.

I'm already controversial. How exciting!

why does this excite you

Why shouldn't it? Everyone wants to talk about me! I'm drinking in the attention! Plus, I can't get any information from how players approach me if there is universal agreement about me. That's boring.

I am not sure how you got that idea from what I wrote, but okay.

It would be difficult for me to think any case against me had merit when I know it to be wrong.

I am not trying to be dismissive of anyone. But I do think it goes without saying that I do not agree with votes against me.

My hope was to be a good listener. It sounds like I'm not doing well.

It seems like you are simultaneously demanding that I be defensive and demanding that I go on an offensive in order to satisfy you.

Convincing you is not at the top of my priority list right now anyway, thank you. I am planning to engage with more people and trying to hunt, but you are the one who said I was being dismissive. Suspecting me for responding to it seems at odds with your point that I am suspicious for not responding to the suspicions of others.

Like. If you take issue with votes on you, then start a dialogue, like you literally stated yourself.

Thank you, but I plan to play the game my way. I'm sorry if that does not line up with your ideas about townie behavior.

VOTE: fua

This person chose to pick a fight with me because they perceived me as a weak player they could win an argument against, but their attack did not make sense. Furthermore, in the bottom of 266, they treat me like they know I am town.

some people not mentioned in your list haven't even posted?? excuse me for asking i guess

class starting back again, cheers

I don't like the way Datisi focused on nitpicking rather than the substance of Nero Cain's argument.

@tenebros, re your previous post to me

I'm not "crushing off" your post, I just didn't think it provided particularly strong reasoning for your play so far from a town POV.

In pretty much every post here you're basically either incredibly defensive, something you thought may have been a mafia tell for Datisi, you joke about being suspected, or you don't actually acknowledge any reasoning against you and try to twist it against the person accusing you to take the heat off without having to make any substantive points.

Like there's basically nothing in here which gives anyone a better idea as to your alignment either way despite there being plenty of posts, it's mostly deflection designed at directing suspicion onto someone else after you got some heat for a fairly weak first vote.

[skitter30]

- i additionally dislike fua, nero, eyes

Why Nero tho?

Dont like his pushes/trajectories, particularly on wu and yeet

[MalcolmTucker]

Alright, this wagon on Wu feels pretty weak. You can argue that "Well, they haven't really scumhunted, they've lurked, and yadda yadda yadda", but I mean it hasn't even been 24 hours since this game skyrocketed into an absurd twenty pages.

Not to mention, I'm getting some opportunistic vibes going on with these votes.

VOTE: Daitisi

Content to just push on players who are getting attention thrown their way and I haven't really gotten the impression that it's a town tell of "Pressuring for information" from them.

this is why I decided to vote Nord. I felt like the defense was strange.

he's also being a hypocrite by saying that the votes on Wu were opportunistic (weren't there like only 2 or 3 SRS votes on him?) while joining the dats wagon

Nordom's play has been incredibly suspect but I dunno if they're actually mafia, feel like their play has been inconsistent to a degree you wouldn't expect from a mafia player perhaps wanting to be more careful and measured. But could just be inexperienced newbie struggling to blend in and then doubling down out of panic.

[fireisredsir]

Also, it's not impossible that he's trying to mimic his town game here because he knows that it would be a way to TR him regardless.

yea, it's very possible. i didn't ever townread him i just think it's a boring place to push. tbh if he's scum i don't think he's good enough to survive very long anyway so other places are more interesting to look for now and will also give us more information

[fua]

Alright, this wagon on Wu feels pretty weak. You can argue that "Well, they haven't really scumhunted, they've lurked, and yadda yadda yadda", but I mean it hasn't even been 24 hours since this game skyrocketed into an absurd twenty pages.

Not to mention, I'm getting some opportunistic vibes going on with these votes.

VOTE: Daitisi

Content to just push on players who are getting attention thrown their way and I haven't really gotten the impression that it's a town tell of "Pressuring for information" from them.

this is why I decided to vote Nord. I felt like the defense was strange.

he's also being a hypocrite by saying that the votes on Wu were opportunistic (weren't there like only 2 or 3 SRS votes on him?) while joining the dats wagon

Nordom's play has been incredibly suspect but I dunno if they're actually mafia, feel like their play has been inconsistent to a degree you wouldn't expect from a mafia player perhaps wanting to be more careful and measured. But could just be inexperienced newbie struggling to blend in and then doubling down out of panic.

No, he's apparently not a newbie judging by his comments throughout the game. I really can't see him being partners with anyone that wouldn't tell him to shut up in the scum thread.

[fua]

Also, it's not impossible that he's trying to mimic his town game here because he knows that it would be a way to TR him regardless.

yea, it's very possible. i didn't ever townread him i just think it's a boring place to push. tbh if he's scum i don't think he's good enough to survive very long anyway so other places are more interesting to look for now and will also give us more information

His lim would give us info now since you're stepping up to bat for him and three people left his wagon without any improvement on his end of things.

[skitter30]

if you're scum, obviously you want me to townread you. but, you know that those tiny bits of my "things that town!vp does" list won't help you because we both know they're on that list. bUT ALSO, you know that i know that. so now i'm like, would scum!baltar purposefully drop these little hints, *knowing* that i'm gonna notice them and start losing sleep over them, in order to get into my head?

because i know how much you wanna fool me, but my issue is, like, in the times when i first noticed you doing these tells, they felt more natural. like it made sense for you to bring up notes at the time in oligarchy or guardians because you were catching up on a lot. but here, they were mentioned in the context of a readslist from a half-shitposty first 10 pages of a game. and the "changing votes" thing, originally they were said with much more confidence and self-assurance that i've noticed town!baltar has, while here they just feel said to make sure they've been said

I actually kinda like this

[MalcolmTucker]

Alright, this wagon on Wu feels pretty weak. You can argue that "Well, they haven't really scumhunted, they've lurked, and yadda yadda yadda", but I mean it hasn't even been 24 hours since this game skyrocketed into an absurd twenty pages.

Not to mention, I'm getting some opportunistic vibes going on with these votes.

VOTE: Daitisi

Content to just push on players who are getting attention thrown their way and I haven't really gotten the impression that it's a town tell of "Pressuring for information" from them.

this is why I decided to vote Nord. I felt like the defense was strange.

he's also being a hypocrite by saying that the votes on Wu were opportunistic (weren't there like only 2 or 3 SRS votes on him?) while joining the dats wagon

Nordom's play has been incredibly suspect but I dunno if they're actually mafia, feel like their play has been inconsistent to a degree you wouldn't expect from a mafia player perhaps wanting to be more careful and measured. But could just be inexperienced newbie struggling to blend in and then doubling down out of panic.

No, he's apparently not a newbie judging by his comments throughout the game. I really can't see him being partners with anyone that wouldn't tell him to shut up in the scum thread.

Fair enough, the game is large enough anyway that he could have probably pulled back a bit to allow the heat to drift onto someone else, far from being nailed on to go out even at this stage.

[fua]

Compare that to Scorpious receiving comments about his play and not receiving a single vote this game and I think that they're clearly different situations.