Newbie 2090 (Game Over)

[TTTT]

I will be VLA from 3/19-3/24
no internet access at all
I'll be on a boat in the Caribbean so don't feel sorry for me!

[TTTT]

I'm gonna miss Luke
I felt like I could do something that looked weird
and Luke would then take the time to explain it to you guys
now I'm going to have to stop being lazy

Also raise a pint to Luke for doing what a good VT player should do:
1) Look town.
2) Bait the nightkill

well done

[furtiveglance]

Lukewarm has died. I will replace Lukewarm with Mr Turtle in my townbloc, as my other townreads (Lukewarm and BigTerp for instance) seem to townread them, and I will stick with my day 1 read on Turtle. They must be in prod range though, I'd like more participation please.

So that means BigTerp, TTTT and Mr Turtle are in my townbloc.

Which leaves a scumpool of Somnus, PPP and GoldfishFromtheMoon.

If Somnus is town, then nothing makes sense anymore. I think Somnus has to be mafia.

VOTE: Somnus

[BigTerp]

Lukewarm has died. I will replace Lukewarm with Mr Turtle in my townbloc, as my other townreads (Lukewarm and BigTerp for instance) seem to townread them, and I will stick with my day 1 read on Turtle. They must be in prod range though, I'd like more participation please.

So that means BigTerp, TTTT and Mr Turtle are in my townbloc.

Which leaves a scumpool of Somnus, PPP and GoldfishFromtheMoon.

If Somnus is town, then nothing makes sense anymore. I think Somnus has to be mafia.

VOTE: Somnus

Interesting. You've had your vote here before, and had Somnus as a scummy read most of the game. The ONLY evidence you've presented was this post here https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13288287 Yet you're so sure that Somnus is scum that if they flip town "then nothing makes sense anymore." I'd like to hear more on your case for Somnus.

[furtiveglance]

Case on Somnus: I didn't like their initial readslist in 331, in which they had 4 of us in the null range, and I strongly disagreed with their scumread on BigTerp. They didn't really comment much on the day 1 vote apart from to defend themself, and never voted for BigTerp, instead voting for PPP as a 'prod vote' and never moving it. Lukewarm had Somnus as their number one scumread in 316, then got nightkilled. I'm just not seeing anything that I would see from town players in Somnus - pushing your scumreads being the main thing. For these reasons I think Somnus should be the vote today. I can't really see a PPP/GoldfishfromtheMoon scumteam.

[PlmPestPlaY]

To Pimpest and whoever else, I offer you these questions:

1.) Who would have benefited the most from Marci being eliminated as quickly as possible?
2.) Who is the one person who never made a case against her, voted for her, or encouraged anyone else to replace an unvote on Marci with a vote?
3.) Who is the only other person who realistically could have been eliminated Day 1?
4.) Who are the players who didn't seem to care whether Marci or Somnus went through and didn't seem to make much of a case against either?

The answers to 1-3 may disappoint you.

All I want from this game is for either Somnus or GoldfishFromTheMoon to not be mafia. I want my expectations subverted damn it!

Then again, maybe the answers won't disappoint you.

It's not an accusation against any one person in particular. I need to hear from everyone.

It's exacerbated by my position, but this is the most confusing series of posts I've read all game. You say "The answers to 1-3 may disappoint you." and "Then again, maybe the answers won't disappoint you.".
This to me implies you have a player or 2 in mind. You also say "It's not an accusation against any one person in particular." So are the questions not accusatory then? Are they neutral? Is the answer multiple people? Is the answer to the questions you? Are they vindicative in that case? I don't even know if I'm supposed to answer all questions individually or find an answer that fits them all. Also questions 2 and 3 state that only 1 player is the answer, so surely the questions were rhetorical and you had someone in mind, else why limit it to 1 person? Is the answer to #3 me or you? If the answer is me and the question is accusatory, then are you telling me I won't be dissapointed, because I am one of the mafia? Because that is nonsensical, since mafia is informed, and my wish for the game would therefore be a lie. Is the answer to #1 me or you?

Am I a null read? It is impossible to tell from Somnus's post, because he takes no stance. He just sows doubt. That frankly gives me the heebie-jeebies.

Really found myself agreeing with Lukewarm for a few seconds there.

[PlmPestPlaY]

not sure why it is very very unlikely from anybody else's POV
what are you getting at?
I do find it funny that PPP thinks he can get me elim'd today

Because it would mean you delayed Day 1 as long as possible, risking a wagon continuing to grow on me, whether you joined in said-wagon or not. If you and I were partners, it's a bold move, Cotton.

That's a good argument. Mafia don't play perfectly though. Also TTTT kinda disagrees with it. Not sure why TTTT thinks I'm trying to get him elim'd.

[BigTerp]

Case on Somnus: I didn't like their initial readslist in 331, in which they had 4 of us in the null range, and I strongly disagreed with their scumread on BigTerp. They didn't really comment much on the day 1 vote apart from to defend themself, and never voted for BigTerp, instead voting for PPP as a 'prod vote' and never moving it. Lukewarm had Somnus as their number one scumread in 316, then got nightkilled. I'm just not seeing anything that I would see from town players in Somnus - pushing your scumreads being the main thing. For these reasons I think Somnus should be the vote today. I can't really see a PPP/GoldfishfromtheMoon scumteam.

Thanks.

[BigTerp]

I'm really early.

Lukewarm dying is predictable and kinda fitting.

I don't think scum comes out first thing day 2 and says something like this. Lukewarm was one of my biggest town reads day 1, at least I was reading that one right.

I disagree
it's not uncommon for scum to comment on the nightkill with something like "yeah we all saw that coming amirite guys?"

Missed this. But noted.

[furtiveglance]

I think PPP might just have some very weird turns of phrase. I can't really see them paired with Somnus. The gamesolve I have right now is Somnus/Gold.

[BigTerp]

I'm going to go through ISO's in the evening. The problem is going to be that virtually everyone wanted Marci dead.

Agreed it's going to be tough trying to read much of anyone's intent with Marci. Other than TTTT, I don't remember anyone really against eliminating them. And TTTT's reasoning wasn't even really that they didn't want them eliminated rather they wanted to allow some time for Goldfish to share some thoughts after they replaced in.

Actually, I'm going to go back on what I said here. This seems like a nice setup for Somnus to be able to come back later and say a whole lot about nothing. They provided a decent reads list here https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13286336 and some more player specific thoughts here https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13289758 , but other than that they seemed to have spent the majority of the game either defending themselves or just being active enough to fly under the radar. Either I'm really missing something here and having a terrible read, but I'm not gettting much substance from Somnus as I go back through their ISO.

[BigTerp]

I think PPP might just have some very weird turns of phrase. I can't really see them paired with Somnus. The gamesolve I have right now is Somnus/Gold.

I have zero read on Goldfish currently. Would like to hear more from them as well as Mr. Turtle who has a whole 17 posts 10 IRL days into this game. That seem absurdly low. But even then it feels like it has much more meaningful content that Somuns' 86 posts as I mentioned in my last post.

Mr. Turtle - What's with the such low post count?

[PlmPestPlaY]

Nitpick:

Hell, even if you're mafia, you're at least more engaged in things now than you were early on.

Lukewarm

: Is giving a lot of analysis which I love. Even if Lukewarm is mafia, they are greatly helping town with their gamesolving, and it doesn't seem fake/unsubstantiated/badly-motivated to me.

And in your hypothetical, if Lukewarm is mafia, then their gamesolving would not benefit town, as it would be scum-motivated.

[TTTT]

PPP looking good here

[TTTT]

I have zero read on Goldfish currently.

I have a couple reasons to scumread Goldie, neither of which are really her fault:
the double replace outs from newbies in that slot with no discussion beforehand about struggling to keep up with the game
and
Alianna's entrance is how newbie scum often enter games
this read is subject to change based on Goldie's play, but I can't ignore how +scum those two things are

[TTTT]

I'll reread the game tonight
phone posting at work right now

[TTTT]

I think PPP might just have some very weird turns of phrase. I can't really see them paired with Somnus. The gamesolve I have right now is Somnus/Gold.

I could see this

[TTTT]

Mr. Turtle - What's with the such low post count?

I'll add to this and say that sporadic large posts don't help us sort you
we really need more regular interactions

[PlmPestPlaY]

Will just say this though.

Mr Turtle could you expand on why you scum-read furtiveglance after #1 scum-reading marcistar, who you said made the most well thought out case against furtiveglance?

The furtiveglance read and the marcistar read are largely independent. I thought marcistar's post on furtiveglance was the townies thing she had done up to that point and I agreed with some of the reasonings in the post. I don't see the need to do associative reads before we have a concrete alignment flip. With that being said, I'd like to revisit my scum and town leans (including furtiveglance) soon.

Are those reads independant though? If furtiveglance and marcistar are both mafia, that would mean marcistar made "the most well thought-out case in the game" against the other mafia player. Do you think that is something marcistar would do?

When I say independent, I mean that I read them independently. Yes, if marcistar flips mafia, I think that makes furtiveglance look much better. I don't think marcistar makes her first case on her scum buddy.

But

I see no reason for me to find furtiveglance scummy and then dismissing it because marci cased them.

Ahh, why not? Why would dismissing furtiveglance be a bad move? I think I would agree with you, had you not explicitly made marcistar your #1. It makes me think your reads-list is made up.
For your scum-lean of me you referenced your previous explanation for null-leaning me. Did you scum-lean me because more time had passed and nothing had changed?

[BigTerp]

PPP looking good here

I'm liking PPP more and more as time goes on. They seem to be really trying to figure things out and are not laser focused on pushing for any certain individual.

[BigTerp]

I have zero read on Goldfish currently.

I have a couple reasons to scumread Goldie, neither of which are really her fault:
the double replace outs from newbies in that slot with no discussion beforehand about struggling to keep up with the game
and

Alianna's entrance is how newbie scum often enter games

this read is subject to change based on Goldie's play, but I can't ignore how +scum those two things are

And how do newbie scum typically enter games, in your experience?

[TTTT]

Like this.

[TTTT]

before anyone asks
Loopdan is one of my alt account
or more accurately, TTTT is a Loopdan alt

[Mr Turtle]

I think PPP might just have some very weird turns of phrase. I can't really see them paired with Somnus. The gamesolve I have right now is Somnus/Gold.

I have zero read on Goldfish currently. Would like to hear more from them as well as Mr. Turtle who has a whole 17 posts 10 IRL days into this game. That seem absurdly low. But even then it feels like it has much more meaningful content that Somuns' 86 posts as I mentioned in my last post.

Mr. Turtle - What's with the such low post count?

I've been a bit busy recently, but this is pretty normal for me in my opinion.

Will just say this though.

Mr Turtle could you expand on why you scum-read furtiveglance after #1 scum-reading marcistar, who you said made the most well thought out case against furtiveglance?

The furtiveglance read and the marcistar read are largely independent. I thought marcistar's post on furtiveglance was the townies thing she had done up to that point and I agreed with some of the reasonings in the post. I don't see the need to do associative reads before we have a concrete alignment flip. With that being said, I'd like to revisit my scum and town leans (including furtiveglance) soon.

Are those reads independant though? If furtiveglance and marcistar are both mafia, that would mean marcistar made "the most well thought-out case in the game" against the other mafia player. Do you think that is something marcistar would do?

When I say independent, I mean that I read them independently. Yes, if marcistar flips mafia, I think that makes furtiveglance look much better. I don't think marcistar makes her first case on her scum buddy.

But

I see no reason for me to find furtiveglance scummy and then dismissing it because marci cased them.

Ahh, why not? Why would dismissing furtiveglance be a bad move? I think I would agree with you, had you not explicitly made marcistar your #1. It makes me think your reads-list is made up.
For your scum-lean of me you referenced your previous explanation for null-leaning me. Did you scum-lean me because more time had passed and nothing had changed?

It wouldn't be a bad move, but I made my reads independently from one another. Yes, if marcistar flipped scum that would've cleared furtiveglance. But why did I need to preemptively clear furtiveglance for a non-existent flip? I get you think it's weird that I scum read marcistar and said "Wow, that's a good case", but marcistar helped me see something that I hadn't seen before. #1 scum read doesn't mean 100% lock scum, even top scum reads do towny things. What makes marcistar as my #1 scum read different than marcistar as my #2 scum read? Following your logic, if you scum read someone you shouldn't agree with their reads. Why does this only apply to the top scum read?

Where did I reference my previous explanation for null-leaning you (I'm genuinely not quite sure what you mean)? Could you like a post?

[Frozen Angel]