Newbie 2090 (Game Over)

[TTTT]

note about claims:

you should never claim unless someone gives intent to hammer
you shouldn't make obvious softclaims either (example: "you guys will REALLY miss me when I'm gone")
if you are vanilla town you should NOT fakeclaim or fake softclaim a power role (PR) in a Newbie game - you might think you are being clever but it almost always backfires and gets the real PR outed
play your claims straight and play them only at the last possible moment

[TTTT]

note about the note about claims:

we are nowhere near ready for marcia to claim a role
at the very least marcia should be allowed to provide all her thoughts on this game
then let people unvote if they choose

[TTTT]

Luke - you said this about PPP

I also feel like he does not look like he has a scum buddy. Like in the, he does not look like he has someone talking to him behind the scenes kind of way.

I had the same thought about Terp
except more like "scum!Terp's partner is absent from the game"

[marcistar]

marcistar - Not liking 169. The read on furtive was questionable. Felt like she was fishing for reasons to find them scummy. I didn’t see any of the things she was talking about. 204 seems suspicious as well but I would expect that more from newbie scum. So not sure quite what to think.

What about its questionable? "fishing for reasons to find them scummy" what do you thinks gonna happen so early on when not much has been established? What about the things I was talking about can't you see? I could try to explain better but you didn't really talk too much about what feels bad here so idk whats confusing for you.
how is 204 suspicious at all? my bad i wont ask people for their reads.

PlmPestPlaY

has the least amount of posts. He OMGUS' Somnus, makes a couple of statements I didn't really get in 201. I hope we can convince him to post a bit more and be more confident, else he'll remain completely unreadable. His lack of posting is

probably

due to this being his first forum game - I've been in the exact same place not even that long ago; however there's always the possibility of him being an overwhelmed mafia. He's in the null range for me, but I'd love to see a bit more thoughts even if they're basic and bare-boned.

The only thing I've found weird about 201, is the knot thing, but thats just because im dumb.

I'm a bit wary of you,

marcistar

. I

don't get whether the latter part of 208 is a joke or not,

but being vague makes it much harder to read you and not voting does too. Being able to double down on a take because you formulated it vague on purpose rarely helps the town and it's hard to know where you're at regarding your reads. I also agree with BigTerp's take on you with regards to the vague questions. Asking questions is completely valid and fine - I've done so a lot as well - but I'm

missing the part where you draw conclusions from the answers that you've gotten and share them with the thread.

However I did like your post in 169. You seemed to be putting effort into the game and the case on furtiveglance is the most well thought-out case this game. I just

don't get why you wouldn't vote him after saying you find him scummy and casing him?

I get that you want to make sure that you like the vote (208), but you seemed to have built a rather convincing case on him. At the moment, you seem the scummiest to me. Maybe you could

explain to me why you asked the questions and what you got out of the answers (198, 158 etc.)?

How do you plan on solving this game, what's your approach? It would be appreciated.

It's only partly a joke, I don't enjoy being vague but I don't really have time to do much compared to what other people do. I also kind of generally don't like being agressive, I like waiting until I feel like I

want

to vote, and not caring about whether it'll take off or not.

If the answer to any of my questions were meant to help me solve or anything, if I drop the topic it's probably just the response was "fine enough".

I find him scummy, but not enough to vote. I posted the case to see reactions, and to see if furtiveglance has any way to defend themself first.

198 was a read I had, but didn't want to word in a case like I did with furitiveglance yet, and wanted to see what bigterp thought first. I think now people have seen what I've seen though. I've heard somebody say once that scum has a harder time having thoughts similar to townies, so I've been wanting to test that lately and see if anybody else can see what I see. Simple as that.

My plans just to ask questions and watch for as long as until I get a strong feeling like I want something, and then vote that and park there. It's so much easier when I just poke at things until I get into it. >.<

Let me know if any of these colors are hard for any of you to read.

You'd rather be vague and wrong than aggressive and wrong? I mean, I guess that makes sense if you don't want to look scummy with a bad read. But that could very easily come off as mafia trying to hide behind vague posts and reads and then be able to come back with an excuse of they weren't confident or sure on their reads/votes.

What if I am unsure of my reads
Nah honestly, if I convince myself it's someone, but it isn't, I'll lose motivation thats what usually happpens but idk how to stop that.

No need to wait until your 100% convinced of that to put your vote down.

No I need to wait because I'll probably end up forgetting about ever making the vote in question.

This is the first they've discussed Marcistar, unless I missed something, have them as "slightly scummy" (along with me) yet doesn't have votes on either of us. Seems like a good way to be able to come back to either of us (myself and Marcistar) later and claim they've been reading them scum when they flip scum. I know I'm town, so that only leaves one conclusion. I'm pegging Alianna and Marcistar as the scum team.

Why are you jumping to preflip associatives? Did it never cross your mind that Alianna could possibly have a reason to be scum reading me "so suddenly"?

I like the pressure on Marci. Would like to get them more involved in the game.

A wagon on me of this size

isn't

the way to "get me more involved" believe it or not. If anything it'll make me focus more on defending myself/responding to seeing my name, if we're lucky in terms of me having time I would throw out a few reads, but nothing really says they would be good in anyway.

Some of marcistar's posts look like they came from a bot. But I'm not sure I want to put marcistar on E1.

Seen people talking about this, it isn't a weird comment. I'm unnatural right now.

What are your reads on the entire playerlist, for when you do get back?

I've seen this, I'm acknowledging it, I'm ignoring it now.
Ask me about specific people if you care, but I don't think its useful to make a whole readslist thats just 90% "hehe idk they could be either alignment!!"

[Frozen Angel]

Vote Count 1-8

marcistar (4)[E1]:

Mr Turtle, BigTerp, Alianna, TTTT

PlmPestPlaY (1):

Somnus

Somnus (1):

Lukewarm

Not Voting (3):

marcistar, furtiveglance, PlmPestPlaY

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline: March 15, 5 am GMT.

Countdown: (expired on 2022-03-15 05:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[Alianna]

Will respond more fully tomorrow but if you’re implying that 198 contributed to my voting you, it didn’t.

[Somnus]

Current Reads List. Note that this isn't a straight 1-8 ranking, but rather sorted into three groups.

Town-lean

Alianna: I mentioned this before, but while people have different styles of play regardless of experience or alignment, some of the playful posts (particularly in the first few pages) seem extremely unlikely to come from newbie scum. In my only other game on the site, I was mafia and while I was universally town-read for being the analytical note-taker, I was also fairly stiff and careful on Days 1 and 2. That's not to say that all newbie scum would fit into that box, but I'm finding Alianna to be legit, relaxed, and townie. There's pretty much no world where I could validate voting for her today.

Mr Turtle: Pretty much straight and to the point trying to solve the game. Doesn't seem opportunistic, as he voted for Marci before Marci had any momentum on her at all. Laid out his scum-reads nicely in 228. The only trend I'm not a huge fan of in some of his posts is excusing a lot of questionable posts as, "well, they're probably just new to the game."

Null-lean

Lukewarm: He was pretty inactive until Monday evening and most of his posts for the first day or two revolved around Marci, even well before Marci had entered the game. Most of his focus in this game has been on the players he is familiar with (Marcistar, furtiveglance, and TTTT). I'm concerned that he may have a blind-spot when it comes to furtive and just doesn't know how to read him. Agree with his read on Turtle. Same thoughts as myself about 291, but a few other players have already touched upon it.

I'm going to lump in a bit of a defence to his accusations of me here. In 284, acknowledges that furtive was correct that the game had a jokey/relaxed feeling early on, yet luke is the 2nd person to scum-read me for it and give everyone else a pass. When the game started at midnight and it was just myself, furtive, TTTT, and Alianna here, yes, we joked around a bit and had fun. I'm never going to apologize for that, nor am I going to apologize for answering questions posed by furtive and TTTT about my playing experience on here (all of 1 game). Playing in my first game as town on here, I've been as transparent as possible and am more than happy to answer any questions about me, including my game-history. But when another player enters the game and immediately scum-reads me for answering questions about my experience and having fun before the game had really started, while town-reading or null-reading the players asking the questions, as well as attributing NAI things furtive said to me, you better believe I'm going to defend myself.

furtiveglance: Not game-related, but I genuinely do enjoy having furtive in the game and having read through Newbie 2088 as it was ongoing, I was pretty bummed out when he said he wouldn't be playing again. I'm glad he didn't quit the site. Anyway...

Some good things and some bad things in his ISO from my POV. I like the jokey attitude. Mostly NAI. Admittedly, part of my town-read of Alianna is for a similar approach, but as I said, I think that approach would be very unlikely to come from someone playing their first game as scum. Furtive wasn't scum in his first game, so I can't apply the exact same reasoning here. Not a fan of voting for BigTerp in post 97 as soon as he replaced in, but I guess I can treat it as an RVS vote? I'm hardly the first person to comment on 110, but I REALLY didn't like this post, even though I understand the history behind it. I don't like the defeatist follow-up in 117. It pings me as "Oh well, Day 1 doesn't really matter." I don't know how he hard town-read Mr Turtle after 3 posts in 131, 1 of which was an RVS vote for TTTT. How was PimpestPlay "blendy" with their 3 posts as well, 0 of which had anything at the time other than an intro? (Note: not advancing the game in someone's first 3 posts is NOT a scum-tell). I'm kind of amazed how many people read BigTerp's faulty logic early on as "clueless townie" (No offense, Terp) instead of pushing on it. This can be seen in 184 from furtive. I like him asking for people to post their readslists in 232. Kind of agree with 303 regarding TTTT.

Marcistar: I'm not too sure what to make of Marcistar. This is one of those situations where I'm probably going to have to do a little bit of meta-scanning tomorrow to get a feel for what they're usually like in games as either alignment. As far as I can tell, luke is the only one who has experience playing with her. Again, joke posts don't = scum. Agree with some of 169. I don't see anything weird about Pimpest mentioning he has played elsewhere, especially in his first two posts. Agree that talking about playing experience at the start of a game is a natural ice-breaker to get the game moving. Not sure how furtive asking about the title under username's is in any way a slip?

TTTT: He's pushed the game along, which I like, and not to sound like a broken record, but I like that he was digging early on in regards to my history on the site. He and I reached drastically different conclusions about Alianna in the first few pages, although he has since eventually unvoted her and agreed with me. I'm going to have a hard time explaining this, but I feel like this is similar to his recent scum-game with MAYBE a slight difference in play? Just a gut feel. Agree with him pushing furtive in 112, 115, 116, and 119 in regards to defending any wagon. Asks furtive if he has anything to say about TTTT's one newbie town-loss and even provides the link to the game, but then later on in 245 doesn't like that furtive wanted to see the game? I saw this act (maybe not an act) before in newbie 2088 about pushing a wagon and then making sure that no one hammers. Could come across as a bit LAMIST but I also get that it's a newbie game. I think 327 is at least a possibility about an absent scum-partner.

Scum-lean

BigTerp: I'm going to try not to repeat myself very much here. I'm still a little amazed by how many people just chalked up BigTerp misreading the entire game up to his entrance as "newbie town" and the fact that he scum-read me for answering people's questions about my playing history while town-reading the people who asked such questions...in the first 2 pages of the game, no less. I was then mistaken for furtive. I can't keep repeating this further, but I didn't have a problem with you voting for me in your opening post. If it had been an RVS post to enter the game with, there wouldn't be an issue. The reasoning behind your scum-read of me has been pretty much exclusively based on either A.) Things other people said that you "accidentally" attributed to me or B.) Answering questions people presented to me. That's either a series of disasterous blunders by town or trying to push a wagon immediately on dishonest pretenses. I still don't know which, as I said in post 191 (I feel like luke missed this post in his assessment of me, btw?). Moving on from all of that though, I appreciae the readslist in 233, even if several of my reads are drastically different from his. I was thinking the same thing about his reaction to TTTT's comments on Mr Turtle's 228 (in post 251). Mostly agree with the remainder of his posts from Monday. Very hard disagree with his take on his read-list on Alianna and in 277 though.

PimpestPlay: Not much to say. Barely any posts. I put a prod vote on him to get him involved when he had 3 "intro posts", so to speak. After the reaction to it, it's no longer a prod vote and I'm currently happy with it. Seemed to imply that I was the one who jokingly claimed rolecop (Notice there has been a weird pattern in this game of attributing things that furtive has said as things Somnus has said). The rest of 201 is pretty bad too. No reads, no attempts to make any solves or question anyone...just a straight-up vote because "everyone else is". As it stands, I don't want this player anywhere near eLo (again, no offense personally. This is strictly game-related). Post 255 at least comes across as an attempt to make a read of the game but the actual content in it is just...ick. Why the unvote of me in 256?

[PlmPestPlaY]

Will just say this, since we are at E1.

Assuming me and furtiveglance are town (which is atleast half true, you guys).
Assuming me and furtiveglance are reluctant to lynch day 1, as we both have expressed.
Assuming a day 1 scum elimination would be so catastrophic for mafia, that scum would never vote scum (seems reasonable).

Then a day 1 lynch is as likely to be scum as all remaining 5 town voting the same person. Which seems unlikely to me.

[Somnus]

Will just say this, since we are at E1.

Assuming me and furtiveglance are town (which is atleast half true, you guys).
Assuming me and furtiveglance are reluctant to lynch day 1, as we both have expressed.
Assuming a day 1 scum elimination would be so catastrophic for mafia, that scum would never vote scum (seems reasonable).

Then a day 1 lynch is as likely to be scum as all remaining 5 town voting the same person. Which seems unlikely to me.

Hey, Pimpest. Just some thoughts if you're still here:

1.) I don't think very many people are assuming both of you are town though, or at least not town-read.

2.) In my only other game on here, I was mafia and I was the most reluctant person to eliminate someone on Day 1. I ended up being the hammering vote with 24 hours before the deadline.

3.) I think they would if there were other options that were more likely to be eliminated. Straight-up bussing off your partner in Day 1 in this setup is fairly unlikely, but parking your vote on your partner if you felt confident that someone else would be the elimination seems reasonable.

[PlmPestPlaY]

2.) In my only other game on here, I was mafia and I was the most reluctant person to eliminate someone on Day 1. I ended up being the hammering vote with 24 hours before the deadline.

Fair enough, but you are breaking the first assumption.

[Somnus]

How so? Admittedly, it's late here and my brain isn't functioning at 100%.

[furtiveglance]

Marcistar, It's fine if you don't want to give full reads because you might be unsure. I'll ask you this instead then: 1) What do you think of Lukewarm this game? And 2) 3 of us (Me, PPP and You) haven't voted yet. If you could choose the day 1 elimination yourself (like a day vig) who would it be and why?

[TTTT]

∆good questions

[BigTerp]

Lukewarm - I appreciate the thorough responses and posts. I'm not going to go into detail with them (there were a LOT since I last checked in) but you seem pretty towny to me. You seemed to spend a lot of time last night really trying to get some genuine reads on people. Nothing really sticks out as good or bad either way. But it was nice to get some discussion from you.

[BigTerp]

Alianna, since I have you here
who you gonna vote for?

At the moment, I'm debating on that. Marci is my strongest scumread, but I have no idea if it's a good decision to put her at E-1.

Will respond more fully tomorrow but if you’re implying that 198 contributed to my voting you, it didn’t.

I'd be interested to hear what contributed to you putting Marci at E-1. Other than you saying they are you scummiest read and TTTT sort of encouraging it, you haven't laid out much reasoning for that vote at all. Has anything changed since this post https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13285373? It was 5 pages and 2 IRL days ago. You don't seem to be providing much analysis in the game, but rather popping in here or there with a few word response that lacks a lot of context and then making a, IMO, pretty big move by putting Marci at E-1. I'm not against an E-1 here, but you're vote getting it there sticks out to me.

[BigTerp]

Big Terp had an awkward entrance

but the dude hasn't played in almost a decade
he's like a Medieval blacksmith transported in time to the modern age

This killed me Good one!!

[BigTerp]

UNVOTE:

I am not comfortable with a E1 here.

Why not? Nervous of a quick hammer? That would be the biggest mafia tell, especially day 1. IMO and experience playing this game, putting pressure on people with votes is one of the best ways to garner information.

FWIW, you being the first one on Marci star then pulling your vote once at E-1 raises my eyebrows a bit.

[BigTerp]

Current Reads List. Note that this isn't a straight 1-8 ranking, but rather sorted into three groups.

Town-lean

Alianna: I mentioned this before, but while people have different styles of play regardless of experience or alignment, some of the playful posts (particularly in the first few pages) seem extremely unlikely to come from newbie scum. In my only other game on the site, I was mafia and while I was universally town-read for being the analytical note-taker, I was also fairly stiff and careful on Days 1 and 2. That's not to say that all newbie scum would fit into that box, but I'm finding Alianna to be legit, relaxed, and townie. There's pretty much no world where I could validate voting for her today.

Mr Turtle: Pretty much straight and to the point trying to solve the game. Doesn't seem opportunistic, as he voted for Marci before Marci had any momentum on her at all. Laid out his scum-reads nicely in 228. The only trend I'm not a huge fan of in some of his posts is excusing a lot of questionable posts as, "well, they're probably just new to the game."

Null-lean

Lukewarm: He was pretty inactive until Monday evening and most of his posts for the first day or two revolved around Marci, even well before Marci had entered the game. Most of his focus in this game has been on the players he is familiar with (Marcistar, furtiveglance, and TTTT). I'm concerned that he may have a blind-spot when it comes to furtive and just doesn't know how to read him. Agree with his read on Turtle. Same thoughts as myself about 291, but a few other players have already touched upon it.

I'm going to lump in a bit of a defence to his accusations of me here. In 284, acknowledges that furtive was correct that the game had a jokey/relaxed feeling early on, yet luke is the 2nd person to scum-read me for it and give everyone else a pass. When the game started at midnight and it was just myself, furtive, TTTT, and Alianna here, yes, we joked around a bit and had fun. I'm never going to apologize for that, nor am I going to apologize for answering questions posed by furtive and TTTT about my playing experience on here (all of 1 game). Playing in my first game as town on here, I've been as transparent as possible and am more than happy to answer any questions about me, including my game-history. But when another player enters the game and immediately scum-reads me for answering questions about my experience and having fun before the game had really started, while town-reading or null-reading the players asking the questions, as well as attributing NAI things furtive said to me, you better believe I'm going to defend myself.

furtiveglance: Not game-related, but I genuinely do enjoy having furtive in the game and having read through Newbie 2088 as it was ongoing, I was pretty bummed out when he said he wouldn't be playing again. I'm glad he didn't quit the site. Anyway...

Some good things and some bad things in his ISO from my POV. I like the jokey attitude. Mostly NAI. Admittedly, part of my town-read of Alianna is for a similar approach, but as I said, I think that approach would be very unlikely to come from someone playing their first game as scum. Furtive wasn't scum in his first game, so I can't apply the exact same reasoning here. Not a fan of voting for BigTerp in post 97 as soon as he replaced in, but I guess I can treat it as an RVS vote? I'm hardly the first person to comment on 110, but I REALLY didn't like this post, even though I understand the history behind it. I don't like the defeatist follow-up in 117. It pings me as "Oh well, Day 1 doesn't really matter." I don't know how he hard town-read Mr Turtle after 3 posts in 131, 1 of which was an RVS vote for TTTT. How was PimpestPlay "blendy" with their 3 posts as well, 0 of which had anything at the time other than an intro? (Note: not advancing the game in someone's first 3 posts is NOT a scum-tell). I'm kind of amazed how many people read BigTerp's faulty logic early on as "clueless townie" (No offense, Terp) instead of pushing on it. This can be seen in 184 from furtive. I like him asking for people to post their readslists in 232. Kind of agree with 303 regarding TTTT.

Marcistar: I'm not too sure what to make of Marcistar. This is one of those situations where I'm probably going to have to do a little bit of meta-scanning tomorrow to get a feel for what they're usually like in games as either alignment. As far as I can tell, luke is the only one who has experience playing with her. Again, joke posts don't = scum. Agree with some of 169. I don't see anything weird about Pimpest mentioning he has played elsewhere, especially in his first two posts. Agree that talking about playing experience at the start of a game is a natural ice-breaker to get the game moving. Not sure how furtive asking about the title under username's is in any way a slip?

TTTT: He's pushed the game along, which I like, and not to sound like a broken record, but I like that he was digging early on in regards to my history on the site. He and I reached drastically different conclusions about Alianna in the first few pages, although he has since eventually unvoted her and agreed with me. I'm going to have a hard time explaining this, but I feel like this is similar to his recent scum-game with MAYBE a slight difference in play? Just a gut feel. Agree with him pushing furtive in 112, 115, 116, and 119 in regards to defending any wagon. Asks furtive if he has anything to say about TTTT's one newbie town-loss and even provides the link to the game, but then later on in 245 doesn't like that furtive wanted to see the game? I saw this act (maybe not an act) before in newbie 2088 about pushing a wagon and then making sure that no one hammers. Could come across as a bit LAMIST but I also get that it's a newbie game. I think 327 is at least a possibility about an absent scum-partner.

Scum-lean

BigTerp: I'm going to try not to repeat myself very much here. I'm still a little amazed by how many people just chalked up BigTerp misreading the entire game up to his entrance as "newbie town" and the fact that he scum-read me for answering people's questions about my playing history while town-reading the people who asked such questions...in the first 2 pages of the game, no less. I was then mistaken for furtive. I can't keep repeating this further, but I didn't have a problem with you voting for me in your opening post. If it had been an RVS post to enter the game with, there wouldn't be an issue. The reasoning behind your scum-read of me has been pretty much exclusively based on either A.) Things other people said that you "accidentally" attributed to me or B.) Answering questions people presented to me. That's either a series of disasterous blunders by town or trying to push a wagon immediately on dishonest pretenses. I still don't know which, as I said in post 191 (I feel like luke missed this post in his assessment of me, btw?). Moving on from all of that though, I appreciae the readslist in 233, even if several of my reads are drastically different from his. I was thinking the same thing about his reaction to TTTT's comments on Mr Turtle's 228 (in post 251). Mostly agree with the remainder of his posts from Monday. Very hard disagree with his take on his read-list on Alianna and in 277 though.

PimpestPlay: Not much to say. Barely any posts. I put a prod vote on him to get him involved when he had 3 "intro posts", so to speak. After the reaction to it, it's no longer a prod vote and I'm currently happy with it. Seemed to imply that I was the one who jokingly claimed rolecop (Notice there has been a weird pattern in this game of attributing things that furtive has said as things Somnus has said). The rest of 201 is pretty bad too. No reads, no attempts to make any solves or question anyone...just a straight-up vote because "everyone else is". As it stands, I don't want this player anywhere near eLo (again, no offense personally. This is strictly game-related). Post 255 at least comes across as an attempt to make a read of the game but the actual content in it is just...ick. Why the unvote of me in 256?

I don't get why you're still caught up in the joking, confusion thing. I explained myself here https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13284821 and here https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13285624. If that causes you to read me as scummy, that's obviously fine. But you seem to be taking it WAY more than that for whatever reason. And I don't get it.

[BigTerp]

Will just say this, since we are at E1.

Assuming me and furtiveglance are town (which is atleast half true, you guys).
Assuming me and furtiveglance are reluctant to lynch day 1, as we both have expressed.
Assuming a day 1 scum elimination would be so catastrophic for mafia, that scum would never vote scum (seems reasonable).

Then a day 1 lynch is as likely to be scum as all remaining 5 town voting the same person. Which seems unlikely to me.

Hey, Pimpest. Just some thoughts if you're still here:

1.) I don't think very many people are assuming both of you are town though, or at least not town-read.

2.) In my only other game on here, I was mafia and I was the most reluctant person to eliminate someone on Day 1. I ended up being the hammering vote with 24 hours before the deadline.

3.) I think they would if there were other options that were more likely to be eliminated. Straight-up bussing off your partner in Day 1 in this setup is fairly unlikely, but parking your vote on your partner if you felt confident that someone else would be the elimination seems reasonable.

I agree with Somnus' take on #3. Mafia will most likely have their vote on their partner as some point in Day 1 for several reasons.
#1 - If gives them something to fall back on to show they had a vote on scum (most important reason, IMO).
#2 - There is little chance for a quick hammer day 1 making the aforementioned a safer thing to do.
#3 - There is lots of movement day 1, so it's easier to move the vote around if things get hairy with their scum partner.

With that said, my questioning of Lukewarm's unvote to get Marcia back to E-2 from E-1 seems even more suspicious.

[BigTerp]

marcistar - Not liking 169. The read on furtive was questionable. Felt like she was fishing for reasons to find them scummy. I didn’t see any of the things she was talking about. 204 seems suspicious as well but I would expect that more from newbie scum. So not sure quite what to think.

What about its questionable? "fishing for reasons to find them scummy" what do you thinks gonna happen so early on when not much has been established? What about the things I was talking about can't you see? I could try to explain better but you didn't really talk too much about what feels bad here so idk whats confusing for you.
how is 204 suspicious at all? my bad i wont ask people for their reads.

PlmPestPlaY

has the least amount of posts. He OMGUS' Somnus, makes a couple of statements I didn't really get in 201. I hope we can convince him to post a bit more and be more confident, else he'll remain completely unreadable. His lack of posting is

probably

due to this being his first forum game - I've been in the exact same place not even that long ago; however there's always the possibility of him being an overwhelmed mafia. He's in the null range for me, but I'd love to see a bit more thoughts even if they're basic and bare-boned.

The only thing I've found weird about 201, is the knot thing, but thats just because im dumb.

I'm a bit wary of you,

marcistar

. I

don't get whether the latter part of 208 is a joke or not,

but being vague makes it much harder to read you and not voting does too. Being able to double down on a take because you formulated it vague on purpose rarely helps the town and it's hard to know where you're at regarding your reads. I also agree with BigTerp's take on you with regards to the vague questions. Asking questions is completely valid and fine - I've done so a lot as well - but I'm

missing the part where you draw conclusions from the answers that you've gotten and share them with the thread.

However I did like your post in 169. You seemed to be putting effort into the game and the case on furtiveglance is the most well thought-out case this game. I just

don't get why you wouldn't vote him after saying you find him scummy and casing him?

I get that you want to make sure that you like the vote (208), but you seemed to have built a rather convincing case on him. At the moment, you seem the scummiest to me. Maybe you could

explain to me why you asked the questions and what you got out of the answers (198, 158 etc.)?

How do you plan on solving this game, what's your approach? It would be appreciated.

It's only partly a joke, I don't enjoy being vague but I don't really have time to do much compared to what other people do. I also kind of generally don't like being agressive, I like waiting until I feel like I

want

to vote, and not caring about whether it'll take off or not.

If the answer to any of my questions were meant to help me solve or anything, if I drop the topic it's probably just the response was "fine enough".

I find him scummy, but not enough to vote. I posted the case to see reactions, and to see if furtiveglance has any way to defend themself first.

198 was a read I had, but didn't want to word in a case like I did with furitiveglance yet, and wanted to see what bigterp thought first. I think now people have seen what I've seen though. I've heard somebody say once that scum has a harder time having thoughts similar to townies, so I've been wanting to test that lately and see if anybody else can see what I see. Simple as that.

My plans just to ask questions and watch for as long as until I get a strong feeling like I want something, and then vote that and park there. It's so much easier when I just poke at things until I get into it. >.<

Let me know if any of these colors are hard for any of you to read.

You'd rather be vague and wrong than aggressive and wrong? I mean, I guess that makes sense if you don't want to look scummy with a bad read. But that could very easily come off as mafia trying to hide behind vague posts and reads and then be able to come back with an excuse of they weren't confident or sure on their reads/votes.

What if I am unsure of my reads
Nah honestly, if I convince myself it's someone, but it isn't, I'll lose motivation thats what usually happpens but idk how to stop that.

No need to wait until your 100% convinced of that to put your vote down.

No I need to wait because I'll probably end up forgetting about ever making the vote in question.

This is the first they've discussed Marcistar, unless I missed something, have them as "slightly scummy" (along with me) yet doesn't have votes on either of us. Seems like a good way to be able to come back to either of us (myself and Marcistar) later and claim they've been reading them scum when they flip scum. I know I'm town, so that only leaves one conclusion. I'm pegging Alianna and Marcistar as the scum team.

Why are you jumping to preflip associatives? Did it never cross your mind that Alianna could possibly have a reason to be scum reading me "so suddenly"?

I like the pressure on Marci. Would like to get them more involved in the game.

A wagon on me of this size

isn't

the way to "get me more involved" believe it or not. If anything it'll make me focus more on defending myself/responding to seeing my name, if we're lucky in terms of me having time I would throw out a few reads, but nothing really says they would be good in anyway.

Some of marcistar's posts look like they came from a bot. But I'm not sure I want to put marcistar on E1.

Seen people talking about this, it isn't a weird comment. I'm unnatural right now.

What are your reads on the entire playerlist, for when you do get back?

I've seen this, I'm acknowledging it, I'm ignoring it now.
Ask me about specific people if you care, but I don't think its useful to make a whole readslist thats just 90% "hehe idk they could be either alignment!!"

This seems pretty squirmy to me. Maybe fair enough since we got you to E-1, but the point of that is, IMO, to see how one reacts. The majority of your response is defending yourself with excuses for not voting and for your play in general. Not at all how I'd expect a town player to respond. In my experience, when a town player is close to elimination they make it known that they are vanilla town and that a kill on them won't hurt the town (in a sense that they are not a special role). They also give their reads so if they are eliminated the town has some information from a known town player. Defending yourself in this situation is perfectly fine, but all of the stuff I mentioned that's missing is the biggest tell to me. Say you are a special town role, you still should be giving your reads in the event you are eliminated, as already mentioned. Mafia in the same situation would be very hesitant to give detailed reads, nervous their alignment might be soon known.

I'm more than comfortable with my vote on Marcistar and having them at E1 for reasons just mentioned.

[BigTerp]

Can the three with votes outstanding give reason(s) why they've yet to vote? That would be:

Marcistar
furtiveglance
PlmPestPlaY

[furtiveglance]

I am also excited about Marcistar potentially being mafia, so if I had to vote now that's where I would vote. Do not take this as intent to hammer though because I want to hear more from them before they go, in case they are town.

[Lukewarm]

UNVOTE:

I am not comfortable with a E1 here.

Why not? Nervous of a quick hammer? That would be the biggest mafia tell, especially day 1. IMO and experience playing this game, putting pressure on people with votes is one of the best ways to garner information.

FWIW, you being the first one on Marci star then pulling your vote once at E-1 raises my eyebrows a bit.

Because I was on an e-1 wagon of someone that I was not really scum reading - it was still my RVS vote tbh - and I was actively in the middle of doing a catch up, and wanted to let my vote move once I had done that.

Why do you (or TTTT who also asked about it) think that I should have left my vote in place in that situation?

[Lukewarm]

I am also excited about Marcistar potentially being mafia, so if I had to vote now that's where I would vote. Do not take this as intent to hammer though because I want to hear more from them before they go, in case they are town.

What happened to defending the first wagon that hit e-1?

[Lukewarm]

I realize that my vote on Somnus was kinda buried in my flurry of catch up posts, but I really think that people should give that in particular a closer look. TTTT mentioned wanting dueling wagons, well I propose that Somnus be the counter wagon