Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[humaneatingmonkey]

I said HEM became a bit more nullish for me than I originally tried to defend him for.

your words are nice but this isn't how you said it, and this isn't how it was worded. i don't think you even referred to me as nullish.

[Yeet]

this does seem to be an odd post to make. how will you agree with ari's side of the discussion without thinking i'm an offending scum?

As I said, I thought your request was really outlandish which made me TR it at the time due to some wifomy reasons. People shut those reasons down and made me doubt myself. I didn't think it was unreasonable at all for Aristeia to be upset and tell you to pick a smaller subset of reads.

[Yeet]

I said HEM became a bit more nullish for me than I originally tried to defend him for.

your words are nice but this isn't how you said it, and this isn't how it was worded. i don't think you even referred to me as nullish.

Just to put my money where my mouth is, I will VOTE: humaneatingmonkey, even though my last impression of him is light town (although I feel more nullish on him anyway).

What? Is this literally not what I said...?

[VP Baltar]

I also wanted to show others that I was willing to compromise to set a tone to push the game forward. I guess I could've voted Wu who is kind of just at pure null for me but I thought the game was moving a bit slowly and as I said HEM became a bit more nullish for me than I originally tried to defend him for.

Hmm.

But would you say you had more town vibes on HEM or Wu at that point in the game?

[humaneatingmonkey]

ah so i'm light town, but more bullish. this is the better vote than the one you had a null read on because you felt peer pressure. is this accurate?

[Yeet]

ah so i'm light town, but more bullish. this is the better vote than the one you had a null read on because you felt peer pressure. is this accurate?

Why are you reducing my words down to peer pressure?

But besides that part, yes.

[humaneatingmonkey]

so what was it if not peer pressure? geez sorry i was trying to be concizeee

[Yeet]

If you really care about being concise, you can boil it down to "wanting to push the game forward by voting the largest wagon that I didn't townread". Peer pressure doesn't make sense because no one told me to vote for you. You could argue "peer pressure" made me doubt my original gut TR ping on you, but that's more just averaging my opinions with others in what I view as a reasonable, Bayesian way.

[Yeet]

But I literally like wrote it in my posts. Sometimes I really feel like I am not being heard when I write stuff.

[Yeet]

Maybe it is my fault for being unclear. Sorry if that is the case.

[Yeet]

Because fua is currently my top scumspect. It’s pretty simple…

A "bland Iso" is causing your biggest scumread right now?

I think you're full of it... It's a horrible reason to begin with,looking at their Iso makes it even worse.

Got anything better? you just made me really hate this wagon.

A bland, postury ISO is probably better than most scumreads one can get, imo. Also just gut something doesn’t sit right with me.

And i don’t understand how my singular reason made you hate the wagon. There are plenty of other people on this wagon.

I'm going back to this post as being really sketchy now that we believe fua to be town.

[Datisi]

why are there only five pages for me to catch up on?? where are the nightly 20 pages that make me regret signing up to this site??? whatever

semi-mechanical

non-mechanical*

I really don't feel like defending skitter here because fuck if I am confident on her alignment, but I find the way nero has played this all day and dropping the neighborhood thing while skitter is VLA all weekend, and then pushing the wagon AGAIN away from Wu is hella sketchy.

Flipping Wu here seems like a much more logical play.

hmm

this makes me think, did skitter's wagon go up at like, any point other than last night? because it seems to me that nero had been arguing with her for a longer time, but the wagon only taking off now while she's vla feels like it should be indicative of *something*

vp baltar is my spirit animal

This comment is not w/w with VP

i find your assumption of my inability to do theatre insulting (not really)

So I think very much that Ari was being contrarian to Math because of the b a g g a g e. Personally, i think it would support the claim that it's non-ai. But it doesn't explain her belligerence towards me. It seems to me that it was a blanket strategy to anyone who she thinks she can push around. But saying that, i wonder what datisi thinks about ari's contrarianism now that it's been given full context.

i was very much present in the game where the math/ari shitfight took place, so i was aware of the context at the time. but it doesn't really change my view on her behaviour much? like, ari saw what happened last game, how math started tunnelling her and how much effort it took just to salvage the game in final 6 when math was dead set on voting out ari. so i think it's still fair to conclude that ari wouldn't purposefully be getting on his bad side as scum. the baggage point is... i dunno, if it's true that the whole thing was NAI and that ari was acting like that solely because of an outside grudge, then i kinda lose a bit of respect for her, but i'm really not sure it's the case.

I am not super sure what exactly makes me so town to you

this has made me realize that i do not remember why i was so town on cape

fucking lol at frogster saying the vig claim is "really townie"

bottom of pg 88, be back later

[Yeet]

Datisi, do you think it's possible scum!Aristeia acts like that towards town!Math to get people to believe she's acting the same way because she's town again? I don't remember the rules for theorizing about why she replaced (which I do have thoughts on) so I won't talk about that unless someone okays it. Also, as far as I remember Pooky is very good at faking emotions or channeling scum emotions in a townie way.

[humaneatingmonkey]

because it sorta feels like you're using peer pressure as an excuse.

i guess the other hard question is... why would you say that you were nullish to me when just posts ago, you describe me as:
- possibly town,
- +town
- never seen scum ask town to blanketly explain every single one of their 10+ reads off a casual readslist as their first entry into the game
- I just don't think scum HEM would decide to enter going guns blazing at Aristeia, of all people, who seems to be reacting to this in a very OMGUSy way
- I just don't see the scum motivation here.
- big stretch to say scum!HEM's scum agenda here is to get into a 1v1 with Aristeia to avoid doing real stuff in the thread and get townread for 1v1ing her. I think that's just a ridiculous agenda that doesn't make sense to me.
- I was one of the monkey defenders

those sound like really good townreads, Yeet. these are all great compliments. how did it turn into nullish? did i become scummier in between post 712 and post 1206?

[VP Baltar]

I also wanted to show others that I was willing to compromise to set a tone to push the game forward. I guess I could've voted Wu who is kind of just at pure null for me but I thought the game was moving a bit slowly and as I said HEM became a bit more nullish for me than I originally tried to defend him for.

Hmm.

But would you say you had more town vibes on HEM or Wu at that point in the game?

@yeet

[VP Baltar]

i find your assumption of my inability to do theatre insulting (not really)

It'd be fucking Broadway in here if we actually rolled scum together <333333

[Datisi]

Datisi, do you think it's possible scum!Aristeia acts like that towards town!Math to get people to believe she's acting the same way because she's town again? I don't remember the rules for theorizing about why she replaced (which I do have thoughts on) so I won't talk about that unless someone okays it. Also, as far as I remember Pooky is very good at faking emotions or channeling scum emotions in a townie way.

possibly? though i'm not sure how much of a +ev strategy that would be for scum!her, considering at the time that blowout happened, it was me, her, and math alive (out of people that are also playing this game), frogs had already replaced out i think, and i'm not sure how much skitt, nero, or vp were paying attention to the shitfest from the dead thread.

like, that's genuinely the only logic i can actually see behind scum!her acting the way she was acting this game, and i'll admit that it's not *impossible* for her to act that way, but like. idk, it doesn't seem likely to me still.

pooky is very good at faking emotions, yeah. i think he usually does it in a pocketing matter more so than... "scream at mathblade to get the attention on him" matter.

and i do think discussing repouts is against the rules.

[humaneatingmonkey]

when will the censorship end

[Datisi]

i find your assumption of my inability to do theatre insulting (not really)

It'd be fucking Broadway in here if we actually rolled scum together <333333

i'm gonna steal a joke from the worst

my postcount this game if i had rolled scum with baltar:

[Yeet]

because it sorta feels like you're using peer pressure as an excuse.

i guess the other hard question is... why would you say that you were nullish to me when just posts ago, you describe me as:
- possibly town,
- +town
- never seen scum ask town to blanketly explain every single one of their 10+ reads off a casual readslist as their first entry into the game
- I just don't think scum HEM would decide to enter going guns blazing at Aristeia, of all people, who seems to be reacting to this in a very OMGUSy way
- I just don't see the scum motivation here.
- big stretch to say scum!HEM's scum agenda here is to get into a 1v1 with Aristeia to avoid doing real stuff in the thread and get townread for 1v1ing her. I think that's just a ridiculous agenda that doesn't make sense to me.
- I was one of the monkey defenders

those sound like really good townreads, Yeet. these are all great compliments. how did it turn into nullish? did i become scummier in between post 712 and post 1206?

Okay, thanks for that - I am starting to see why you might have some anxiety about me. First of all, let's be clear on EXACTLY why people think I might be scummy here (so that we don't get distracted) - I stated some points for town!HEM early on, then many posts later when HEM was getting run up, in 1206 I become light town/nullish on him. And @VP I think I've made it clear I don't really have an opinion on Wu's posting and I said how I felt about HEM at the time.

We should be clear on the part about why I voted you at the time. So the only thing that we are addressing here is why my read on you went down a bit.

So let me try to recreate my process to be more transparent (again I don't remember exactly what I was thinking at the time, and there are a lot of slots to keep track of), and you can evaluate if you think it's a real thought process or if I am just making this all up.

A lot of those things I said are "viby and wifomy" arguments, and I felt no one found these convincing at the time/Aristeia and I felt were somewhat reasonably rebutting them (and I felt were engaging/listening to me, which also appeals), so I was sort of in the middle of doubting myself after that. Sometimes your reads just change because one moment you are feeling certain points matter a lot, and sometimes you go "eh, maybe it didn't really matter that much" (that is what happened here). And honestly, I am biased in this particular case, but I do feel general that this kind of dynamic, irrational and not always consistent thought process is more genuine than a forced, stoic process that always tries to be as continuous as possible. When my post 1206 rolled around, I was even more temporally removed from that interaction, so I had these vague feelings that I remembered you might be townie. I saw that you were the largest wagon and was more focused on trying to move the game forward at the time so I did that.

And I wasn't really evaluating any of your posts after that in particular, my read was based on leftover impressions of you at the time. I haven't carefully read every post in this game and I don't plan to.

Let me know if you have more questions.

[humaneatingmonkey]

so I had these vague feelings that

I remembered you might be townie

. I saw that you were the largest wagon and was more focused on trying to move the game forward at the time so I did that.

thank you for clarifying

[Yeet]

Datisi, do you think it's possible scum!Aristeia acts like that towards town!Math to get people to believe she's acting the same way because she's town again? I don't remember the rules for theorizing about why she replaced (which I do have thoughts on) so I won't talk about that unless someone okays it. Also, as far as I remember Pooky is very good at faking emotions or channeling scum emotions in a townie way.

possibly? though i'm not sure how much of a +ev strategy that would be for scum!her, considering at the time that blowout happened, it was me, her, and math alive (out of people that are also playing this game), frogs had already replaced out i think, and i'm not sure how much skitt, nero, or vp were paying attention to the shitfest from the dead thread.

like, that's genuinely the only logic i can actually see behind scum!her acting the way she was acting this game, and i'll admit that it's not *impossible* for her to act that way, but like. idk, it doesn't seem likely to me still.

pooky is very good at faking emotions, yeah. i think he usually does it in a pocketing matter more so than... "scream at mathblade to get the attention on him" matter.

and i do think discussing repouts is against the rules.

Thanks for the response. Noted on the replace out rules.

"he usually does it in a pocketing manner" is not convincing to me because that recent game apparently has a lot of overlap in the playerlist and I think T least one of the people would notice if Aristeia was acting wildly differently with Math? I consider the blowup NAI, I guess.

[humaneatingmonkey]

now i'm trying to evaluate whether it really is scummy to vote someone you think is town vs someone you think is null. I believe the choices were Wu, Nordom, and I. Interesting that he would join a wagon he does not support because he felt that it was necessary for game progress. i dont think i buy that at all.

[humaneatingmonkey]

does anyone?

[Yeet]

so I had these vague feelings that

I remembered you might be townie

. I saw that you were the largest wagon and was more focused on trying to move the game forward at the time so I did that.

thank you for clarifying

I'm not sure if you're quoting that in a sarcastic way that I contradicted myself or if it's genuine? But what I'm trying to say there (since I know you like concision) is I had an initial TR on you and it was eroded first by two people rebutting my points and second over time/my focus on something else.