Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[DeasVail]

for one, that they kept/keep posting with the same or lower level of "awkwardness" despite catching heat, a newer player would've cracked. i'll to through their iso later to give specific examples of things that struck me as experienced if you'd like

That would be cool, but no rush as I recognize you have other things to get to!

Also I sort of feel as if tenebro has cracked, but maybe you mean something else.

[DeasVail]

Whoever thinks of saying this applies to me first gets detention.

I mean, I didn't think it applied to you and I'm not sure why you would need to add this qualifier but you don't have to respond to that necessarily if you don't want to. Just an observation.

[Datisi]

by cracked i usually mean freeze and stop posting, but it can also be someone obvscuming to the point where anyone with a quarter of a brain could see the person's scum. the fact that neither of the two happened yet tells me they're probably not going to happen.

[DeasVail]

by cracked i usually mean freeze and stop posting, but it can also be someone obvscuming to the point where anyone with a quarter of a brain could see the person's scum. the fact that neither of the two happened yet tells me they're probably not going to happen.

ahh, got it. I've rarely seen anything like that happen, even in newbie games, but most of my mafia playing was many years ago.

[Datisi]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88600

laplacian from my last game is a decent example, i think

[DeasVail]

I guess my position is that tenebro does not strike me as someone playing with experience and confidence, regardless of their alignment, and I am if anything concerned by the inconsistencies between periods of not knowing who to vote for/not feeling comfortable pushing a non-main target and occasional other periods of confidently asserting someone as scum (fua). I think that self-consciousness is something that is very hard to shake off as scum, and while I agree that it is more prominent in newer players, I don't see tenebro's experience level as super critical to my read given the evidence in-thread of low confidence.
In regards to continuing to post, I think that can be just as much a personality/playstyle thing as an experience thing. On the rare occasion where I have seen someone ghost as scum, it's just as often been experienced players as newer players.

That's my take at least.

[DeasVail]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88600

laplacian from my last game is a decent example, i think

thanks, I see what you mean

[Frogsterking]

I'm looking for the diamond in the rough posts. Where are they?

[Enchant]

Spoiler:

[MalcolmTucker]

I've gone back and forth on them but tenebros most recent posts in the past few pages are incredibly mafia-leaning. Notably there is a lot of deflection with stuff like "go target your friends" without that ever actually being explained. They seem completely unwilling to actually accept the idea people may think they're mafia in a way that feels dishonest and like they're trying to come across as frustrated townie.

The whole idea someone like Deas is just trying to protect their friends while tenebros is being some maverick thinking outside the box just fundamentally isn't true when their main push yesterday was STD, simply based on their inactivity without much post-based evidence. Like I don't think a Scorpious wagon is a particularly great idea, but you can't say claim they're an easy target and then pivot onto STD instead. Major inconsistency.

VOTE: tenebrousluminary

[Frogsterking]

Nearly everyone suspects me to some degree or another, but so far I have produced town-indicative content in response to votes against me. I believe that this suspicion persisting in light of the fact I am scumhunting actively and unafraid to take stances indicates something. I believe that I am seen as weak and eventually pushable because I am newer.

What do you think is town-indicative about your content.

What stances have you been unafraid to take?

I'm not playing this game anymore.

Is this even a question I can reasonably answer? I am tired of talking about myself. I am constantly being hounded for explanations of everything I do by half the game in a way that does not seem to apply to everyone else, and then I'm attacked for being too defensive. In this case, no one will even care about my answer, since if I know something looks town, I could have done it to look town. Why should I bother?

I have offered reads contrary to popular perception on multiple occasions. If you cannot be bothered to go and look, at this point, neither can I. I'm sick of this.

I understand that this sort of process can be frustrating if you're town (or even if you're scum!), but I don't make these posts for no reason. My impression of your gameplay is that it is safe and largely following the momentum of the town. If I am wrong then I need you to prove it. When you say that you have "offered reads contrary to popular perception on multiple occasions" I need you to point it out to me because I don't see it.

You have said that you think scum is trying to mis-elim you, but I don't have a strong impression from you of who

are

the scum trying to miselim you. Regarding me and fire, arguably the two main players have been pushing you: You gave subtle indication of thinking fire might be scum early on but never went anywhere with it and most recently have expressed a strong townread. Apart from expressing that one thing I did looked town, you have not made much mention of a read of me. Is it a coincidence that myself and fire are also players that do not seem to be widely suspected?

The vote on STD came after I pointed out that you were largely following momentum, but it very much matches the safe play that I have expected from you. Voting a lower-activity player for pressure is not something scum would expect to be seen as controversial.

Deas:

I was scumreading fua on this basis earlier for their poorly thought out attack on me. I am now ignoring the slot due to its vig claim. I am becoming concerned about you, if silently, because you're providing yet another vector by which I am forced to spend all my time defending myself, or so would be the case if I continue to play this game the way you want me to. fire made a strong push against me earlier and I scumread him for it, but in light of his convincing insights on fua, I have rethought this. In fact, that he is not at all concerned with how he is perceived may be a good sign.

One example of my being contrary was taking monkey's side against Aristeia. I was also one of the first to go after Datisi, but since everyone seemed to think I only did so because Yeet did first, I do not expect this to resonate. I feel there are likely more examples but again cannot be arsed to look for them and if you wish to park your vote on me for that, so be it.

But overall, at this point, it's the softer and more timid shading of me coming from other places that I'm more concerned about. I'm being kept in the elim pool and saved for later. No, I do not have an exhaustive list of who is guilty of this. My thinking is evolving in real time. Surely I don't read as someone who showed up to today with a plan given what a mess my suspicions have been.

Thanks for that, Enchant.

[MalcolmTucker]

April's slot increasingly feels like it might be mafia. It had come under a lot of pressure before they replaced in and I didn't necessarily agree at the time, but their posts have been incredibly tentative and the idea used by them that we can't suspect them because they've only made a few posts - despite being a replacement - is hilarious.

[tenebrousluminary]

Like I don't think a Scorpious wagon is a particularly great idea, but you can't say claim they're an easy target and then pivot onto STD instead. Major inconsistency.

Good thing that is not the order in which those events happened.

[MalcolmTucker]

Like I don't think a Scorpious wagon is a particularly great idea, but you can't say claim they're an easy target and then pivot onto STD instead. Major inconsistency.

Good thing that is not the order in which those events happened.

You consistently have said you don't think voting for Scorpious is a good idea, and you consistently suspected STD yesterday. Would you be happy with STD's elimination now? If not why did you spend so much time putting pressure on them instead of a player who might actually be eliminated?

[tenebrousluminary]

Would you be happy with STD's elimination now? If not why did you spend so much time putting pressure on them instead of a player who might actually be eliminated?

Not especially.

"So much time" meaning I voted him and barely said anything else about it?

[tenebrousluminary]

How does this magical "player who might be eliminated" status come about if not by starting somewhere, anyway? Why am I only allowed to vote for certain players? This is yet another narrative that has repeatedly been pushed on me and only me.

[MalcolmTucker]

VOTE: Dragons

Eyes and Scorpious have gotten plenty of flak for doing nothing. Why hasn't Dragons? I realize they made one or two slightly townie sounding posts, but the extent to which everyone has completely ignored them does not sit right with me.

Dragons is most notably different because they were the only one of the three to vote GeneralWu. Additionally, I feel they are the most capable of giving more, they have the fewest posts and I have the least sense of who they are within the game.

Also, I have felt at times that Dragons has in fact read the game. Scorp isn't doing anything because they have not read the game. What's Dragons' excuse?

Dragons is most notably different because they were the only one of the three to vote GeneralWu. Additionally, I feel they are the most capable of giving more, they have the fewest posts and I have the least sense of who they are within the game.

Also, I have felt at times that Dragons has in fact read the game. Scorp isn't doing anything because they have not read the game. What's Dragons' excuse?

read my posts i've been giving reads and shit

Exactly. You are present enough to have reads. So you are capable of producing content.

Dragons is most notably different because they were the only one of the three to vote GeneralWu. Additionally, I feel they are the most capable of giving more, they have the fewest posts and I have the least sense of who they are within the game.

Also, I have felt at times that Dragons has in fact read the game. Scorp isn't doing anything because they have not read the game. What's Dragons' excuse?

read my posts i've been giving reads and shit

Exactly. You are present enough to have reads. So you are capable of producing content.

and i am so what's your point

You appear to be doing so right now. I am explaining why I voted for you a while ago.

One example of my being contrary was taking monkey's side against Aristeia.

why hasn't my taking of monkey's side against aristeia shaped your read of me

I don't think you're partners with her, if that helps.

At the time, I didn't suspect her and your take was pretty hot. I just thought she was making a bad argument.

You pushed him plenty.

[tenebrousluminary]

The last two of those are me explaining my past actions because you all won't leave me alone for five full minutes, not pushing him.

[MalcolmTucker]

How does this magical "player who might be eliminated" status come about if not by starting somewhere, anyway?

Why am I only allowed to vote for certain players? This is yet another narrative that has repeatedly been pushed on me and only me.

But you're saying you didn't even actually want him to be eliminated? That's my point. You're chastising other players for not being bold enough for their reads or for protecting their friends and yet your initial vote yesterday and some of your sustained pressure afterwards was on STD while you simultaneously argued voting for Scorpious was lazy.

Again the stuff at the end like being a victim of a "narrative", this is just another deflection because whenever you are asked perfectly legitimate questions you continually want others to believe you are being targeted in a vendetta or whatever to plant seeds of doubt. Why can you simply not reply to an accusation with a basic response that doesn't attempt to deflect from the issue at hand?

[Frogsterking]

Malcolm what is the point you're trying to make right now and is it addressed toward luminary or other players who are considering voting luminary?

[Frogsterking]

Luminary are you pushing Malcolm now, what is happening?

[MalcolmTucker]

Like you claim you're the one making bold reads while Deas protects his friends, but who have you actually consistently wanted eliminated? Who have you been properly pushing for info all that consistently? Like the posts you made on STD yesterday were more developed than your reads on any other player. And yet you are getting at others for supposedly being lazy - I don't think you've been lazy for what it's worth, I just think this idea you've been any more developed or interesting in your reads than the average player to be entirely false.

[tenebrousluminary]

But you're saying you didn't even actually want him to be eliminated? That's my point.

I am saying I now do not want that. Because that is the question you asked me. You did not ask me whether I wanted that at the time. This bullshit is exactly what I am tired of.

Why can you simply not reply to an accusation with a basic response that doesn't attempt to deflect from the issue at hand?

I have done so endlessly and been repeatedly told that I am not doing it while doing it. Kindly shove it.

[tenebrousluminary]

Luminary are you pushing Malcolm now, what is happening?

No. I am merely being frustrated.

[tenebrousluminary]

Like the posts you made on STD yesterday were more developed than your reads on any other player.

This is simply a lie.

Go away.