Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[DeasVail]

If I'm scum in that situation, I could just sit back and see how the day develops and wind town!tenebros up into more emotional outbursts. Instead, I choose to go back to a wagon I think has an actual strong case that isn't super popular.

The key to finding scum is to look at motivations. That's always the giveaway. There is no clear motivation there.

I disagree wholeheartedly.

You are in serious danger of being eliminated. Tenebro was a very viable alternative for you until I and then Fire backed off. At that point, sitting back will not work. Clearly the main pushers of the tenebro wagon were no longer reading their outbursts as scummy.

So what do you do then? There is no easy alternative. The best thing you can do is pursue a scumread you can pretend to believe in and hope people buy it.

The fact that you are pretending there are other viable scum play is concerning.

[VP Baltar]

The fact that you are pretending there are other viable scum play is concerning.

You already voted. Don't be so dramatic.

I'll get my final thoughts together here when I can. Think I'm at E-2 rn?

[VP Baltar]

You are in serious danger of being eliminated. Tenebro was a very viable alternative for you until I and then Fire backed off. At that point, sitting back will not work. Clearly the main pushers of the tenebro wagon were no longer reading their outbursts as scummy.

Also, just want you on record here, you're townreading tene now correct?

[April Ludgate]

April's fairly flimsy mafia case against me.

I've specifically stated that there isn't a strong case to be made on you, which is a testament to your positioning this game.

Malcolm is choosing a pure shade to the case tactic.

I guarantee you, post game, I will be correct.

This is another thing I posted when they were pushing Tene. They aren't pushing as scum, they're pointing out flaws in town's play and negging as scum.

[DeasVail]

You are in serious danger of being eliminated. Tenebro was a very viable alternative for you until I and then Fire backed off. At that point, sitting back will not work. Clearly the main pushers of the tenebro wagon were no longer reading their outbursts as scummy.

Also, just want you on record here, you're townreading tene now correct?

Yes.

Also I’ll be as dramatic as I like

[VP Baltar]

Also I’ll be as dramatic as I like

I demand a feathered boa if you're going to insist.

[April Ludgate]

Yeah, VPB gonna flip green.

[April Ludgate]

i feel free that green aura exuding out of the wagon steam

[VP Baltar]

April, I'd like you to take a final position on my wagon please. Is this a good or a bad yeet for today.

Pedit - ok, why do you say that?

[April Ludgate]

your wagon icky

[April Ludgate]

also notice how Malcolm is actively staying off of it, but trying to heat things up between VPB and myself. He's actively trying to break a string from under the radar.

[April Ludgate]

Here's the thing, people don't like the case/reasoning I made. Big whoop, don't mean I'm not right. Wouldn't be the first time I was the only one standing up pushing a scumhead.

[April Ludgate]

I am noting DeasVail's big vote. That vote felt heavier than the other votes, which could be a sign of scum taking action.

[VP Baltar]

Here's the thing, people don't like the case/reasoning I made. Big whoop, don't mean I'm not right. Wouldn't be the first time I was the only one standing up pushing a scumhead.

My energy the whole game. Anyway! No accounting for taste.

[April Ludgate]

VPB, I think Frogster is probably town.

[VP Baltar]

I need to finish some work, and then I'll try to do a full wagon analysis before yall finish me off

[VP Baltar]

VPB, I think Frogster is probably town.

Might be! I think his play this game is dramatically different from my town play with him and in basically all the meta provided. Maybe he is struggling with the speed, but he has no true aggression or gusto for this game. His posting looks like he's trying to look active rather than trying to find scum.

[Eyes without a face]

Serious question: Are we looking for scum or are we looking for things we don't like in each other's playstyles? because it seems to me everybody has been looking on the game from their own perspective and how the other should be playing not whether the other is making something that looks like it's scum driven.

Also everybody (in general and not just in this game) assume they are smart and everybody else is dumb. "scum will push this and not that" may only work if -say- someone is being tricky, but I don't think having a different opinion or changing one's opinion or some other shit that every player does regardless of their alignment qualifies as a reason to scum read someone.

@Deas: regarding 3702 what would you have done in that situation? Imagine that you were not being pushed at one point and then the tide changes and you are the leading wagon. Would you still sit back and relax or would you try to at least defend yourself? I think we both know the answer to that and that -again- is regardless of the color of your PM.

[Yeet]

Serious question: Are we looking for scum or are we looking for things we don't like in each other's playstyles? because it seems to me everybody has been looking on the game from their own perspective and how the other should be playing not whether the other is making something that looks like it's scum driven.

Also everybody (in general and not just in this game) assume they are smart and everybody else is dumb. "scum will push this and not that" may only work if -say- someone is being tricky, but I don't think having a different opinion or changing one's opinion or some other shit that every player does regardless of their alignment qualifies as a reason to scum read someone.

@Deas: regarding 3702 what would you have done in that situation? Imagine that you were not being pushed at one point and then the tide changes and you are the leading wagon. Would you still sit back and relax or would you try to at least defend yourself? I think we both know the answer to that and that -again- is regardless of the color of your PM.

This is a good post.

[DeasVail]

I am noting DeasVail's big vote. That vote felt heavier than the other votes, which could be a sign of scum taking action.

Big mood

I’m interested in what your hypothesis is regarding “scum taking action”.

[April Ludgate]

Serious question:

Are we looking for scum or are we looking for things we don't like in each other's playstyles?

because it seems to me everybody has been looking on the game from their own perspective and how the other should be playing not whether the other is making something that looks like it's scum driven.

Also everybody (in general and not just in this game) assume they are smart and everybody else is dumb. "scum will push this and not that" may only work if -say- someone is being tricky, but I don't think having a different opinion or changing one's opinion or some other shit that every player does regardless of their alignment qualifies as a reason to scum read someone.

@Deas: regarding 3702 what would you have done in that situation? Imagine that you were not being pushed at one point and then the tide changes and you are the leading wagon. Would you still sit back and relax or would you try to at least defend yourself? I think we both know the answer to that and that -again- is regardless of the color of your PM.

Exactly. People push townies for what they appear as faults in play based on their limited knowledge, scum push townies for their faults from their informed minority knowledge, and get to choose how to push in political reasons.

This is what Malcolm has been doing, and he also shade discredits.

I am one of the only ones pushing for actual scum reasons, but I get chopped because people don't like to look at what scum actually does, they want to look for surface level faults.

[DeasVail]

Serious question: Are we looking for scum or are we looking for things we don't like in each other's playstyles? because it seems to me everybody has been looking on the game from their own perspective and how the other should be playing not whether the other is making something that looks like it's scum driven.

Also everybody (in general and not just in this game) assume they are smart and everybody else is dumb. "scum will push this and not that" may only work if -say- someone is being tricky, but I don't think having a different opinion or changing one's opinion or some other shit that every player does regardless of their alignment qualifies as a reason to scum read someone.

@Deas: regarding 3702 what would you have done in that situation? Imagine that you were not being pushed at one point and then the tide changes and you are the leading wagon. Would you still sit back and relax or would you try to at least defend yourself? I think we both know the answer to that and that -again- is regardless of the color of your PM.

Eyes, I expect people to defend themselves. I have never indicated otherwise.

[DeasVail]

I don’t appreciate the categorisation of my thoughts as not looking for what scum would be doing.

[April Ludgate]

I am noting DeasVail's big vote. That vote felt heavier than the other votes, which could be a sign of scum taking action.

Big mood

I’m interested in what your hypothesis is regarding “scum taking action”.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=84028 in my scum guide, it's one of my first tips.

Scum do it a lot subconsciously because they have to effect the game.

If you are scum, that was you taking direct action.

If you are town, it's you saying how you really feel.

Over time, I'm able to piece these action moments in context with the entire game, and sometimes in the future they can look really damaging because it shows it had a direct effect on the game.

Your vote is close to a death sentence on VPB.

[April Ludgate]

tenebrousluminary
Cape90
MathBlade
Yeet

Nero Cain
Frogsterking
VP Baltar

Scorpious

fireisredsir

Enchant

Eyes without a face

DeasVail
Datisi
Save The Dragons

skitter30

MalcolmTucker

No order between tiers.
Scum is in the non greens. Might be 1 scum in my greens, cant see more than 1 tbh. Thing that makes me nervous about the greens is VPB, Nero, Cape triangle.

However, VPB feeling green energy, Nero's masking himself well if he's scum because I generally understand why theyre pushing where they are, but i dont necessarily agree.

Cape was gut and liked the way they responded to certain things, as said earlier.