[REVIEW] Open Setup Reviews

[Kerset]

I recently thought that Sacrifice our Leader would be fun as secret alt with Mask of Monsters tools.

Elect the Puppet Master

Secret Alt Game

1

Puppet Master

6

Townies

Day eliminations are called elections. Elections are compulsive.
If

Puppet Master

gets elected, it imminently wins. If

Townie

gets elected, it becomes

Minister

. If

Puppet

gets elected then following night is being skipped and this

Puppet

is removed from the game.
During night

Puppet Master

may select a

non-minister

Townie

and turn it in to

Puppet

. Original owner of that account may no longer post from it and account access is being given to

Puppet Master

.
During day

Puppet Master

may try to guess the real identity of

Townie

and has to roll d4. If it succeeds, selected

Townie

will be turned in to a

Puppet

. If it fails and dice rolls 1 then this

Townie

may no longer be targeted by this ability and it becomes

Minister

.

Town wins once they posses 3

Ministers

.

Townies

, who got turned in to

Puppets

don't lose their win condition.

[Jingle]

Balance relies a bit to much on how good people are at obfuscating alts, but it looks decent to me assuming at least some level of success.

[RH9]

A secret alt game seems fun. If it is run after my Limited Access ends, I might want to try it. Wait, by real identity, do you mean the actual player who is playing? Like the Puppet Master knows who all the Townies (and Ministers) are.

[Kerset]

I already hosted this https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=87181

[RH9]

Oh. I just looked at it. Does everybody imitate other people, in secret alt games? I glimpsed through it and I thought that Not_Mafia played in it.

[Kerset]

Every secret alt games needs a rule, which prevents people from clamming their main account.
Here the idea was that, if scum guess your real identity then they steal your alt account. Dwlee impersonated N_M to conceal themselves from it.

[Jingle]

Secret alt games are not universally designed, but more often than not there's a drawback to getting correctly identified.

PEdit: Yeah, that. I've seen NKs that only work on identified players and factions outright winning if they can guess all the identities as well. And some just force replace anyone who main slips.

[RH9]

Oh, that's why he was acting like Not_Mafia. To be fair, I feel like if everybody imitated Not_Mafia, then the scum would realise that. (I think that realistically, they can just play the opposite of their usual playstyle. For example, a normally quiet and passive player can play aggressively and post a lot. Wait, has there been anybody who uses a different playstyle when they are in a secret alt game?)

[T3]

chromatic ascension

[Jingle]

Kind of meme-y mountainous setup I intend to run in the nearish future. Would appreciate feedback.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=115&t=88370

[TemporalLich]

An interesting setup to EV but probably still too boring for actual play:

Two Deputies

9 players

2

Mafia Goons

2

Town Deputies

5

Vanilla Townies

All roles work exactly like their Normal counterparts.
Deputy is a special name for Backup Cop.

[Cook]

think you break this by forcing one deputy to out themselves and eliminate them, thus just having a town cop in a slightly disadvantageous ratio.

[TemporalLich]

think you break this by forcing one deputy to out themselves and eliminate them, thus just having a town cop in a slightly disadvantageous ratio.

yeah that kinda breaks it into 7p Cop

oh well I'm not good at making EV setups

[Cook]

think you break this by forcing one deputy to out themselves and eliminate them, thus just having a town cop in a slightly disadvantageous ratio.

yeah that kinda breaks it into 7p Cop

oh well I'm not good at making EV setups

still an interesting thought, splitting a PR between two people

...it'll be worth something.

[TemporalLich]

still an interesting thought, splitting a PR between two people

...it'll be worth something.

I have a feeling the NRG might deem Two Deputies an Inadvertent Mountainous setup though...

I like the idea of dual backups for a negative feedback element though.

[Cook]

still an interesting thought, splitting a PR between two people

...it'll be worth something.

I have a feeling the NRG might deem Two Deputies an Inadvertent Mountainous setup though...

I like the idea of dual backups for a negative feedback element though.

Or consider the idea of three Backup Neighbors. Once one dies, the other two get a PT together.

[Something_Smart]

think you break this by forcing one deputy to out themselves and eliminate them, thus just having a town cop in a slightly disadvantageous ratio.

It's not quite as simple as that. How do you determine which deputy reveals themself?

(I'm also not even sure that 2 goons/4 VT/1 cop is even good for town. I honestly think 2 goons/5 VT/2 named townies is probably better EV.)

I think the setup is interesting. The deputies have an incentive to get NK'd, or honestly even to get executed (a D1 that provides a lot of info and happens to end on a deputy execution is honestly not that bad, especially if it leaves scum with little clue who the other deputy is), but the low end of the setup is not that low because you get two named townies even if that doesn't happen.

I have a feeling the NRG might deem Two Deputies an Inadvertent Mountainous setup though...

It's not an inadvertent mountainous. I don't think a Backup Cop would become a cop when another Backup Cop died in a normal game, but this is an open setup, you can set whatever rules you want.

[TemporalLich]

The intent in Two Deputies is to have actual "dual backups" where if one Deputy dies the other becomes a Cop. If backups could not backup backups, you'd effectively have a Two Named Townie setup which counts as Inadvertent Mountainous.

If the strategy in Two Deputies isn't always to have one of the deputies claim then eliminate the claimed deputy, it would be quite an interesting setup I feel.

[Jingle]

(I'm also not even sure that 2 goons/4 VT/1 cop is even good for town. I honestly think 2 goons/5 VT/2 named townies is probably better EV.)

Technically it’s neither of those. It’s slightly more power than either case. In one you have an 8 person with a Nightstart (slightly more likely to get an investigate) and in the other it’s got the odds of a cop becoming apparent.

Regardless to get EV you’d run the calculations on both models and pick the higher one, but I’m not convinced it’s a setup where EV is the right approach to balance.

[TemporalLich]

(I'm also not even sure that 2 goons/4 VT/1 cop is even good for town. I honestly think 2 goons/5 VT/2 named townies is probably better EV.)

Technically it’s neither of those. It’s slightly more power than either case. In one you have an 8 person with a Nightstart (slightly more likely to get an investigate) and in the other it’s got the odds of a cop becoming apparent.

Regardless to get EV you’d run the calculations on both models and pick the higher one, but I’m not convinced it’s a setup where EV is the right approach to balance.

good point

EV would definitely miss something actually, it might require playtesting maybe

[Jingle]

More that the nuance on making a system for the latter involves a lot of branching paths which both complicates EV determination and makes it less reliable because of swing.

I’d look for double named townie runs and slightly course correct for additional townsidedness. Gut says playable but leans slightly town overall. Two clears on D2 of a micro is not insignificant.

[Something_Smart]

In one you have an 8 person with a Nightstart (slightly more likely to get an investigate)

Good point, I forgot about that, it does actually make a significant difference. But, there's also the chance that the cop dies N1. And I don't think there's a claim strategy that doesn't risk giving some information away to scum.

Actually, I think there might be one if you can determine a period of time, even if it's brief, where everyone is online simultaneously. But it's probably not realistic to assume that kind of thing would be coordinated in a game.

[Jingle]

You could go with a “next post is a deputy claim style thing”, which could itself come from a deputy, but that seems tedious at best.

Honestly, regardless of EV I think it would just be more fun to play it as a 2 named town with an emergent cop setup and rely on day play.

[ProfessorDrapion]

This setup is a different take on Mafia:

One Choice

12 players

3

Innocent Child

3

Vanilla Townies

6

Mafia Goons

Game Specific Information

:
This is a 12 Player Game with 6 Town and 6 Mafia.
All Mafia will have 24/7 wolf chat.
There will be 3 different main threads.
Half of the town will be IC’s in their own thread.
2 different mafia and 1 different town will be assigned to an IC’s thread.
The IC has 2 weeks to decide who they think the town is among the 3.
You can only talk in your own main thread you belong to and cannot talk in the other 2.
At the end of the 2 weeks it is revealed how many IC’s were right.
If all were right the game ends in a Town Victory.
If all were wrong the game ends in a Mafia Victory.

If not all were wrong or right, the mafia chooses 1 IC, 1 town member that isn’t an IC and 2 Mafia members to advance to the final round.
In the final round if the IC is right, Town wins the game.
In the final round if the IC is wrong, Town loses the game.

[Irrelephant11]

EV is 35% chance of town win (28/81 random scenarios). Perhaps a touch scumsided but seems interesting.