Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[tenebrousluminary]

BUT then later we get 1956 where tenebro confidently declares that fua is scum, which is very much at odds with their previous low-confidence posting. This also only occurs after fua has started receiving pressure from others (e.g. fireisred, Ari).

The reason for this post is my own 1931.

[Nero Cain]

Why am I scummy?

[MalcolmTucker]

Furthermore, in the bottom of 266, they treat me like they know I am town.

Can you give me specifics of what you're seeing there?

I think we should consolidate on one of HEM/Tenebro to push pressure and advance game state rather than splitting

Isn't town's biggest power early in large games driving dueling wagons? That's how you get good info for future use. Why do you think we should focus on one and not the other here?

I scumread Tenebro hard based on 116 and the attempt to defuse suspicion by essentially saying it’s just a bandwagon

I don't remember doing this. What do you mean?

“I’m so popular, everyone is looking at me” is basically a degradation of the reason to actually suspect you and dismisses it as a trend rather than a veritable case.

I am not sure how you got that idea from what I wrote, but okay.

It would be difficult for me to think any case against me had merit when I know it to be wrong.

Yes, but I would think you would at least go and defend your position or acknowledge the votes on you. Your playstyle so far has been very dismissive and I find that that typically comes from scum.

Fua looks objectively terrible in this exchange, and isn't even scumreading Tenesbro's 116 for the correct reason (which is that reads like pocketing of Yeet.)

Also, VOTE: fua

Vote Wu or HEM

Perhaps I am able to ascertain why you'd think that. You may have a point.

VOTE: Dragons

Vote Wu or HEM.

Large games should consolidate D1 as fast as possible or we will end up at 100+ pages for D1 and that's just annoying later in the game.

I don't want to right now. If you want me to consider a popular vote target, wait for Nordom's replacement.

That's not Wu or HEM.

Large games are about compromise early on and moving things forward. We will get more info out of running up these Jabronis than we will out of you single voting dragons.

Be a team player!

I'd be interested to know where VP's thoughts stand on tenebros so far, and vice versa. Looking through their ISO there are a lot of soft interactions here without much of an indication as to what VP or tenebros necessarily think of each other as individual players. Like there isn't really a strong defence of tenebros while under pressure, but there's an attempt to paint Fua in a bad light after an exchange with tenebros, for example.

[Datisi]

Why am I scummy?

your yesterday's flip on aristeia is icky, the constant pushing on the hood is weird, and the preframing me wrt the hood for not following the setup specc is concerning

[VP Baltar]

Hood people what happened in your hood overnight?

Nero pushed me to talk about reads. I told him I'm not doing that in a hood with a potential scum, and that it was kinda antitown to push it repeatedly.

That was all.

I doubt the hood is gonna get used much until we descum it

Your reads are surely going to be seen when you post them here anyway? Like, I get playing your cards close to your chest sometimes, but mafia are going to find out what a lot of us think because that is a natural condition of playing the game, and you can basically repeat whatever was being said in your hood anyway.

There is no incentive for me to give scum information while they are making their NK. As you say, my reads will be posted in thread. Why are you defending Nero exactly?

[VP Baltar]

I don't think Cape pushing the hammer on Wu (whether intentional or unintentional) is particularly problematic given lots of players spent basically 10-20 pages desperate for the turn to come to an end. Wu was clearly seen as the strongest consistent candidate by that point for elimination despite uncertainties over their role.

That's not why he hammered though. He stated extensive reasons that were anything but "this is a consensus read for the day".

Also, why hammer without asking for a claim?

[MalcolmTucker]

I don't think Cape pushing the hammer on Wu (whether intentional or unintentional) is particularly problematic given lots of players spent basically 10-20 pages desperate for the turn to come to an end. Wu was clearly seen as the strongest consistent candidate by that point for elimination despite uncertainties over their role.

That's not why he hammered though. He stated extensive reasons that were anything but "this is a consensus read for the day".

Also, why hammer without asking for a claim?

I feel like Wu would have surely claimed long before the actual hammer was dropped. They'd been under suspicion for most of the game and remained prime target by that point.

[VP Baltar]

I'd be interested to know where VP's thoughts stand on tenebros so far, and vice versa. Looking through their ISO there are a lot of soft interactions here without much of an indication as to what VP or tenebros necessarily think of each other as individual players. Like there isn't really a strong defence of tenebros while under pressure, but there's an attempt to paint Fua in a bad light after an exchange with tenebros, for example.

I haven't found tenebros all that scummy, and fua did look like shit in that interaction, as well as for not killing/not claiming target this morning.

You seem very eager to shade me on flimsy reasons.

[MalcolmTucker]

Hood people what happened in your hood overnight?

Nero pushed me to talk about reads. I told him I'm not doing that in a hood with a potential scum, and that it was kinda antitown to push it repeatedly.

That was all.

I doubt the hood is gonna get used much until we descum it

Your reads are surely going to be seen when you post them here anyway? Like, I get playing your cards close to your chest sometimes, but mafia are going to find out what a lot of us think because that is a natural condition of playing the game, and you can basically repeat whatever was being said in your hood anyway.

There is no incentive for me to give scum information while they are making their NK.

As you say, my reads will be posted in thread. Why are you defending Nero exactly?

What info were you likely to give them that was going to influence their kill? Seems clear they were either going to go for one of the masons or vigilante (if Fua was telling the truth).

[VP Baltar]

I feel like Wu would have surely claimed long before the actual hammer was dropped. They'd been under suspicion for most of the game and remained prime target by that point.

General play is to demand a claim when someone is E-1. You think he should have just claimed on his own? At what point should he have done that?

[Nero Cain]

we were @ p70 and her #1 scumread was a lurker. That's just a little

All of Skitter, VP, and cape think there is scum in the hood. Dunno why you are singling out me as being scummy for pushing that there's scum in the hood when EVERYONE in the game thinks there is scum in the hood. Also, Skitter and VP are just scummy, bro.

[MalcolmTucker]

I'd be interested to know where VP's thoughts stand on tenebros so far, and vice versa. Looking through their ISO there are a lot of soft interactions here without much of an indication as to what VP or tenebros necessarily think of each other as individual players. Like there isn't really a strong defence of tenebros while under pressure, but there's an attempt to paint Fua in a bad light after an exchange with tenebros, for example.

I haven't found tenebros all that scummy, and fua did look like shit in that interaction, as well as for not killing/not claiming target this morning.

You seem very eager to shade me on flimsy reasons.

I don't think my main reason as stated earlier is particularly flimsy - you regularly claimed Nero was suspect for pushing Wu without voting for them despite the fact Nero/Wu weren't going to end up being teammates since Nero was the first person to shade Wu when there was no heat on them, an illogical strategy for two mafia to pursue. I found that incredibly strange and it felt a bit like you were potentially pursuing that line because it would have been odd to back off.

[MalcolmTucker]

I feel like Wu would have surely claimed long before the actual hammer was dropped. They'd been under suspicion for most of the game and remained prime target by that point.

General play is to demand a claim when someone is E-1. You think he should have just claimed on his own?

At what point should he have done that?

Probably around a point where it became apparent he was under constant suspicion and was likely to be eliminated. If you're at the point of hammer then, well yeah, that wouldn't be a bad time to reveal certainly. MathBlade and Fua did it for much less. We can debate the logic of their exact timing but I don't think anyone thought their respective claims were completely ridiculous or harmful to the town.

[Datisi]

you started pushing first that there was scum in the hood long before any of that got revealed, and wasn't your reason "bc 4p hood"?

i owe both of them a reread anyway so i won't be going to great lengths to argue about this atm, but that isn't the feel i got yesterday

[VP Baltar]

What info were you likely to give them that was going to influence their kill? Seems clear they were either going to go for one of the masons or vigilante (if Fua was telling the truth).

*claimed vigilante.

But why is that so obvious? Masons aren't necessarily an early game threat to scum (though they need to be dealt with).

As far as info, scum can make kills that play to people's biases and reads. There is no incentive for me to give them any information at that point. What are you even arguing exactly? You think I'm scummy because I wouldn't put my reads in the hood last night?

[Scorpious]

please direct me to your planet where there are no jobs and limitless time for mafia..

I'm not reading 50 pages, got a question? ask I'll find the context and answer..

you guys will turn me into your new wagon and we will have a fun time..

I get reading back through the whole thread is difficult but you've made 50 posts and it feels like a significant number of them have either been off-topic or moaning about there being too many posts, the latter of which doesn't particularly help. "I don't have any specific reads or thoughts because the game is too busy" looks like a convenient way to just avoid having any actual reads, you could've used the time you've spent complaining about this to skim through someone's ISO or whatever.

you are not wrong, I've been more than useless, not on purpose. I just cant find a spot to just start diving in, y'know. but again, you are not out of line with this at all.

[Datisi]

broke: skitter v fua is svs
woke: baltar v malcolm is svs

(no, i don't actively scumread either of them atm, but this convo feels kinda odd at least from skimming... like, discussing things in a more detailed manner than it would be natural to? idk lole)

[MalcolmTucker]

What info were you likely to give them that was going to influence their kill? Seems clear they were either going to go for one of the masons or vigilante (if Fua was telling the truth).

*claimed vigilante.

But why is that so obvious? Masons aren't necessarily an early game threat to scum (though they need to be dealt with).

As far as info, scum can make kills that play to people's biases and reads. There is no incentive for me to give them any information at that point.

What are you even arguing exactly? You think I'm scummy because I wouldn't put my reads in the hood last night?

I don't think this part is particularly scummy no, I'm just unsure Nero being keen to hear some reads is all that much scummier either. How do we even know there's mafia in the hood? I'd get the concern later in the game but turn one it was always likely to be one of the role revealed players. I'm open to persuasion re Nero in general, I don't believe this is particularly great evidence.

[MalcolmTucker]

broke: skitter v fua is svs
woke: baltar v malcolm is svs

(no, i don't actively scumread either of them atm, but this convo feels kinda odd at least from skimming... like, discussing things in a more detailed manner than it would be natural to? idk lole)

Eh I don't reckon I'd have any incentive to push mafia VP at the moment, they've come in for some heat but not enough for it to be beneficial for a prospective teammate to come in and put pressure on them.

[Eyes without a face]

I will try a little harder today I promise.

@fua: Why are you dismissing the possibility of a bulletproof vest there? Your target could have had a BP vest. No?

[fireisredsir]

not gonna talk too much about fua atm since the slot is not currently in the game, but if i were a vig and my kill didn't go through my first thought would be that someone in my poe got scared. is that a fair thing to think, yay or nay? would scum roleblock a vig kill that was likely going to hit town just to cause confusion and avoid confirming the vig?

anyway i thought it was kinda weird that fua didn't jump to that thought right away, or even consider it at all as far as i can tell. but then, their "oh there's a doctor or a roleblocker, wait no, doctor doesn't make sense" reads kinda pure immediate reaction thought process to me? like if they're scum they know already the kill isn't going through and have probably planned out what they're gonna say. the moment of confusion feels kinda towny to me, but maybe that's faked, idk

[VP Baltar]

I found that incredibly strange and it felt a bit like you were potentially pursuing that line because it would have been odd to back off.

Actually my point made total sense and what you're arguing is dumb. If you think I'm afraid to switch positions as scum, you don't know my game at all.

Nero banging for Wu's yeet for half the day and then suddenly not being interested for extremely vague meta reasons when the Wu wagon got real is Hella suspicious on its face.

[VP Baltar]

Datisi, what do you think of cape?

[tenebrousluminary]

nero, stop twisting my words, i said i didn't believe that there *has* to be scum in the hood because every mod with more than half a brain cell makes a setup that punishes mindless setup "specc"

This is where I remain as well. Feel free to label me as scum with a neighbor for sticking to it, if you insist.

Furthermore, in the bottom of 266, they treat me like they know I am town.

Can you give me specifics of what you're seeing there?

I think we should consolidate on one of HEM/Tenebro to push pressure and advance game state rather than splitting

Isn't town's biggest power early in large games driving dueling wagons? That's how you get good info for future use. Why do you think we should focus on one and not the other here?

I scumread Tenebro hard based on 116 and the attempt to defuse suspicion by essentially saying it’s just a bandwagon

I don't remember doing this. What do you mean?

“I’m so popular, everyone is looking at me” is basically a degradation of the reason to actually suspect you and dismisses it as a trend rather than a veritable case.

I am not sure how you got that idea from what I wrote, but okay.

It would be difficult for me to think any case against me had merit when I know it to be wrong.

Yes, but I would think you would at least go and defend your position or acknowledge the votes on you. Your playstyle so far has been very dismissive and I find that that typically comes from scum.

Fua looks objectively terrible in this exchange, and isn't even scumreading Tenesbro's 116 for the correct reason (which is that reads like pocketing of Yeet.)

Also, VOTE: fua

Vote Wu or HEM

Perhaps I am able to ascertain why you'd think that. You may have a point.

VOTE: Dragons

Vote Wu or HEM.

Large games should consolidate D1 as fast as possible or we will end up at 100+ pages for D1 and that's just annoying later in the game.

I don't want to right now. If you want me to consider a popular vote target, wait for Nordom's replacement.

That's not Wu or HEM.

Large games are about compromise early on and moving things forward. We will get more info out of running up these Jabronis than we will out of you single voting dragons.

Be a team player!

I'd be interested to know where VP's thoughts stand on tenebros so far, and vice versa. Looking through their ISO there are a lot of soft interactions here without much of an indication as to what VP or tenebros necessarily think of each other as individual players. Like there isn't really a strong defence of tenebros while under pressure, but there's an attempt to paint Fua in a bad light after an exchange with tenebros, for example.

I do not have a strong opinion about VP Baltar. The one thing I dislike from him is his attempt there to push me onto one of two wagons that we now know to both be incorrect. Also, Nero Cain, who I townread, keeps pushing him, but I think I need a condensed version of why as I do not understand it. I am however, open to ideas today because I do not feel like I see who is scum at all.

[Eyes without a face]

Also doctor can be either alignment so if the target was scum they could have been protected by a scum doctor, or if they're really scummy town they could have still been protected by scum doctor for wifom

So RB, doctor of either alignment or bp are all valid (and I didn't even consider a commuter because it's not that common on this site)