Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[VP Baltar]

For the record, I made a post last night about 30 mins before deadline expired calling out Cape because I didn't want my actual thoughts on the game to go to the grave with me. I figured if I ate a vig shot or something, at least someone who is town could carry on my concerns today.

Judging by the size and extent of that post Cape just made, it seems clear to me he started writing that response about at that point knowing I was going to come out of the gates at him today. The fact there is no vote there on a giant wall case makes no sense.

I mean, if you think that you clearly aren't looking at my fucking wall post

I have not fully read and checked all your links, no. That will take me some time and I'm at work currently.

[Nero Cain]

honestly, its just a little comical to me at this point. "Nero was pushing Wu and then didn't think that Wu had to be scum. He's so scummy!" like, are these real thoughts?

[tenebrousluminary]

Did you plan on responding to its substance, or just shading Cape for writing it?

I'll look at it in depth and with good faith when I have a moment (which is not now). That being said, I am extremely skeptical a person puts that much effort into a giant post and doesn't vote. It's a failure of being timid as scum.

How long do you think it took Cape to write that and link all those posts? Two hours? You think he just did that on the fly in response to the most I made this morning just a couple hours ago? I'd say that's very unlikely.

What is more likely is he started last night when I posted in our hood and has been honing it with his scum buddies to reply today. He wasn't expecting me to come after him, probably content to let me and Nero fight it out if Nero is town. Cape knew he was going to have to respond with an overwhelming show of effort to sway town to his side. That's fine. I'll let the record speak for itself when I quote you Cape's viewpoint on Wu yesterday. Standby.

I don't see any reason he can't have written it overnight. No one was going to nightkill him after he hammered.

It doesn't read to me like it was "honed with any scumbuddies." The middle of it is actually pretty poorly written and impossible to follow, so I doubt anyone else looked at it.

[Cape90]

Uh oh, now it just sounds like you have an agenda neighbor!

You made that giant post after I called you out and you don't actually vote me?

Who you calling a coward?

This game is really just that easy

Well then the other one better be scum since its so easy .. Cause I ain't

VOTE: VP Baltar

as a word of advice

this only confirms the fact to me that one of you is mafia and you are probably not both town

Why cant they both be town?

I think Scorpius' response here looks like it should be the brightest red light to VP if VP is town.

If VP is town, with Scorpius, I literally failed and did all that work for nothing. Also Scorpius literally put more effort in their meme response thing then the entire game itself. But I think if VP is mafia, it spews Scorpius as town.

So on why they can't both be town... it's because I believe it I am good at reads as town when I put in the effort, and I am going to actually cry if either of these funny guys are town. VP appears as if they are huge flailing right now so if they are town, not sure how much playing of mafia since 2008 has helped him, like come on, I was a literal child back then, I think VP should be better then they are playing right now and is playing the classic aggro mafia.

[VP Baltar]

This is where I am at right now. I think I have too many town reads

town:

Frogsterking - 24, 71, 135, 194, 150

light town:

skitter30 - 33. 67. 172 bottom part sticks out a lot
Aristeia - 218 felt genuine. Voting monkey is good .
fireisredsir - 197 seems to take 178 a little too for granted. 87.
DeasVail - 110, 152, 168 for this last one, I think trying to randomly convince another person of a townread you have is town+.
GeneralWu

null:

Datisi (I will try again later idk),

light mafia:

tenebrousluminary - 116 just has a tone about it that I think looks not so great.

mafia:

humaneatingmonkey

206 makes me like fire and dislike frogs, mostly the townread on generalwu for those posts is questionable

False

both players look good off of that post.

Fire doesn't see it as a sort of joke read as I initially did.

Frogs somehow justifies this read GeneralWu as like "Huh do you mind elaborating why maf have more motivation to make friends than town?" which feels like such a stretch that it just wounds up being a towny stretch.

Wu needs to step the fuck up and start contributing to the game.

Okay coach. Make sure to tell him in your little "neighborhood"

VOTE: Cape

This seems sus for reasoning I think the foundation for will be apparent. Not sure how to explain it yet but I am hoping my wording will evolve into something people can understand.

Both I believe are a bit strange for different reasons, definitely would flip Nord over Wu, but I do kinda think Wu just kinda has been a nonpresence in the game.

I think that 2101 is an odd thing to comment on about the hood that they are not even a part of. Maybe they are trying to cool the discussion of this or just flat out know all 4 of us are town. Either way it feels like pretty empty speculation.

VOTE: GeneralWu

Latest postings from Eyes has been decent. I kinda like the double down on a... very meh post admittedly in 2427. I also kinda like 2404. I think General is a stronger vote then this and definitely Yeet

Also, fireisredsir defended me for a time, right?

this also looks like a WIFOM attempt at a frame job if General flips red

I think you are scum as people are defending you by attacking me versus explaining why they TR you.

You know, I think this might mean that some people defending me are scum.

There is also this which is pretty similar and is a bit generalized too

Here is Cape's full progression on Wu.

Has him as a light town read early on. Defends him a bit. Says he's been a nonpresence. Then votes him and gives three posts of reasoning why.

Like, I would totally buy "eh, I just wanted to end the day." The over explanation of the vote stinks. The progression of the read stinks. The not asking for a claim before hammering in a day when PRs got run up stinks.

Cape can go on and on about "VP is mean and has an agenda", but the facts are in Cape's posts and vote. That has nothing to do about agenda and if he was town, he'd spend his time explaining his thought process and reasoning rather than trying to shade me and act like he's a victim.

[Cape90]

How long do you think it took Cape to write that and link all those posts? Two hours? You think he just did that on the fly in response to the most I made this morning just a couple hours ago? I'd say that's very unlikely.

you think that's improbable? LMAO do I have to link you my town games? You immediately pinged me when you voted me today, so I just took a little bo peep in that ISO of yours and found incredible baggage.

Cape knew he was going to have to respond with an overwhelming show of effort to sway town to his side

I was bored, but thanks for showing you have an agenda. Yet again

[tenebrousluminary]

That has nothing to do about agenda and if he was town, he'd spend his time explaining his thought process and reasoning

In what way is his case against you not this?

[Yeet]

Did you plan on responding to its substance, or just shading Cape for writing it?

I'll look at it in depth and with good faith when I have a moment (which is not now). That being said, I am extremely skeptical a person puts that much effort into a giant post and doesn't vote. It's a failure of being timid as scum.

How long do you think it took Cape to write that and link all those posts? Two hours? You think he just did that on the fly in response to the most I made this morning just a couple hours ago? I'd say that's very unlikely.

What is more likely is he started last night when I posted in our hood and has been honing it with his scum buddies to reply today. He wasn't expecting me to come after him, probably content to let me and Nero fight it out if Nero is town. Cape knew he was going to have to respond with an overwhelming show of effort to sway town to his side. That's fine. I'll let the record speak for itself when I quote you Cape's viewpoint on Wu yesterday. Standby.

It could’ve taken him at least an hour, looking at the time stamps. I don’t think it’s impossible he did that. “On the fly” is a misrep, however.

[MalcolmTucker]

You know an apology for “miscounting” would go a long way. You haven’t shown any regret for quick hammering.

This is a weird post. You, among a number of other people, were keen for turn one to be over and for us to get the game moving. Wu had been given plenty of time to claim and should've known writing was on the wall. Players suddenly being so reticent about the elimination they were pushing, or complaining about an elimination in general when they were willing for the turn to end, is not particularly good.

[Cape90]

This is where I am at right now. I think I have too many town reads

town:

Frogsterking - 24, 71, 135, 194, 150

light town:

skitter30 - 33. 67. 172 bottom part sticks out a lot
Aristeia - 218 felt genuine. Voting monkey is good .
fireisredsir - 197 seems to take 178 a little too for granted. 87.
DeasVail - 110, 152, 168 for this last one, I think trying to randomly convince another person of a townread you have is town+.
GeneralWu

null:

Datisi (I will try again later idk),

light mafia:

tenebrousluminary - 116 just has a tone about it that I think looks not so great.

mafia:

humaneatingmonkey

206 makes me like fire and dislike frogs, mostly the townread on generalwu for those posts is questionable

False

both players look good off of that post.

Fire doesn't see it as a sort of joke read as I initially did.

Frogs somehow justifies this read GeneralWu as like "Huh do you mind elaborating why maf have more motivation to make friends than town?" which feels like such a stretch that it just wounds up being a towny stretch.

Wu needs to step the fuck up and start contributing to the game.

Okay coach. Make sure to tell him in your little "neighborhood"

VOTE: Cape

This seems sus for reasoning I think the foundation for will be apparent. Not sure how to explain it yet but I am hoping my wording will evolve into something people can understand.

Both I believe are a bit strange for different reasons, definitely would flip Nord over Wu, but I do kinda think Wu just kinda has been a nonpresence in the game.

I think that 2101 is an odd thing to comment on about the hood that they are not even a part of. Maybe they are trying to cool the discussion of this or just flat out know all 4 of us are town. Either way it feels like pretty empty speculation.

VOTE: GeneralWu

Latest postings from Eyes has been decent. I kinda like the double down on a... very meh post admittedly in 2427. I also kinda like 2404. I think General is a stronger vote then this and definitely Yeet

Also, fireisredsir defended me for a time, right?

this also looks like a WIFOM attempt at a frame job if General flips red

I think you are scum as people are defending you by attacking me versus explaining why they TR you.

You know, I think this might mean that some people defending me are scum.

There is also this which is pretty similar and is a bit generalized too

Here is Cape's full progression on Wu.

Has him as a light town read early on. Defends him a bit. Says he's been a nonpresence. Then votes him and gives three posts of reasoning why.

Like, I would totally buy "eh, I just wanted to end the day." The over explanation of the vote stinks. The progression of the read stinks. The not asking for a claim before hammering in a day when PRs got run up stinks.

Cape can go on and on about "VP is mean and has an agenda", but the facts are in Cape's posts and vote. That has nothing to do about agenda and if he was town, he'd spend his time explaining his thought process and reasoning rather than trying to shade me and act like he's a victim.

"HoW lOnG dO yOu ThInK iT tOoK VP to write that and link all those posts? Two hours? You think he just did that on the fly in response to the most I made this morning just a couple hours ago? I'd say that's very unlikely."

It wasn't that hard to quote 4 posts was it, in fact, didn't take you that long at all.

[Yeet]

You know an apology for “miscounting” would go a long way. You haven’t shown any regret for quick hammering.

This is a weird post. You, among a number of other people, were keen for turn one to be over and for us to get the game moving. Wu had been given plenty of time to claim and should've known writing was on the wall. Players suddenly being so reticent about the elimination they were pushing, or complaining about an elimination in general when they were willing for the turn to end, is not particularly good.

Please tell me where in my ISO I wanted D1 to be over…?

[Cape90]

You know an apology for “miscounting” would go a long way. You haven’t shown any regret for quick hammering.

I'm sorry I didn't vote you instead

[Yeet]

UNVOTE: Cape90 Cape and Baltar is probably TvT.

[tenebrousluminary]

UNVOTE: Cape90 Cape and Baltar is probably TvT.

Why? I don't agree.

[VP Baltar]

This reads like SvS who had a precalculated fight. I think fua and Skitter can both die.

Okay, vote out the claimed vigilante who received no CC and wasn’t shot last night who also immediately received suspicion because there was no shot.

The lack of a counter claim is probably the strongest reason to give fua another day maybe. IDK, I really hate that they didn't claim the target and I think Datisi makes some OK arguments around scum motivation for that.

[fireisredsir]

VP reactions here feel kinda scummy to me

[MalcolmTucker]

I think a lot of Cape's reasoning in their post on the previous page is solid to be honest. Articulates the inconsistency and incoherence of the whole Wu/Nero/VP better than I could.

[Yeet]

I think Cape’s reaction today has been pretty annoying but townie. And I independently TR’d VP, also his reactions are what I’d expect as well. And we also vibe on a lot of sentiments but at the end of the road we look for different things as specific alignment tells. I don’t think I explained that very well but that roughly encapsulates where I am on him. There’s very little reason for me to think Baltar is scum, at least.

Fua v skitter
Cape v Baltar
Nero

All these slot seem like town to me. I would like to push outside of these 5 today.

[MalcolmTucker]

You know an apology for “miscounting” would go a long way. You haven’t shown any regret for quick hammering.

This is a weird post. You, among a number of other people, were keen for turn one to be over and for us to get the game moving. Wu had been given plenty of time to claim and should've known writing was on the wall. Players suddenly being so reticent about the elimination they were pushing, or complaining about an elimination in general when they were willing for the turn to end, is not particularly good.

Please tell me where in my ISO I wanted D1 to be over…?

Earlier in the game you were keen to get a wagon going on Datisi. You were then fine to jump on the Wu bandwagon to, again, help keep the game moving. If you didn't want the turn to end then I apologise for reading you wrong, but the impression I've very much gotten is you were fine for us to push ahead with an elimination.

[Yeet]

Wanting to move the game is not the same as wanting D1 to be over immediately.

[VP Baltar]

keep in mind, Yeet literally voted me first and VP literally passively called me town all of day 1.

I called you likely scum in the hood long before Yeet voted you. So what are you even saying here?

[Datisi]

IDK, I really hate that they didn't claim the target and I think Datisi makes some OK arguments around scum motivation for that.

they claimed they shot at fire, right? ngl, part of me thought maybe that's the sk who got blocked and didn't wanna claim because they didn't wanna fakeclaim in case someone has info on them, but also didn't wanna trueclaim because what vig shoots fire lmfao

but probably not that likely i guess

[Yeet]

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

[MalcolmTucker]

Perhaps I am able to ascertain why you'd think that. You may have a point.

VOTE: Dragons

Vote Wu or HEM.

Large games should consolidate D1 as fast as possible or we will end up at 100+ pages for D1 and that's just annoying later in the game.

THIS right here is why my sequence on Datisi was not wrong. We need to get things moving and start pushing in this kind of game since opinions will be far more fragmented. The probability that close to half the people in this game have the same top scumread is far lower than in a smaller game. That means we need to compromise and not always vote our top scumread at any given point. We don't want to dilly dally the whole day and scramble with no info at the end. I am saying this now so that we do not get caught in problems down the line. Just to put my money where my mouth is, I will VOTE: humaneatingmonkey, even though my last impression of him is light town (although I feel more nullish on him anyway).

Yes, Aristeia's townread on Datisi gives me some pause on him being scum. No, that doesn't mean I still don't want more pressure on him and to run him up. If people want to start voting Datisi again I will gladly switch back. And me pointing out that I didn't think many people at the time had a favorable opinion on him.

I haven't fully caught up (nor do I intend to in such a large game) but it seems things have changed. It is concerning that people are using my recent activity to discredit the townie vibes that I gave earlier. It is possible that this is scum motivated to keep the PoE wider, but it seems more likely to me that this is just poor activity logic.

Here is a point on day one when both Yeet/VP argue for pushing the game forward to the point where they'd basically be keen for an elimination so the thread doesn't get too clogged. But now Cape is suspicious for hammering someone they were largely fine to eliminate all along.

Also of course this has Yeet voting for a now night-eliminated mason even though they didn't really believe they were mafia at the time. Hardly the approach of players fine for a round to drag out to be ultra-careful and not end up forcing a role reveal.

Increasingly don't think there's any reason the two players here can't be mafia together.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, I was never directly reached out about that. Maybe you should have literally asked me, especially if you think I am mafia for doing so, I am right there I literally can respond to you.

Oh yeah totally....

VOTE: Cape90 Let’s start with this greedy hammer vote. Sure it could be town miscounting but scum could totally use that as an excuse. I am unhappy that instead of running Wu up, we ended up straight hammering him, and I have seen scum just go for the kill because wifom. Why Cape is getting zero scrutiny is shocking to me.Plus they are in a hood with VP and Nero and skitter who I all believe to be stronger town than Cape atm.

VOTE: cape

Gonna be a min before I can catch up but this was also my read overnight.

Cape, can you explain how you went from calling Wu town to hammering him?

Also, why did you keep explaining your vote after you hammered?

OH SHIIIIIII......