Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[Eyes without a face]

Eyes, are you saying in 3650 that Dragons is less calm when they roll scum?

No. I'm just describing STD's play as I see it in this game. I do not claim to have meta on them.

[Nero Cain]

y aren't you voting?

[Eyes without a face]

He's the leading wagon

OK, who has been defending him? How much resistance is there for his wagon? It looks to me that everyone and their mother have been contemplating voting VP at one point or another with only 2 exceptions: myself and Yeet.

[Eyes without a face]

I don't care if he agrees with me or not just that town reading you off of your 15th post makes him look informed and not really paying attention to the game.

Then why the fuck aren't you giving me shit for town reading you even before I townread VP? And why the fuck aren't you asking me for new reasons that might have strengthened my read on you despite you being so thick it would take a ballistic missile to "maybe" get YOU to reconsider?

[Nero Cain]

you could give me reasons to reconsider but you can't be assed to read past his 15th post.

[Yeet]

VP Baltar when was the last time you got elimmed as either town or scum?

[Eyes without a face]

y aren't you voting?

because you want me to, and I will never do anything that you want me to do.

[Eyes without a face]

you could give me reasons to reconsider but you can't be assed to read past his 15th post.

Who says? I like his posts today too. I didn't read the rest of D1 admittedly but I like what I have seen today. And I just did give you one more reason: Where the fuck is the resistance to VP's wagon?

[Nero Cain]

Well, I mean, you gotta vote to eliminate scum and you by not vote you just really aren't helping town.

[Eyes without a face]

And I said I wasn't going to do it

because

you want me to. I was indeed thinking of joining VP on Frog, but with you insisting that I do vote I changed my mind.

[Nero Cain]

What have you seen today that you liked from him?

If you think VP is town b/c "no res" then lead us to a scum elimination but you can't even do that.

[Nero Cain]

So....you rather just let VP get eliminated rather than try to get a Frog lim but b/c big meanie Cain wants you to be pro-town and use your weapon you won't. makes sense

[Scorpious]

If anyone cares, my strongst scum reads right now are VP, Cape,and Datisi...

Time to commute..

[VP Baltar]

VP Baltar when was the last time you got elimmed as either town or scum?

Um, as town I would need to check. I usually get NKed eventually. As scum, I think it is like WAY back in 2020 when I rolled scum against Datisi and that was late game, like D4 or 5.

I can get you specifics if you want. I don't have a good memory for games. It's pretty rare I get limmed overall though.

[Eyes without a face]

So....you rather just let VP get eliminated rather than try to get a Frog lim but b/c big meanie Cain wants you to be pro-town and use your weapon you won't. makes sense

Man you're good with words you should be a politician. How am I letting VP get yeeted when I am not only not voting him but hve actively said I TR him over and over again? And how is my vote on Frog going to make any difference if everyone wants to vote VP anyway? Me not voting Wu (whom I was willing to vote btw) didn't stop him from getting yeeted, and the irony is I in fact was voting Frog at the time.

[VP Baltar]

VP Baltar when was the last time you got elimmed as either town or scum?

Um, as town I would need to check. I usually get NKed eventually. As scum, I think it is like WAY back in 2020 when I rolled scum against Datisi and that was late game, like D4 or 5.

I can get you specifics if you want. I don't have a good memory for games. It's pretty rare I get limmed overall though.

Ah forgot this game. I got limmed as town in LimLo because Toog instavoted me for no discernable reason right at the day start. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13168613

That was in December and the last time I was limmed as any alignment.

[DeasVail]

Thoughts on VP:

I think it's already been mentioned, but imo VP's posting is fine up until 684 and the follow-up in 685. It has a really strained feel and seems to be pushing an agenda of discrediting Nero in a public space.
This seems to be part of a trend of criticism of Nero that to me honestly appears exaggerated in an attempt to appear to have genuine town thought processes, but largely comes across as forced. 2657 "you could just be terrible town here" is a good example I think.

The other main thing for me is the Day 2 vote progression. I don't like the vote on tenebros in 3392 nor the rationalisation in 3479. I think it's fairly obvious that a big part of VP voting tenebro (as town or scum) would be because it was a more popular wagon than VP's other scumreads, yet VP seems to avoid admitting that, and the change of vote in 3502 seems to be pretending that the fact that the tenebro wagon fell apart is not why VP's changing his vote.

I don't strongly think that VP is scum, but there is no one who I strongly think is scum. Most importantly, I don't have strong reason to think that VP is town, that would make me question the slight qualms I have with his play. VP is also someone that, if scum, I wouldn't necessarily expect to have stronger qualms with than what I do now.

[fireisredsir]

The other main thing for me is the Day 2 vote progression. I don't like the vote on tenebros in 3392 nor the rationalisation in 3479. I think it's fairly obvious that a big part of VP voting tenebro (as town or scum) would be because it was a more popular wagon than VP's other scumreads, yet VP seems to avoid admitting that, and the change of vote in 3502 seems to be pretending that the fact that the tenebro wagon fell apart is not why VP's changing his vote.

i knew there was something i was forgetting to bring up as an example of what he implies his reasons to be not looking like the genuine explanation of his actions. both of those votes follow the same pattern

[VP Baltar]

The other main thing for me is the Day 2 vote progression. I don't like the vote on tenebros in 3392 nor the rationalisation in 3479. I think it's fairly obvious that a big part of VP voting tenebro (as town or scum) would be because it was a more popular wagon than VP's other scumreads, yet VP seems to avoid admitting that, and the change of vote in 3502 seems to be pretending that the fact that the tenebro wagon fell apart is not why VP's changing his vote.

I don't think it is accurate to say that I only voted tenebros because his wagon is bigger (though of course I don't want to be eliminated here). I had tried to engage with tene several times before that and ask questions to understand their play, all while tene was being somewhat antagonistic to me.

As to your second point, that's just silly. I started the frogster wagon and it was never more popular than the tene wagon. What you're saying just isn't in line with votes. I could have just stayed on tene, what is the scum motivation for me to get off that?

[DeasVail]

I could have just stayed on tene, what is the scum motivation for me to get off that?

Tene was obviously not being eliminated at that point though? And trying to push that through yourself would have made you look a lot worse.

[DeasVail]

Not sure why you would think that you could have just stayed on tene

[DeasVail]

VOTE: VP Baltar

[VP Baltar]

Not sure why you would think that you could have just stayed on tene

He's a more popular target than frog very clearly.

[VP Baltar]

Like, that's a no brainer.

[VP Baltar]

If I'm scum in that situation, I could just sit back and see how the day develops and wind town!tenebros up into more emotional outbursts. Instead, I choose to go back to a wagon I think has an actual strong case that isn't super popular.

The key to finding scum is to look at motivations. That's always the giveaway. There is no clear motivation there.