Newbie 2090 (Game Over)

[Lukewarm]

I hadn't ISO'd Somnus
but now I have and you have a point
I started TRing him after his back and forth with furtive
191
219
223
but yeah...

VOTE: marcistar

Marci is now at E-1.
That means the next vote for Marci is the hammer that ends the day.
Nobody should hammer until first giving "intent to hammer" and allowing Marci to claim a role and to let other players unvote if they aren't ready for the day to end.
An early hammer vote will be taken as a scumclaim.

I really wanted competing wagons
but since people don't wanna vote I'll settle for this

I in particular, don't like this coming from TTTT.

He looked at my case, said that I had a point, said that he has been in favor of dueling wagons, but instead of joining me - he is gonna "settle" for joining the biggest wagon happening.

-

@TTTT - Why are you not putting Somnus back on the table if you agree with me once you look at his ISO?

[furtiveglance]

I am also excited about Marcistar potentially being mafia, so if I had to vote now that's where I would vote. Do not take this as intent to hammer though because I want to hear more from them before they go, in case they are town.

What happened to defending the first wagon that hit e-1?

My townreads are on this one. My biggest scumread (PPP) is not.

[Lukewarm]

I am also excited about Marcistar potentially being mafia, so if I had to vote now that's where I would vote. Do not take this as intent to hammer though because I want to hear more from them before they go, in case they are town.

What happened to defending the first wagon that hit e-1?

My townreads are on this one. My biggest scumread (PPP) is not.

So do you scum read Marci, or are you just considering sheeping your town reads?

"Excited about Marcistar potentially being Mafia" is an interesting phrasing lol

[PlmPestPlaY]

In my experience, when a town player is close to elimination they make it known that they are vanilla town and that a kill on them won't hurt the town (in a sense that they are not a special role).

Can you elaborate? Because I honestly don't see the logic.

[PlmPestPlaY]

I am also excited about Marcistar potentially being mafia, so if I had to vote now that's where I would vote. Do not take this as intent to hammer though because I want to hear more from them before they go, in case they are town.

What happened to defending the first wagon that hit e-1?

My townreads are on this one. My biggest scumread (PPP) is not.

Doesn't this post contradict the one Lukewarm just replied to?

[BigTerp]

UNVOTE:

I am not comfortable with a E1 here.

Why not? Nervous of a quick hammer? That would be the biggest mafia tell, especially day 1.

IMO and experience playing this game, putting pressure on people with votes is one of the best ways to garner information.

FWIW, you being the first one on Marci star then pulling your vote once at E-1 raises my eyebrows a bit.

Because I was on an e-1 wagon of someone that I was not really scum reading - it was still my RVS vote tbh - and I was actively in the middle of doing a catch up, and wanted to let my vote move once I had done that.

Why do you (or TTTT who also asked about it) think that I should have left my vote in place in that situation?

Fair enough.

My reason for leaving Marci at E-1 is bolded above as well as the fact that they are my biggest scum read.

[furtiveglance]

I am also excited about Marcistar potentially being mafia, so if I had to vote now that's where I would vote. Do not take this as intent to hammer though because I want to hear more from them before they go, in case they are town.

What happened to defending the first wagon that hit e-1?

My townreads are on this one. My biggest scumread (PPP) is not.

So do you scum read Marci, or are you just considering sheeping your town reads?

"Excited about Marcistar potentially being Mafia" is an interesting phrasing lol

I do scumread Marci now because they don't want to give reads.

[furtiveglance]

I am also excited about Marcistar potentially being mafia, so if I had to vote now that's where I would vote. Do not take this as intent to hammer though because I want to hear more from them before they go, in case they are town.

What happened to defending the first wagon that hit e-1?

My townreads are on this one. My biggest scumread (PPP) is not.

Doesn't this post contradict the one Lukewarm just replied to?

Explain the contradiction for me

[furtiveglance]

I am also excited about Marcistar potentially being mafia, so if I had to vote now that's where I would vote. Do not take this as intent to hammer though because I want to hear more from them before they go, in case they are town.

What happened to defending the first wagon that hit e-1?

My townreads are on this one. My biggest scumread (PPP) is not.

Doesn't this post contradict the one Lukewarm just replied to?

Explain the contradiction for me

[furtiveglance]

How to delete accidentally doubled post?

[BigTerp]

I hadn't ISO'd Somnus
but now I have and you have a point
I started TRing him after his back and forth with furtive
191
219
223
but yeah...

VOTE: marcistar

Marci is now at E-1.
That means the next vote for Marci is the hammer that ends the day.
Nobody should hammer until first giving "intent to hammer" and allowing Marci to claim a role and to let other players unvote if they aren't ready for the day to end.
An early hammer vote will be taken as a scumclaim.

I really wanted competing wagons
but since people don't wanna vote I'll settle for this

I in particular, don't like this coming from TTTT.

He looked at my case, said that I had a point, said that he has been in favor of dueling wagons, but instead of joining me - he is gonna "settle" for joining the biggest wagon happening.

-

@TTTT - Why are you not putting Somnus back on the table if you agree with me once you look at his ISO?

Good point here. Although I feel like TTTT has a similar thought process as myself in that getting votes on someone that you think is scum is the best way to gather information from them, and to a lesser extent, others in the game. Marci had the biggest momentum and Somnus has pretty much zero. If I'm reading both as scum I'm putting my vote on the one with the current momentum to get them talking and hopefully revealing something that further indicates scum or helps their case as town.

[BigTerp]

How to delete accidentally doubled post?

I think you can quote it and then delete it? I would just leave it though, it's not confusing or anything

[furtiveglance]

How to delete accidentally doubled post?

I think you can quote it and then delete it? I would just leave it though, it's not confusing or anything

God forbid.

[PlmPestPlaY]

I am also excited about Marcistar potentially being mafia, so if I had to vote now that's where I would vote. Do not take this as intent to hammer though because I want to hear more from them before they go, in case they are town.

What happened to defending the first wagon that hit e-1?

My townreads are on this one. My biggest scumread (PPP) is not.

So do you scum read Marci, or are you just considering sheeping your town reads?

"Excited about Marcistar potentially being Mafia" is an interesting phrasing lol

I do scumread Marci now because they don't want to give reads.

Don't you scumlean Marcistar in #346, then townlean #351 and here scumlean again?

[BigTerp]

In my experience, when a town player is close to elimination they make it known that they are vanilla town and that a kill on them won't hurt the town (in a sense that they are not a special role).

Can you elaborate? Because I honestly don't see the logic.

In my experience, when a town player is close to elimination they make it known that they are vanilla town and that a kill on them won't hurt the town (in a sense that they are not a special role). They also give their reads so if they are eliminated the town has some information from a known town player. Defending yourself in this situation is perfectly fine, but all of the stuff I mentioned that's missing is the biggest tell to me. Say you are a special town role, you still should be giving your reads in the event you are eliminated, as already mentioned. Mafia in the same situation would be very hesitant to give detailed reads, nervous their alignment might be soon known.

I thought I explained it pretty well in that same post (above is the quote)? I'll try to expand on my thinking though below.

Regardless of how the chips fall, there are 2 mafia and 2 special town roles. We certainly would rather eliminate a vanilla town versus a town special, agreed? So as a town special I can understand the squirming and defense nature trying to stay alive. However, there should be some reads along with that so the rest of the players have something to go on should they be eliminated and revealed as town special. If they are just vanilla town, let it be known, give some reads and make a case for why SOMEONE ELSE should be voted. Don't just defend yourself. It looks very scummy to me.

[Lukewarm]

Good point here. Although I feel like TTTT has a similar thought process as myself in that getting votes on someone that you think is scum is the best way to gather information from them, and to a lesser extent, others in the game. Marci had the biggest momentum and Somnus has pretty much zero. If I'm reading both as scum I'm putting my vote on the one with the current momentum to get them talking and hopefully revealing something that further indicates scum or helps their case as town.

This is fine in general - but it piqued my interest mainly because he has repeatedly said he wanted dueling wagons.

Speaking of, ending the day with 2 main wagons, and getting everyone to choose between the two is better for information then just having one big wagon. So wanting dueling wagons is a good mindset too.

[BigTerp]

Good point here. Although I feel like TTTT has a similar thought process as myself in that getting votes on someone that you think is scum is the best way to gather information from them, and to a lesser extent, others in the game. Marci had the biggest momentum and Somnus has pretty much zero. If I'm reading both as scum I'm putting my vote on the one with the current momentum to get them talking and hopefully revealing something that further indicates scum or helps their case as town.

This is fine in general - but it piqued my interest mainly because he has repeatedly said he wanted dueling wagons.

Speaking of, ending the day with 2 main wagons, and getting everyone to choose between the two is better for information then just having one big wagon. So wanting dueling wagons is a good mindset too.

Good point here.

[furtiveglance]

I am also excited about Marcistar potentially being mafia, so if I had to vote now that's where I would vote. Do not take this as intent to hammer though because I want to hear more from them before they go, in case they are town.

What happened to defending the first wagon that hit e-1?

My townreads are on this one. My biggest scumread (PPP) is not.

As you can see here I'm saying my townreads are 'on the wagon' i.e. voting for Marci. I do not townread Marci in this post or anywhere else

[Lukewarm]

I fundamentally disagree that survivalism is scummy. I have never, in any game, as any alignment, rolled over and accepted my elimination.

As scum, I obviously don't want to be eliminated

As town, I am the only person that I know is 100% town [barring Masons], so eliminating me is 100% a town miselimination, but saving myself, and having someone else die changes it to a 2/8 chance of a scum elimination.

A 100% town elim is worse then a 75% chance on a town elimination. My win condition requires me to try and save myself regardless of my alignment, so imo, survivalism is NAI

[PlmPestPlaY]

I am also excited about Marcistar potentially being mafia, so if I had to vote now that's where I would vote. Do not take this as intent to hammer though because I want to hear more from them before they go, in case they are town.

What happened to defending the first wagon that hit e-1?

My townreads are on this one. My biggest scumread (PPP) is not.

As you can see here I'm saying my townreads are 'on the wagon' i.e. voting for Marci. I do not townread Marci in this post or anywhere else

Ok, nvm, that was dumb.

[furtiveglance]

I fundamentally disagree that survivalism is scummy. I have never, in any game, as any alignment, rolled over and accepted my elimination.

As scum, I obviously don't want to be eliminated

As town, I am the only person that I know is 100% town [barring Masons], so eliminating me is 100% a town miselimination, but saving myself, and having someone else die changes it to a 2/8 chance of a scum elimination.

A 100% town elim is worse then a 75% chance on a town elimination. My win condition requires me to try and save myself regardless of my alignment, so imo, survivalism is NAI

Marcistar hasn't suggested a counter vote though. They now seem almost afraid to say anything about the game

[BigTerp]

I fundamentally disagree that survivalism is scummy. I have never, in any game, as any alignment, rolled over and accepted my elimination.

As scum, I obviously don't want to be eliminated

As town, I am the only person that I know is 100% town [barring Masons], so eliminating me is 100% a town miselimination, but saving myself, and having someone else die changes it to a 2/8 chance of a scum elimination.

A 100% town elim is worse then a 75% chance on a town elimination. My win condition requires me to try and save myself regardless of my alignment, so imo, survivalism is NAI

I'm in no way advocating that a vanilla town player just "rolls over" and accepts elimination. What I'm saying is they should at least be making a case for who they think the votes should be on instead of just defending themselves. If they are making, to my eyes, valid arguments for others while defending themselves I'm thinking town special. If they are making valid arguments for others while not being as squirmy, I'm thinking vanilla town. If they are just defending themselves and making excuses (as is Marci's case) I'm thinking scum. If it gets to the point where there is thought of or spoken intent to hammer, the player should absolutely make it known they are vanilla town, or town special. Town special obviously gets NK'd, but it gives the chance of catching scum with moving votes. If the player claims vanilla town, we at least know we are not eliminating a town special. Again, I'm not saying any player just roles over. The interpretation of how they act, as described above, is what's important.

[PlmPestPlaY]

In my experience, when a town player is close to elimination they make it known that they are vanilla town and that a kill on them won't hurt the town (in a sense that they are not a special role).

Can you elaborate? Because I honestly don't see the logic.

In my experience, when a town player is close to elimination they make it known that they are vanilla town and that a kill on them won't hurt the town (in a sense that they are not a special role).

Regardless of how the chips fall, there are 2 mafia and 2 special town roles. We certainly would rather eliminate a vanilla town versus a town special, agreed?

Agreed, but I feel like you speak as if there has to be an elimination. I don't see the gain in the town knowing you are vanilla. Town doesn't want to lynch their own no matter what, no? I don't really understand all this bloodlust. I was planning to make a post calling out TTTT for wanting double wagons. I feel like that situation is good for mafia. But now 2 other players have come out in favor of the stratagy. So now I'm just gonna assume I don't know the meta.

[Lukewarm]

@PPP

This site has banned the use of the word "Lynch" because of the history of the term in real life. Please refrain from using it.

Common alternatives are eliminate, lim, elim, and yeet

[Lukewarm]

Agreed, but I feel like you speak as if there has to be an elimination.

Not eliminating is almost always a bad idea.

[The main exception being when the game hits an even number of players (doc/jailkeeper save for example) and the game reaches Miseliminate or Lose / MeLo - the you no elim to get back to an odd number of players]

If we fail to eliminate anyone, it is a pretty big failure on the part of the town.