Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[MathBlade]

ok yea i wasn't really that convinced of that being a slip, but you're right that VP's interpretation there is extremely generous to galron

Would you do VP or Galron then?

[fireisredsir]

meh ill go for either VP or malc, at this point I've talked myself in circles over which is more likely, i don't know anymore

[MalcolmTucker]

the extent to which the game feels stuck here the last few days is weird af and probably meaningful in some way but ill let the smart people figure out what that means

my instinct tho is that it means either scum is in the leading wagons and the rest of the team isn't positioned well enough or isn't active enough to push a counter/commit to a bus, or that the leading wagons are all town, and scum are apathetic about which one goes through. but on play i think the first option is the case

I think it's either mafia are content with the wagons and keen not to push anything new - or VP is mafia and they don't want to rock the boat too much on the off-chance people cave and go for an alternative wagon.

[MalcolmTucker]

VOTE: Fire

What was the reason for this switch out of interest?

[MalcolmTucker]

Why Enchant is so scummy this game is beyond me. Feels like he's just lolcatting scum? But I still kind of refuse to elim there like in the next few game days because fua was so towny, but I would like Enchant to play and help town more I guess

Was Fua townie? I'm pretty sure their reveal only came because they looked increasingly mafia. Only reason for trusting them so far has been the vig claim. Definitely interesting how all of the newer players (aside from April) have largely sat back this turn and let the rest of us fight among ourselves.

[MalcolmTucker]

Ok, anyhow, moving on...

I haven’t been keeping tabs on the case on you because I’ve been kind of tunneled and focused on a few other players to the point where I just forgot what I thought of you. You hadn’t posted in a while so other people were more prevalent.

Where is your head at currently with your scum reads? I have a hard time tracking who you actually want to lim.

Town:
Malcolm - Reasons I've already explained. I think that he's level-headed and approaching situations with nuance, and also after going back through ISOs I agree that the case on Datisi.
Datisi - I've gone through ISOs and liked his posting a lot. I think it's a solid townie mindset and I don't see what other people see in him.
Nero - I know how Nero plays. This is probably town Nero. Handled GeneralWu well and I think he's right with that read.
Frogster - Weirdly misguided townie who seems way too overeager to catch a scum early. Could be right, but for the wrong reasons. Easy townie on my end and I can't see any associatives.
Skitter30 - I also think she is misguided town. I disagree with a chunk of her townreads and basically all of her scumreads except for maybe Eyes. I especially don't see a case on Nero at all.
STD - Has brought new ideas to the table and is putting in some effort to be visible and play the game. More of a townlean than full town, but still.

Townlean:
VP Baltar - I have issues with your list, but I think your questioning lines are genuine and you are attempting to sort people.
Cape90 - Same.

Null/Not enough info:
Eyes - Barely anything in their ISO and not enough to read them off of.
Tenebro - There have been a few posts I've really liked and a few I've really hated. I've cooled off on them though and I'm not going to revote them unless something changes down the line.
HEM - I can see his play coming from scum or just apathetic town. I think he's just snappy and confrontational in general and I don't see a case on him.
Ari - Not gonna talk about this slot right now, but I can see both cases.
Nordom - Probably just an insensitive moron. No idea what to make of him and I want to see how his replacement handles things.
Scorpious - He looks scummy, but that's true of literally every game he plays. It's not worth pursuing for now and I doubt there's any valuable info we can get out of it even if he does flip scum.

Scummy:
DeasVail - This is the slot I'm least sure on. I think depending on Nordom's alignment it could MAYBE go either way, but for right now I don't see how they can TR HEM with little explanation while SRing Nordom for his snappy dismissiveness. It feels a little bit inconsistent to me and like they're going with the easy route.
Fireisred - It's been pointed out that they're mostly playing the mediator and I'm inclined to agree. They've kind of been piling on to individual wagons and their three votes have just been whatever's easiest to pick out at the time. I think their callout of Tenebro was okay but I also want to see who they actually scumread throughout today.
Yeet - One of the more prominent pushers of the Datisi wagon. I think that Malcolm pointing out their inconsistency on the case on Datisi was a good thing, and going through their posts it kind of looks like they're pushing Datisi's posts into a scum mindset in a square peg round hole kind of deal. They briefly switched to skitter for not SRing Datisi like they did but switched back to him right after, so I don't really think they're actually taking new information into account.


Scum:
GeneralWu - Their ISO is a huge ball of nothing, they've got like 1-2 actual comments on the game compared to the game that Fire linked earlier where they got right down to business, and they ghosted the thread shortly after being called out by Nero and haven't posted in almost a day. My vote is staying here.

Is that good enough for you?

This readslist is really boring. I'm not a fan.

VOTE: Fua

Frogsterking, I am ready to shake this tree with you.

What do people think of fua/if there is anything particular townie about them I would be interested. The predominant concern I have with this slot is that I see a very bland ISO which to me signals scum going through the motions.

Yeah, but the difference is that I’m not jumping on whatever the most popular wagon is just because it was in style to do so. I don’t see how SRing Ari, Deas. and Fire are lukewarm takes at all considering others look at them as consensus town and I’m interested in what your definition of lukewarm actually is. Who are your scumreads besides me? At the moment it just feels like OMGUS and nothing else. Even Skitter is voting me because my takes are the opposite of hers, so these are some strange double standards.

This was a really weird reaction to my push

Im glad to see fua is getting more votes. I don’t understand the context behind this yet but I will take a closer look when I have time.

Im glad to see fua is getting more votes. I don’t understand the context behind this yet but I will take a closer look when I have time.

Why would you be glad to see someone getting more votes without knowing the context?

Because fua is currently my top scumspect. It’s pretty simple…

One problem I have with fua is that I would classify their reactions are very “reactionary” or containing “naked aggression” or “subtly threatening”. I will quote some examples that I have seen from their interactions in me. I believe these to be scum traits when pushed.

VOTE: skitter That is an unfortunate development.

What is unfortunate?

That fua was the vig (likely) and not scum.

Actually maybe that’s not quite accurate. In general I am more of a townhunter and I don’t get scumpings that often. So it’s more of people going from null to town for me rather than scum to town (like Datisi skitter and fua are the 3 I can think of that went scum to town for me).

so, like, in total? 6.5/10, my gamestate reads aren't always great, but i would not mind a wagon here

what does a 6.5/10 mean?

official datisi rating of the scorpious wagon

btw can we kill enchant pls he's like blatantly scum who's coasting on a bullshit vig claim

I could see it but Enchant is just kind of a troll as either alignment iirc. It’s not enough for me to back out on fua atm. Fua was a bit too townie/vig-like for me I think.

Why Enchant is so scummy this game is beyond me. Feels like he's just lolcatting scum? But I still kind of refuse to elim there like in the next few game days because fua was so towny, but I would like Enchant to play and help town more I guess

Yeet's idea in retrospect they perceived Fua as townie is a complete retcon of how they played things on day one, for what it's worth. They only began to believe Fua might be townie after the initial claim was made, but you wouldn't really get back judging from some of these more recent above posts.

[MalcolmTucker]

*wouldn't really get that

[MalcolmTucker]

VOTE: Cape90 Let’s start with this greedy hammer vote. Sure it could be town miscounting but scum could totally use that as an excuse. I am unhappy that instead of running Wu up, we ended up straight hammering him, and I have seen scum just go for the kill because wifom. Why Cape is getting zero scrutiny is shocking to me.Plus they are in a hood with VP and Nero and skitter who I all believe to be stronger town than Cape atm.

Cape your hammer is not NAI because there is obvious scum motivation to do it.

re: the hood - i have at least a light town read on everyone, is it possible it's pure? i'll reassess and see if i change my mind.

Yeah maybe, although cape is a ??? For me rn

UNVOTE: Cape90 Cape and Baltar is probably TvT.

I think Cape’s reaction today has been pretty annoying but townie. And I independently TR’d VP, also his reactions are what I’d expect as well. And we also vibe on a lot of sentiments but at the end of the road we look for different things as specific alignment tells. I don’t think I explained that very well but that roughly encapsulates where I am on him. There’s very little reason for me to think Baltar is scum, at least.

Fua v skitter
Cape v Baltar
Nero

All these slot seem like town to me. I would like to push outside of these 5 today.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

I don’t townread this slot and honestly I’m sort of running out of places I want to vote.

Yeet's progression on Cape is also strange. Cape came under some initial pressure for their hammer vote but this was never really sustained. I personally think they're town but I'm not sure there's any reason for players who found the hammer vote incredibly scummy to be convinced with a couple of good posts from a player who's notably quite strong. It feels telegraphed to an extent, as if they realised Cape would be a hard target to nail.

It reminds me a bit of the attempted Datisi wagon on D1 since Yeet was also on that - player gets pressure but when certain slots are involved it just never really goes anywhere and fizzles out, as if mafia decide they're not that keen on it after all because it's not beneficial for them in the long-term and exposes them too much.

[Enchant]

Let's yeet yeet.

[MalcolmTucker]

It'd be a late wagon but I'd narrowly prefer it to VP at this point I think. I'd at least be interested to see who gets onboard with it since that could be telling due to the game stalling.

What are your reads out of interest, Enchant? What do you make of Yeet's view you're playing like you're mafia at the moment, and should we see your willingness to jump on a potential Yeet bandwagon as suspicious or genuine good town play?

[Enchant]

It'd be a late wagon but I'd narrowly prefer it to VP at this point I think. I'd at least be interested to see who gets onboard with it since that could be telling due to the game stalling.

What are your reads out of interest, Enchant? What do you make of Yeet's view you're playing like you're mafia at the moment, and should we see your willingness to jump on a potential Yeet bandwagon as suspicious or genuine good town play?

Didn't understand question.

[MalcolmTucker]

It'd be a late wagon but I'd narrowly prefer it to VP at this point I think. I'd at least be interested to see who gets onboard with it since that could be telling due to the game stalling.

What are your reads out of interest, Enchant? What do you make of Yeet's view you're playing like you're mafia at the moment, and should we see your willingness to jump on a potential Yeet bandwagon as suspicious or genuine good town play?

Didn't understand question.

Yeet thinks your play is quite mafia. Should we see your backing of a wagon on them as good, genuine town play here? What makes you keen on it?

[Enchant]

My play is town, idk what you about. What sense to read game and work, if i die soon.

Why you should't see my play as town? Like, give atleast two valid reasons.

Because i think it's useless bunnyhopping and imitating of work.

[MalcolmTucker]

Your play has been null to me since you haven't said much of note, but I'm willing to still believe the vig claim.

My point is - what makes you back my potential wagon for Yeet?

[Enchant]

Why Enchant is so scummy this game is beyond me. Feels like he's just lolcatting scum? But I still kind of refuse to elim there like in the next few game days because fua was so towny, but I would like Enchant to play and help town more I guess

Here's kind of where I'm at:

Math
Galron Nero enchant - TRs
Baltar cape deasvail - TLs
tenebro eyes Titus April - north of null
Scorpious frog fire std - null I guess?
Malcolm - South of null

Claims is a trash. I more actually believe people who call me mafia than people who call me mafia but change mind because i am vig, because first looks sort of genuine.

[Yeet]

One of the reasons I think Baltar is town - keep in mind he is a journalist and everything he writes comes off as polished at least and depending on your POV meant to be persuasive. I really don’t get the sense that he is the kind of player that plays some suboptimal game for the sake of wifom. Those are the things he looks for in scum as town. He has the natural ability to pocket specific players if he really wants to, so I don’t know why as scum he has put zero effort into this. If VP looks like he’s playing a very wifomy agenda, then in my book he’s probably just town.

[Yeet]

EBWOP (ie, fuck you autocorrect)

VP what would you be doing differently if you were scum this game?

Not

pissing

so many people off and drawing so much attention to myself. I probably would have played nice with Nero earlier and wouldn't have opened the day in a very aggressive manner. I'd be calling town players who are on the wrong track smart and be playing with my long term survivability in mind.

This read is sort of related to what he said here. I agree that this is more what his agenda would look like as scum which is why I asked him in the first place.

[Yeet]

Why Enchant is so scummy this game is beyond me. Feels like he's just lolcatting scum? But I still kind of refuse to elim there like in the next few game days because fua was so towny, but I would like Enchant to play and help town more I guess

Here's kind of where I'm at:

Math
Galron Nero enchant - TRs
Baltar cape deasvail - TLs
tenebro eyes Titus April - north of null
Scorpious frog fire std - null I guess?
Malcolm - South of null

Claims is a trash. I more actually believe people who call me mafia than people who call me mafia but change mind because i am vig, because first looks sort of genuine.

fua was towny for me. You not trying at all and lolcatting all game is scum!indicative but it really doesn’t change the fact that you came from a town slot. I’m not sure why this isn’t looking genuine for you.

Also, please don’t shoot me tonight, lol.

[Yeet]

Malcolm is basically attacking me again for changing reads frequently, which as he himself said, is what townies should do. I legitimately don’t think I can change reads this quickly and jumpily as scum because I wouldn’t evaluate new information in a genuine way.

[Yeet]

It'd be a late wagon but I'd narrowly prefer it to VP at this point I think. I'd at least be interested to see who gets onboard with it since that could be telling due to the game stalling.

What are your reads out of interest, Enchant? What do you make of Yeet's view you're playing like you're mafia at the moment, and should we see your willingness to jump on a potential Yeet bandwagon as suspicious or genuine good town play?

Didn't understand question.

Yeet thinks your play is quite mafia. Should we see your backing of a wagon on them as good, genuine town play here? What makes you keen on it?

Idk this hunch is obviously confbiased but I’m scared Malcolm is firing/pocketing Enchant up to convince him to vig me tonight or something.

[Yeet]

Another thing that I don’t like about Malcolm’s posting is a lot of it is based on objectiveness. He frequently gets salty about how other people who are doing “similar or worse” things are not getting as much pressure as others (namely himself). I can point to examples after work if needed.

The issue I gave with this mindset is that I feel like he is expecting people to play objectively good townplay and people who don’t match up to this standard are scum. I mean it’s not impossible that it could be a playstyle difference but his mindset still feels like he’s scum caught for the “wrong reasons”.

[MalcolmTucker]

Malcolm is basically attacking me again for changing reads frequently, which as he himself said, is what townies should do. I legitimately don’t think I can change reads this quickly and jumpily as scum because I wouldn’t evaluate new information in a genuine way.

My problem isn't re you switching reads, it's that you don't really ever seem to properly push a lot of your reads. Your sudden flip re Cape after you made some very conclusive statements about him just feels far too convenient. I think it's natural to gain or lose interest in some reads but you don't even seem to push the reads you do have all that consistently either to be honest, which again goes against your very early gameplay.

[MalcolmTucker]

Why Enchant is so scummy this game is beyond me. Feels like he's just lolcatting scum? But I still kind of refuse to elim there like in the next few game days because fua was so towny, but I would like Enchant to play and help town more I guess

Here's kind of where I'm at:

Math
Galron Nero enchant - TRs
Baltar cape deasvail - TLs
tenebro eyes Titus April - north of null
Scorpious frog fire std - null I guess?
Malcolm - South of null

Claims is a trash. I more actually believe people who call me mafia than people who call me mafia but change mind because i am vig, because first looks sort of genuine.

fua was towny for me.

You not trying at all and lolcatting all game is scum!indicative but it really doesn’t change the fact that you came from a town slot. I’m not sure why this isn’t looking genuine for you.

Also, please don’t shoot me tonight, lol.

Fua was not townie for you until they claimed. That is a major difference here - you can't claim you TR'd someone only after they claimed a major role when you were reading them as mafia beforehand. Fua was literally one of your main mafia suspects.

[MalcolmTucker]

Another thing that I don’t like about Malcolm’s posting is a lot of it is based on objectiveness. He frequently gets salty about how other people who are doing “similar or worse” things are not getting as much pressure as others (namely himself). I can point to examples after work if needed.

The issue I gave with this mindset is that I feel like he is expecting people to play objectively good townplay and people who don’t match up to this standard are scum. I mean it’s not impossible that it could be a playstyle difference but his mindset still feels like he’s scum caught for the “wrong reasons”.

Why is trying to play objectively a bad way to approach the game? I'd rather that than just aimlessly going for whatever player catches your eye. Obviously there's always going to be an element of subjectivity to reads but I still expect people to then find a way to back up those reads.

[MalcolmTucker]

Why Enchant is so scummy this game is beyond me. Feels like he's just lolcatting scum? But I still kind of refuse to elim there like in the next few game days because fua was so towny, but I would like Enchant to play and help town more I guess

Here's kind of where I'm at:

Math
Galron Nero enchant - TRs
Baltar cape deasvail - TLs
tenebro eyes Titus April - north of null
Scorpious frog fire std - null I guess?
Malcolm - South of null

Claims is a trash. I more actually believe people who call me mafia than people who call me mafia but change mind because i am vig, because first looks sort of genuine.

fua was towny for me.

You not trying at all and lolcatting all game is scum!indicative but it really doesn’t change the fact that you came from a town slot. I’m not sure why this isn’t looking genuine for you.

Also, please don’t shoot me tonight, lol.

Fua was not townie for you until they claimed. That is a major difference here - you can't claim you TR'd someone only after they claimed a major role when you were reading them as mafia beforehand. Fua was literally one of your main mafia suspects.

Bringing this over to new page since it's an important detail. Again Yeet did not TR Fua until Fua claimed. Indeed Yeet was one of the posters who essentially drew out that claim with their suspicions piled onto Fua. I don't think their suspicion was wrong or particularly bad for what it's worth, because Fua did not look great, but they did not TR them early on. In fact, if anything it's weirder Yeet accepted Fua's claim at face value when others doubted it but now they appear to be backpedalling on this. Initial reaction could have been surprised mafia not wanting to rile up a PR.