Newbie 2090 (Game Over)

[Frozen Angel]

Vote Count 1-13

marcistar (4)[E1]:

Mr Turtle, MorbidDino, TTTT, BigTerp

Somnus (2):

Lukewarm, PlmPestPlaY

PlmPestPlaY (1):

Somnus

Not Voting (2):

marcistar, furtiveglance

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline: March 15, 5 am GMT.

Countdown: (expired on 2022-03-15 05:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[marcistar]

tsk tsk trying to hammer me while im at work? and giving our cutie replacement literally no time to say anything before the hammer?? SMH

if

thry're scum ur giving them and their partner an easy pass to plan out their reads during nightphase

[marcistar]

i have to find a post

[TTTT]

this is me posting but not unvoting
furtive you should wait for dino to post some thoughts
and then get a claim from marci if you still want to hammer

[TTTT]

I feel like I need to say that if anybody is opposed to this elim they should speak up
don't worry about a possible red flip making you look bad
this is no time to be timid

[marcistar]

As far as Alianna's posts on page 1 and 2, they felt very flaky to me. Like someone that was excited to play, came into the game, and didn't really know what to say so just joined into the fun banter that the first part of the game had. But at the same time, that would provide good cover for scum to seem engaged and get the post count up yet be rather forgettable posts. As far as their interaction with TTTT, it could come across as rather contrived. You're making some good/interesting observations and asking some good/interesting questions.

I'm not sure if this is exactly whaf I'm looking for but phoneposting is hard. T_T
Originally I had similar thoughts about Aliannas posts. I still don't think thats redeemable. Nothing they've done have really spoken to me yknow? Some of you "townread them for sounding relaxed" but it's literally not that hard at all to sound relaxed when you're doing nothing too game advancing. That's why I think the townreads on them are "too quick" at best. Their posts didnt really do much for the game up until their readslist which -- someone, i forgot eho -- took in the worst light and used to make preflip associatves, so obviously the list didn't stick well with everyone.
But I don't wanna hate on the slot too hard, because I'm nice and wanna give MorbidDino time to play first.

If I'm the elimination, so be it. But looks like nobody cares for claims anymore, hmm? Looks like someone was tryna hammer me without me claiming

[Lukewarm]

I oppose of the hammer prior to Dino posting again.

After that we can move forward I guess - but definitely let Dino weigh in before the wagon passes with them on it

[furtiveglance]

I'm just saying Marci is my biggest scumread right now, I would vote them if they weren't at E-1 and people keep demanding that I don't 'hold my vote'. I wasn't going to hammer without a claim

[marcistar]

I'll be honest, I forgot why I originally said "Mr Turtle" in response to whoever it was asking me who scum is.

BUT looking at it now I think its something in the beginning posts of thrirs?? Like up until the readslist I asked for, they just seemed more to be asking questions or explaining things instead of thinking about players. I think they do alot of this thing where they're like "I think <<this thing you literally just did>> is weird" but doesn't outright say that thats scummy in the post?

I think in their (last?? I think IDK im bad on mobile) readlist lower tiers of me / furativeglance / pimpestplay looks like its very not gonna make waves at all like safe I think..?

[marcistar]

The reason I said I thought Somnus was town is because I think he sounds very convinced/confident idk what word fits best but choose one. Granted that was my very early on read on them and I haven't had time to reevaluate since, I think they have been thinking about game and not just "mindlessly" going with majority. Like it seems like they're stleast trying to dig a bit deeper than most.. or want to? IDK where I read that but I remember that very clearly.

Thats all for todays work break folks!

[Lukewarm]

Also, saw two people comment on me giving tttt a town pass for that meta work.

It was distinctly more then just town read for effort. Yes scum can effort, and even do meta work. That was not the point.

Scum can do meta work to push through a town miselimin. Scum can do meta work to stop a scum elim. But I find scum way less likely to do meta work without reason / agenda.

If Marci is town, and TTTT is scum - he simply did not need to do it. She is likely the elim anyways. And to top it off, he did not even come back with any actionable meta findings on her.

If Marci is scum, and TTTT is scum - he could be on the Somnus wagon or out pushing a PPP wagon. Instead he is voting Marci. Also, he did not come back with any actionable meta findings on her.

You can disagree with me if you want, but this particular tell has literally never failed me so far (of course, once I mention it people can try to do it on purpose to bamboozle me). I used it to for T3 in this game, Zyla in this game, wanted to for ffery in this game (but did not trust it). All three of those were town.

So far, "you obviously did a lot of meta work for seemingly no good reason" has yet to let me down. (The seemingly no good reason is an IMPORTANT part of that take btw) - so unless something drastically changes from TTTT, I am happily town locking them for it

[Lukewarm]

the hydra game he mentioned that you forgot

Also, this never happened. I never forgot I was in a hydra with her, and he never accused me of that.

He basically said "I would expect you to have a read on her since you hydra'd with her recently" and I said "yeah, sorry. Don't have a great read on her."

--

I am fully aware that if Marci does flip scum, I look pretty bad from it (which is the actual implication from TTTT's point here).

[Mr Turtle]

I've decided to ISO Lukewarm to see if I was able to move them out of my null range.

Regarding marcistar

: During the first twenty four hours of the game, Lukewarm pretty much waits for her to show up (11, 77 & 157) with the reasoning that she is "easiest to read in the very start of the game, before she has found her footing". What I don't like about this is that they barely do anything and it feels as though they are hiding behind said reasoning to not do anything. Having someone to meta read at the beginning of the game makes it easier to "get into" the game so to speak, but it's also an easy way for scum to look busy. Then Luke has a bit of a back and forth of friendly banter with marcistar (160 & 164) and paired with their hyper-focus regarding their interactions with her (162 & 282), I deem them unlikely to be mafia partners. Note that when 164 was posted, 7 out of 10 posts in Luke's ISO had explicitly mentioned, quoted or been about marcistar. Later, Luke starts defending marcistar based on meta reads (286 & 299), claiming that most of her lack of vote and joke scumfession were NAI. In 294 they post their first concrete read on marcistar as "null scum". To me, this progression seems a bit messy, which I rate as being more likely towny than not. In 313, Luke voices his distaste with the E-1 vote, something which I also see as towny. They then make a non-read on marci by saying that they "want to hold off comitting to a read on her" and place them in their null range (317 & 318). Furthermore, Luke cements marcistar's null position by defending their retracted vote and subtly defending her (347, 348 & 352). I like Luke trying to slow the thread down on the marcistar wagon, it doesn't strike me as benefiting the mafia. 396, 399 & 400 are used to defend marci once again based on their scum reads, however Luke backtracks a bit by saying "I don't think that this is a slam dunk Marci is town case". I am not overjoyed by the hedginess on marcistar since a lot of Luke's posts have been used defending her. The hedginess is continued in 412, the posts 413, 414, 415 & 419 are meta dives into marci's past games, but Luke admits that he doesn't have any reliable meta tells and thus marcistar stays in the null range.

Conclusion

: Lukewarm spends a lot of time and posts semi-defending marcistar by dismissing many reasons for scum reading her as NAI while staying null throughout the entire game (minus the occasional "maybe town" or "maybe scum" comment). What makes me dislike the null read especially is the fact that I count 25-30 posts made that more or less directly have to do with marci in a 70 post ISO. With that being said, I don't think that Luke can be mafia if marcistar is. No-one enters the thread and spends a third of their posts on their scum buddy. Overall, I rate Luke's interactions with marci as lean town for them. If marci is town, I'm going to scrutinize Luke some more. Outside of the associative reads, I understand that Luke latches on to the player they best know to post about. This is something I would do as well. However, I'm a bit disappointed that the reads always end nullish.

General thoughts

: On the other hand, the rest of Luke's ISO has been quite towny since their reappearance 281. I don't want to dwell on this as long as the Luke-marci interactions, but I have a couple comments here as well. What stuck out to me the most was Luke not going with the flow. When Luke reemerged at 281, their reads were independent from thread consensus. Multiple reads lists had been posted, it would have been really easy to simply "copy" them without having anyone really bat an eye. But Luke didn't, instead they scum-cased Somnus and placed a scum lean on BigTerp in 316. The lock-town on TTTT also doesn't benefit scum!Luke (420). As mafia, Luke would want to either
a) push for TTTT to get lynched, or
b) night-kill TTTT without having a strong connection tied to the kill.
But by putting TTTT as their highest town, scum!Luke wouldn't be able to do a) or b) without receiving suspicion. The fact that Luke town-locked TTTT without having pressure on them to do so makes me feel better about them.

Conclusion

:

I'm comfortable with putting Luke as a town read

. What Luke lacks in towniness regarding their marcistar read they make up with their other posts. Particularly if marci turns out to be mafia it will make me more confident in my Luke read. They have just had a towny thread presence in this game.

[BigTerp]

Intent to hammer Marcistar

.
Have we been here before?

Marcistar has been prodded. But, at this point, I don't care. Hammer away!!

this is me posting but not unvoting
furtive you should wait for dino to post some thoughts
and then get a claim from marci if you still want to hammer

I've gotta agree with TTTT here. My post about "hammer away" was out of frustration. The game seemed to have screeched to a halt, we had a replacement who has made all of 1 post in 24 hours and Marci was prodded without a post for nearly 2 IRL days and looking like we were in for a 3rd replacement already in day 1.

[TTTT]

good stuff Turtle
I agree regarding Luke's general towniness
heterodox readslist is town+
I don't think the locktown on me can't come from scum
it makes me a more likely N1 kill which doesn't point a finger at anybody in particular, which could benefit scum!Luke
I'm not surprised that town!Luke views me as town
I know my scumgame fails in many ways to emulate how I play as town
and I figured eventually Luke would see the difference
so yeah it's again town+ when scum!Luke could have focused elsewhere
like it's still possible that we end up in a situation where scum don't shoot me tonight
no claims have been made at all day1 (as it should be)
so scum!Luke doesn't have a lot of benefit from clearing me right now

[TTTT]

no claims have been made at all day1 (as it should be)

meaning no claims so far
to be clear...
I'm not saying you shouldn't always have no claims day1

[BigTerp]

tsk tsk trying to hammer me while im at work? and giving our cutie replacement literally no time to say anything before the hammer?? SMH

if

thry're scum ur giving them and their partner an easy pass to plan out their reads during nightphase

These is one of the more scummy posts I've read this game. I'm still convinced you're scum and believe you are laying low to try and avoid the pressure that's been put on you. You avoided posting for 2 IRL days. If you're work schedule is that tough, I apologize. But you shouldn't have committed to a game like this.

[Frozen Angel]

Searching for a replacement for MorbidDino.

[TTTT]

FFS

[TTTT]

that slot is probably scum

[Mr Turtle]

Waw. It appears to be true, at least for this type of setup. Given what I've learned, I am now a lot less interested in the game for some reason. Sooo eeeh double wappa? VOTE: Somnus

Ok. So there's 2 I didn't understand, but there's a couple other ones that I have questions about. Surely you knew that in mafia, people get voted off, correct? I'm not being sarcastic when I ask that, so please don't take my question as me being snide because I promise you I'm being serious. I've never played on Epic Mafia, but is it so fundamentally different from forum mafia that you didn't know the goal that we're working towards? What changed to make you less interested in the game pertaining to the setup? Help me understand.

It's been a long time and I doubt I was any good at it, but in the version of the game that I played, random voting was bad, from what I recall. I fail to see the distinction between that and what we're doing.

Random voting is bad in night-focused setups and games. These are generally found on more casual forums with a PR-filled setup. Here, the PRs (power roles) can do the work at night to catch mafia and the game first really starts by day 2 when there is some concrete information to go off of.

Random voting is good in day-focused setups and games. These are generally found on more "hardcore" forums or setups with a small amount of PRs and many VTs (vanilla townies). Here, there is nothing concrete to go off of and you have to throw random votes until something sticks or until you can make a read on a player. There is a lesser reliability on the PRs.

Random voting is technically the "better option" for playing mafia (except for MeLo as Luke has already said), but in more relaxed settings it is often seen as worse or "wrong-er".

[BigTerp]

Luke and Mr. Turtle have some good recent breakdowns. I know that thorough analysis like that doesn't lock a player as town, but both seem to be genuine and trying to advance the game. It doesn't hurt that a lot of their analysis aligns with my own thoughts, so I've gotta be careful there. Luke has been a pretty strong town lean for me for awhile, but Mr. Turtle's recent post take him from a null/scummy read to a null/town read for me at this point.

I'm going to try and give some more thoughts tomorrow when I have the time. Having to replace the replacement (LOL!!!) has me a bit deflated.

[BigTerp]

that slot is probably scum

Why do you say this?

[Lukewarm]

Random voting is technically the "better option" for playing mafia (except for MeLo as Luke has already said), but in more relaxed settings it is often seen as worse or "wrong-er".

This was not quite my point.

Random votes are kinda forced super early. Like pages 1-5. But no one should be casting random votes after page 5.

But you just kind of have to realized that some one NEEDS to be voted out every single day, except for MELo, and day 1 you are gonna have weaker reasons to go on - and do your best under those conditions - But don't random vote

[Lukewarm]

that slot is probably scum

Why do you say this?

Scum are statistically more likely to rep out then town. Not enough more so that you can reliably use it, but two replacemennts on the same slot this quickly doubles that statistic. It does not bode well for the slot.

Also though, Dino's tenure in the slot was individually kinda bad.