Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[MalcolmTucker]

I found that incredibly strange and it felt a bit like you were potentially pursuing that line because it would have been odd to back off.

Actually my point made total sense and what you're arguing is dumb. If you think I'm afraid to switch positions as scum, you don't know my game at all.

Nero banging for Wu's yeet for half the day and then suddenly not being interested for extremely vague meta reasons when the Wu wagon got real is Hella suspicious on its face.

Nero was the first person to throw any shade on Wu at all. Reading the game early on I found it strange how nobody commented on the fact Wu was regularly posting but giving no reads or opinions. Nero is the first to point this out, and it's the first, initial point in the game that Wu came under any pressure. From there it never really quite went away fully, leading to the eventual elimination. If the two of them had been teammates then this would have quite frankly been dreadful play and this should have been apparent in day one.

I'm perfectly open to the idea Nero saw an easy day one target and pushed that on solid evidence without fully sticking to it, and there's a case to be made this is what happened if you're town, but from your POV this argument would only work if you were convinced Wu was actually town. There was just no logical means by which they were on the mafia team together barring a massive error by Nero wherein he stuck his teammate into the shit when there were plenty of other quiet or inactive players to target.

[Nero Cain]

Nero banging for Wu's yeet for half the day and then suddenly not being interested for extremely vague meta reasons when the Wu wagon got real is Hella suspicious on its face.

Fire and Ari did the work and linked his games and I agreed with it.

Both you and Skitter are outright refusing that this ever happened. My read on Wu didn't stay the same b/c there was evidence presented that I was wrong and I thought "maybe" It makes very little sense to me that you 2 think I have to continue to push Wu.

[VP Baltar]

not gonna talk too much about fua atm since the slot is not currently in the game, but if i were a vig and my kill didn't go through my first thought would be that someone in my poe got scared. is that a fair thing to think, yay or nay? would scum roleblock a vig kill that was likely going to hit town just to cause confusion and avoid confirming the vig?

Got scared? I don't know what that means.

For your second question, how would scum know who fua was going to target?

[MalcolmTucker]

not gonna talk too much about fua atm since the slot is not currently in the game, but if i were a vig and my kill didn't go through my first thought would be that someone in my poe got scared. is that a fair thing to think, yay or nay? would scum roleblock a vig kill that was likely going to hit town just to cause confusion and avoid confirming the vig?

anyway i thought it was kinda weird that fua didn't jump to that thought right away, or even consider it at all as far as i can tell. but then, their "oh there's a doctor or a roleblocker, wait no, doctor doesn't make sense" reads kinda pure immediate reaction thought process to me? like if they're scum they know already the kill isn't going through and have probably planned out what they're gonna say. the moment of confusion feels kinda towny to me, but maybe that's faked, idk

I don't think their refusal to say who they targeted helped at all, but it does feel kinda weird in retrospect how keen some people were to immediately jump all over them being mafia when a blocked kill is feasible. Although as I say once they continually refused to say who they targeted the suspicion started to feel a lot more understandable.

[tenebrousluminary]

VOTE: Dragons

[VP Baltar]

Nero banging for Wu's yeet for half the day and then suddenly not being interested for extremely vague meta reasons when the Wu wagon got real is Hella suspicious on its face.

Fire and Ari did the work and linked his games and I agreed with it.

Both you and Skitter are outright refusing that this ever happened. My read on Wu didn't stay the same b/c there was evidence presented that I was wrong and I thought "maybe" It makes very little sense to me that you 2 think I have to continue to push Wu.

I found your points very mealy mouthed. Regardless, I'm not super interested in relitigating this with you, and you're not really my top suspect anyhow.

You could just be terrible town here.

[Eyes without a face]

fua not thinking like the rest doesn't make fae scum. In fact I find it almost impossible for scum to claim vig when they know they can't prove it, so the claim alone should give fae more space

[VP Baltar]

Nero was the first person to throw any shade on Wu at all.

So what?

That's the best time to theater with a potential buddy. Like, your idea of optimal scum play is not correct, and that seems to be the heart of our disagreement.

[Nero Cain]

without fully sticking to it, and there's a case to be made this is what happened

I don't know why I have to "stick" with a read. There was evidence presented that he might have been more in his town meta than his scum meta and that certainly influenced me.

[tenebrousluminary]

I do not think it makes sense to go after the fua slot today and I think it's possible some maf were hopeful they could get that through. I am becoming a little suspicious of skitter, even though I don't want to as she is really the only player who has taken a firm stance in support of me when I believe scum see me as a mislim they would like to achieve.

It is interesting to me that the scum kill shows no fear of a doctor whatsoever. At least, I would think HEM would be the most obvious save.

[tenebrousluminary]

Eyes and Scorpious have gotten plenty of flak for doing nothing. Why hasn't Dragons? I realize they made one or two slightly townie sounding posts, but the extent to which everyone has completely ignored them does not sit right with me.

[Nero Cain]

You could just be terrible town here.

I'd argue that thinking that a player is scum and then rethinking whether or not they are really scum isn't bad town play. I guess you could also argue that Wu was so terrible that it was "good" townplay to get rid of him and maybe?

[MalcolmTucker]

I do not think it makes sense to go after the fua slot today and I think it's possible some maf were hopeful they could get that through. I am becoming a little suspicious of skitter, even though I don't want to as she is really the only player who has taken a firm stance in support of me when I believe scum see me as a mislim they would like to achieve.

It is interesting to me that the scum kill shows no fear of a doctor whatsoever. At least, I would think HEM would be the most obvious save.

In retrospect is it not possible, if we have a town doctor, that they would have saved Fua if they told the truth in their claim? Vigilante would be more valuable than a mason from that POV due to their immediate powers to take someone out? Mafia may have felt more confident going for a confirmed mason from that POV.

[tenebrousluminary]

It's possible. If I were a town doctor though, I would have wanted to see whether a roleblocker existed before I started protecting fua.

[MalcolmTucker]

Eyes and Scorpious have gotten plenty of flak for doing nothing. Why hasn't Dragons? I realize they made one or two slightly townie sounding posts, but the extent to which everyone has completely ignored them does not sit right with me.

Post counts and complaints about the speed of the game has been what's made me find Scorpious a bit more suspicious. They've repeatedly shied away from giving reads and have regularly made posts claiming there's too much to catch up on, but instead of then trying to catch up they are then making big, lengthy posts about stuff that has nothing to do with the game at all. They've made almost 50 posts...that's quite a lot and not exactly inactivity to the same degree as STD.

I'm not against giving STD more attention further down the line, because they've certainly done nothing to clear their name, but would potentially feel like a bit of a wasted vote this turn where we don't necessarily learn anything.

On Eyes I'm kinda neutral. Their initial frustration seems genuine but again there's been nothing there to rule them out yet.

[tenebrousluminary]

I feel that at this point Scorp's continued line of posting is not survivalistic at all. It seems calculated to annoy others into voting him, if anything, so I think he may be town.

[Datisi]

Datisi, what do you think of cape?

was townie early then fell off

eod play was obviously not great but that's a very shallow answer

i will provide a fuller answer in the next 36-48 business hours, really need my vla this week >_>

[Yeet]

Cape your hammer is not NAI because there is obvious scum motivation to do it.

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: April

[Save The Dragons]

holy crap i thought i posted more in this game 22 posts wow i'm probably scum

[Yeet]

You’ve probably been mentally adding the posts you’ve made in the scum PT.

[MathBlade]

I think HEM is right.

The more this discussion goes on the less I am convinced SvS on Fua and Skitter

I think tene Scorpious and April should give reads and do things

VOTE: Scorpious

[Save The Dragons]

re: the hood - i have at least a light town read on everyone, is it possible it's pure? i'll reassess and see if i change my mind.

[Cape90]

VP you absolutely REEK of an agenda (stop sending things early lmao, idk what did that)

Lemme explain. I think you have been inconsistent with your treatment of the hood.

I also want to point out before the skitter quote that I am gonna show off that they were townreading skitter a lot. 2029, oh and 705 is quite the gem in hedginess. 696, 690 (talking to bottom yeet quote). 590.

I also do want to mention that VP repeatedly questions skitter on Nero 897 (which this is odd because literally VP is thinking that Nero is scum), 1108.

So they kinda go from just flat out shielding skitter to kinda just poking them and lightly shading them later on. Sussy baka if you ask me.

Now let's talk about Nero.

So VP's first interaction with Nero starts out with 310 which leads into the humorous 312 into 313. Nero is nowhere to be found in VP's early readslist in 523. Just noting it.

The "your better then this!" thing seems forced in at 684.
In 750 VP was talking about how Nero was having this read on GeneralWu's fluffposting calling that "whatever". Anyway, oddly enough in 1293 they vote Wu, cool, so as a sidestep, how does that progress? 1344, 1939 (woah calm down there buddy, I thought Wu was "whatever" ). 1940, 1952, you know, just a casual getting aggressive, also HEM was mega towny at this point, especially with MathBlade on board so as they say in like middle school or something, ratio. gottem. 1995 Gotta ask Ari twice I guess. 2004, 2009, and then they just 2222 they, they.. they... vote yeet??

Oh let's ignore

2214

though

. Well, there was 2381. But then like, a post later, they just... kinda swap back to GeneralWu (2388) who I still don't really get why VP pushed here. Also wouldn't Wu be the logical play? You said so yourself 2128.

Back to Nero, so Nero already got shaded in 684 right? But then with skitter they question Skitter on why they dislike Nero which again, is in 897. Oh and again in 1107. 1208 is a lovely addition to the Wu cannon arc. Blah Blah Blah a lot of shading on Nero for shading VP in omgus city and also VP was shading Nero on not going with the Wu wagon, when Nero was literally the one who first presented this idea to VP.

Let's talk about my favorite person in the whole world ME! /j
523 calls me town for... reasons.
Basically spends a lot of day 1 not even interacting with me.
Lemme just pull up a lovely quote.

I'm also in a 4p hood with VP, Cape, and Skitter. I doubt its all 4 town and im town and cape is prob town. It's why I've been pushing that at least 1 of them is scum but I don't think it's impossible that both VP and Skitter are scum.

I'd like to see a dead Skitter or Ari's rep the most. Maybe Fua is scum that was buddying me. Don't really care that much about Wu staying alive.

How did I see this coming!

Can confirm, we are in a neighborhood. Nero has been poking around revealing to the thread for awhile now, and he is either dumbass town or scum trying to get ahead of the ball here.

Not much has happened in the hood. There was one weird interaction before the game started where skitter did some shading of Cape that I didn't care for

, but Nero's play in game has been much scummier and I think he's very jittery for being town.

If I had to guess, the scum in the neighborhood is between Nero and skitter, but I'm not at all certain.

So obviously here VP was on the side that I was the town in the hood. Nero also shared this same sentiment and even approached me in the hood asking about if I thought there was scum in the hood, which is an idea I had since the start since 4 neighbors felt like a lot of a 19er. The whole skitter thing is a big nothingburger of a read and I big laugh.

Oh but my HUGE problem with how VP Baltar treated me goes as follows, it is mostly about today.

So as you may know, I hammered GeneralWu, felt as if they were turning sketch and didn't do a whole lot, right?
So then as you know, today VP Baltar voted me in 2595 keep in mind, Yeet literally voted me first and VP literally passively called me town all of day 1.
Well you see at night in the neighborhood my good friend VP made this lovely in passing comment about how I should be questioned about my hammer if he dies and that Yeet should be questioned too.
Okay so what is the problem with that.
The problem with that is...

I am literally in your hood, talk to me you actual coward

.

Yeah, I was never directly reached out about that. Maybe you should have literally asked me, especially if you think I am mafia for doing so,

I am right there I literally can respond to you

.
Okay so you were advocating about how we should not use the hood until we "descum" it right? (2608)
Well, I kinda had the same stance as you until I thought about it more, and I feel like it would have just been more beneficial to question me about it right?
VP let's say hypothetically, that you are town and I am mafia. You call me out for the hammer I made on GeneralWu in the hood. If you were actually trying to solve the game, I feel like you should have just directly asked me at night, it really isnt that hard.
What are the drawbacks you ask?
If VP is town, there literally isn't a drawback.
If I am mafia, I might be all like "oh no this VP dude is onto me boys, we should kill this VP dude to silence him".
Thing is if the night kill was ever you VP, this literally mega spews Nero as town I believe, so there would be the trade off in that scenario right, plus there could be speculation on why you were killed, you literally did almost nothing to warrant a night kill on you in this thread if indeed you are town Ima be real with you.
Obviously if this isn't the case and all that, I feel like it would literally benefit you one way or the other to try to figure out my alignment, that sounds like common sense to me. Like I literally don't see the drawbacks in questioning me at night.
unless...
you are mafia and just want to just use it as a tool to push me the next day.

Uh oh, now it just sounds like you have an agenda neighbor!

anyway I almost guarantee there is one mafia between VP Baltar and Scorpius.

This game is really just that easy

[MathBlade]

Cape your hammer is not NAI because there is obvious scum motivation to do it.

If anything because it has hyperlinks it was not a planned hammer so lean more town