Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[Frogsterking]

in the flurry of early posts, while participating in them live i kinda mentally binned yeet as new and confident and that i would probably disagree with a lot of his takes because of it, but that he seemed towny enough. looking back at the ISO now though, im less sold on that. agreed that the sequence malcolm pointed out was bad

Yeah this is something I was planning to follow up with you on once I finally got caught up

[Datisi]

not to play the devil's advocate or anything, but i don't think "this person is the most suspected, also they need more" is like, an actual contradiction or a problem

i do have issues with other parts of his play but you know

[Frogsterking]

not to play the devil's advocate or anything, but i don't think "this person is the most suspected, also they need more" is like, an actual contradiction or a problem

i do have issues with other parts of his play but you know

Are you talking about Yeet?

[tenebrousluminary]

STD - Has brought new ideas to the table and is putting in some effort to be visible and play the game. More of a townlean than full town, but still.

I would characterize this as exaggerated at best.

@tenebros, re your previous post to me

I'm not "crushing off" your post, I just didn't think it provided particularly strong reasoning for your play so far from a town POV.

In pretty much every post here you're basically either incredibly defensive, something you thought may have been a mafia tell for Datisi, you joke about being suspected, or you don't actually acknowledge any reasoning against you and try to twist it against the person accusing you to take the heat off without having to make any substantive points.

Like there's basically nothing in here which gives anyone a better idea as to your alignment either way despite there being plenty of posts, it's mostly deflection designed at directing suspicion onto someone else after you got some heat for a fairly weak first vote.

You are brushing it off, because I asked you to back up specific assertions and you have refused to do so.

You have called my defenses weak, and I want to hear what is weak about them. Tear me apart. Don't stand at a distance and repeat "nothing in here gives anyone a better idea." Explain how these posts are deflection rather than the addressing of accusations you and fua so greatly crave.

I continue to be baffled by your and fua's claims that I am at once too defensive and failing to address accusations. I want you to cite the accusations I have not addressed.

You now claim I am simultaneously not acknowledging reasoning against me -- again, what reasoning am I not addressing, and why am I obligated to address it -- while also twisting it against fua. How could I possibly twist an accusation against fua without acknowledging it? That is literally not possible.

Also, VOTE: fua

[Frogsterking]

I townlean you now by the way Luminary

[VP Baltar]

Also, VOTE: fua

Vote Wu or HEM

[Frogsterking]

Also, VOTE: fua

Vote Wu or HEM

Nah I prefer fua + Yeet

[VP Baltar]

Also, VOTE: fua

Vote Wu or HEM

Nah I prefer fua + Yeet

Not on the table. Let's get these wagons up. Make your pick

[GeneralWu]

I kinda have this feeling that there might be scum defending me for free towncred.

[fireisredsir]

who is even defending you

[Datisi]

Ah i thought i answered that earlier and that you would see it when you continued reading

I liked that a lot of his reads matched what i was thinking at the time, in particular that we shared a lot of townreads

i don't see where you responded to that earlier but maybe i'm blind idk

anyway, now that you have replied

i was thinking that the readslit is kinda odd because it was made when he read through only 10 pages, when the game was at page 21. which just like. why would you post a readslist when you're not actually caught up on half the game and it might be outdated or irrelevant by the time you actually catch up proper. and coupled with the fact that most of the reads were extremely... simple, i guess? which like, in of itself isn't a problem for a page 10 readslist, but that coupled with the fact that the game was on page 21, and the fact that he never gave an updated version, made me think that he did it because he thought it's expected of him rather than because he felt it in his soul that he should make a list

i think that i mentioned this to eyes, kinda? that they shouldn't townread him For The Readslist

okay, after writing this stuff out, i remember he did say he was reading along and was tired (910), which maybe kinda could be explained if he didn't feel like reading the rest of the game, so maybe this isn't as strong as i thought, but like yeah anyway.

[Datisi]

not to play the devil's advocate or anything, but i don't think "this person is the most suspected, also they need more" is like, an actual contradiction or a problem

i do have issues with other parts of his play but you know

Are you talking about Yeet?

ye, that is kind of a response to 1139 and 1149

[MalcolmTucker]

STD - Has brought new ideas to the table and is putting in some effort to be visible and play the game. More of a townlean than full town, but still.

I would characterize this as exaggerated at best.

@tenebros, re your previous post to me

I'm not "crushing off" your post, I just didn't think it provided particularly strong reasoning for your play so far from a town POV.

In pretty much every post here you're basically either incredibly defensive, something you thought may have been a mafia tell for Datisi, you joke about being suspected, or you don't actually acknowledge any reasoning against you and try to twist it against the person accusing you to take the heat off without having to make any substantive points.

Like there's basically nothing in here which gives anyone a better idea as to your alignment either way despite there being plenty of posts, it's mostly deflection designed at directing suspicion onto someone else after you got some heat for a fairly weak first vote.

You are brushing it off, because I asked you to back up specific assertions and you have refused to do so.

You have called my defenses weak, and I want to hear what is weak about them. Tear me apart. Don't stand at a distance and repeat "nothing in here gives anyone a better idea." Explain how these posts are deflection rather than the addressing of accusations you and fua so greatly crave.

I continue to be baffled by your and fua's claims that I am at once too defensive and failing to address accusations. I want you to cite the accusations I have not addressed.

You now claim I am simultaneously not acknowledging reasoning against me -- again, what reasoning am I not addressing, and why am I obligated to address it -- while also twisting it against fua. How could I possibly twist an accusation against fua without acknowledging it? That is literally not possible.

Also, VOTE: fua

They are deflection because you literally continually avoided actually addressing any of the points anyone was making about you early in the game and instead tried to divert heat onto people who were accusing you with flippant remarks. I've outlined how you did that in the literal post you've quoted, I don't get what's so difficult about that?

[Frogsterking]

I kinda have this feeling that there might be scum defending me for free towncred.

I think there's a good chance of either that or the higher player volume causing the wagons to feel like they have more resistance. I think your wagon looks like any other limbait wagon and has a low chance of flipping scum.

[MalcolmTucker]

I kinda have this feeling that there might be scum defending me for free towncred.

See I kinda like this post, if you're town the logic is reasonable and it's fairly calm and measured and not too jumpy and defensive given the suspicion you've come under. Will need to hear more from you though going forward, because if you're mafia could just be playing it coolly...after all a frantic and big long post where you mount a defence of yourself after being relatively quiet so far could potentially only make you look worse. But if you are town, this logic is probably solid.

[GeneralWu]

who is even defending you

You (somewhat).
I do have to think about this though.

[MalcolmTucker]

who is even defending you

I don't have any posts to hand but there's definitely been a couple of posts who have been less keen on a Wu vote at this stage. Nobody is exactly mounting a huge defence but then suspicion of him has been sporadic - if still fairly consistent - anyway for the most part.

[Frogsterking]

Malcolm if Yeet isn't your top townread by the end of D1 would you be willing to compromise on them to meet the deadline?

[Frogsterking]

who is even defending you

I don't have any posts to hand but there's definitely been a couple of posts who have been less keen on a Wu vote at this stage. Nobody is exactly mounting a huge defence but then suspicion of him has been sporadic - if still fairly consistent - anyway for the most part.

I agree with this I remember seeing the size of the Wu wagon fluctuate a lot and always return.

[MalcolmTucker]

Malcolm if Yeet isn't your top townread by the end of D1 would you be willing to compromise on them to meet the deadline?

Not yet no, I'm undecided on them, they've both simultaneously managed to appear very townie and kinda dodgy at certain points. The deadline is days off though, isn't it? No reason to push yet, this turn has been frantic and chaotic in a good way insofar as I think we're getting plenty of info that could prove useful later in the game.

[tenebrousluminary]

One more thing I meant to mention in my previous post: I am not sure about Wu being scum anymore. I thought his reaction to being accused of fillering, which was to make one game post and then continue to filler, showed a mildly town lack of concern about how he is perceived.

[MalcolmTucker]

Since I'm willing to give Wu a fair hearing and I'm going to be fairly quiet activity wise tomorrow, for now:

UNVOTE: GeneralWu

But far from convinced yet, would just rather my placeholder wasn't sitting there potentially into Saturday if I don't get the chance to say much beyond tomorrow morning at a push.

[GeneralWu]

Nero gives me some mixed feelings.
Sometimes I can't tell if he's being serious (such as when he said "let's flip a 2022 join date"). If he was being serious when he said that, then that raises some red flags.

The other part of him seems like aggressive town.

[MalcolmTucker]

One more thing I meant to mention in my previous post: I am not sure about Wu being scum anymore. I thought his reaction to being accused of fillering, which was to make one game post and then continue to filler, showed a mildly town lack of concern about how he is perceived.

Yeah as I suggested he could be playing it coolly at this point considering suspicion on him has been far from definitive, but he's not exactly seemed panicked mafia in his last couple of posts.

[tenebrousluminary]

They are deflection because you literally continually avoided actually addressing any of the points anyone was making about you early in the game and instead tried to divert heat onto people who were accusing you with flippant remarks. I've outlined how you did that in the literal post you've quoted, I don't get what's so difficult about that?

I am not aware of what I need to address that I have not addressed. If it is important to you that I address something or you wish to continue to say that I do not address accusations, back it up.

I am not going to agree that I deflected anything. From my perspective, I defended myself against fua and also attacked him because I felt his attack was disingenuous.