Newbie 2090 (Game Over)

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

TTTT If Mr Turtle is scum who do you think is most likely to be his partner?

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Pls don't day me lol

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Pls don't day me lol

Say*

[TTTT]

for that I need to read ISOs specifically for Turtle mentions
but no time for that tonight

[TTTT]

sorry for all the posts tonight
I prefer a post for each idea/thought/reaction
rather than giant mega posts
makes it easier to follow and respond to

[furtiveglance]

Turtle is town for me. Do not just avoid my questions on Somnus and skirt around it, explain why you aren't voting them TTTT.

[TTTT]

because I have low confidence in my read on Somnus
I'd rather elim Turtle or Goldie

[furtiveglance]

The plot thickens

[furtiveglance]

I won't stand for a push on an absent player. As for Goldfish, I can see them with Somnus but Somnus fits in a lot of pairings for me.

[TTTT]

hey aren't you the guy who said it's never who you most suspect?
sounds like you should be voting Turtle with me

[TTTT]

I won't stand for a push on an absent player.

absent?
he posted six hours ago

[furtiveglance]

Ok, well Lukewarm townread Turtle and so do I. You should get on board with the Somnus vote, it might help your standing in future

[TTTT]

I'm not worried about my "standing"
I'm worried about flipping red players

[TTTT]

Ok, well Lukewarm townread Turtle

he also ended the day talking about how you were scumslipping

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I won't stand for a push on an absent player. As for Goldfish, I can see them with Somnus but Somnus fits in a lot of pairings for me.

nobody is suggesting Turtle gets voted out before he gets a chance to defend himself and make contributions.

[furtiveglance]

Ok, well Lukewarm townread Turtle

he also ended the day talking about how you were scumslipping

I was 'informed' that it wasn't the most obvious scumteam imaginable. I remember. If you want to accuse me just do it

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Ok, well Lukewarm townread Turtle

he also ended the day talking about how you were scumslipping

^

isn't it interesting how both the dead players, (who we know are town), scum read furtive?

my current thoughts on the scum team are turtle/furtiveglance. But I think furtive/PPP is also a possibility, furtive was one of the first to towered PPP and keeps defending PPP's strangeness.

Either way

FOS: Furtiveglance

[furtiveglance]

Ok, well Lukewarm townread Turtle

he also ended the day talking about how you were scumslipping

^

isn't it interesting how both the dead players, (who we know are town), scum read furtive?

my current thoughts on the scum team are turtle/furtiveglance. But I think furtive/PPP is also a possibility, furtive was one of the first to towered PPP and keeps defending PPP's strangeness.

Either way

FOS: Furtiveglance

Factually incorrect I'm afraid. Lukewarm said I was '+town' in 289, then had me in the null range in 318. Their biggest scumread was Somnus. I am keeping that torch burning. Marcistar scumread me yes. I deconstructed their scumcase on me (169) in 209.
PPP is still in my scumpool but not my preferred vote at the moment. I really think Somnus should be the vote today.

Also, if you think it's me you can vote me. Don't just say 'FOS' without fully committing in case I flip town.

[furtiveglance]

TTTT If Mr Turtle is scum who do you think is most likely to be his partner?

TTTT has it occured to you that Golfish sheeped your Turtle read out of nowhere and is attempting to buddy/pocket you?

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

TTTT If Mr Turtle is scum who do you think is most likely to be his partner?

TTTT has it occured to you that Golfish sheeped your Turtle read out of nowhere and is attempting to buddy/pocket you?

I'm not attempting to buddy anyone,
I just agree with some of TTTT's recent posts.

[furtiveglance]

That's E-1

AHH sorry I didn't say

you have some explaining to do

so here is my explaining (and I get this sounds bad)

My reads list was basically identical to BigTerps so I just said that I agreed with most of it.

here is what I have on the players I didn't mention,

Furtive glance: I'm pretty sure he's town but I don't trust myself because I visualise him as Watson from the BBC Sherlock TV show because of the profile pic, which biases me toward thinking he is town.

BigTerp: I agree with most of their reads and they liked my marci logic from earlier, so I think we seem to be having a similar thought process and they're town

TTTT: Initially I was kinda suspicious of you but your reaction to my most recent stuff honestly seems town

Mr turtle: I like most of their posts and I think they seem town

Lukewarm : Haven't got around to reading ISO yet but what I've seen seems good.

Goldfish these are your reads a few days ago. You had both me and Turtle as townleans. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are town, so help me understand. Have you been beguiled by TTTT's charm and decided to follow them blindly? Were you really won over by marcistar's scumcase on me? Is it that Turtle's less frequent posting makes you suspicious of them? More explanation is needed for this bizarre U-turn please.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Ok, well Lukewarm townread Turtle

he also ended the day talking about how you were scumslipping

^

isn't it interesting how both the dead players, (who we know are town), scum read furtive?

my current thoughts on the scum team are turtle/furtiveglance. But I think furtive/PPP is also a possibility, furtive was one of the first to towered PPP and keeps defending PPP's strangeness.

Either way

FOS: Furtiveglance

Factually incorrect I'm afraid. Lukewarm said I was '+town' in 289, then had me in the null range in 318. Their biggest scumread was Somnus. I am keeping that torch burning. Marcistar scumread me yes. I deconstructed their scumcase on me (169) in 209.
PPP is still in my scumpool but not my preferred vote at the moment. I really think Somnus should be the vote today.

Also, if you think it's me you can vote me. Don't just say 'FOS' without fully committing in case I flip town.

I only Fos-ed because I'm not 100% confident
Last time I voted someone (and I wasn't 100% sure) they turned out to be town and I don't want a repeat of that.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

That's E-1

AHH sorry I didn't say

you have some explaining to do

so here is my explaining (and I get this sounds bad)

My reads list was basically identical to BigTerps so I just said that I agreed with most of it.

here is what I have on the players I didn't mention,

Furtive glance: I'm pretty sure he's town but I don't trust myself because I visualise him as Watson from the BBC Sherlock TV show because of the profile pic, which biases me toward thinking he is town.

BigTerp: I agree with most of their reads and they liked my marci logic from earlier, so I think we seem to be having a similar thought process and they're town

TTTT: Initially I was kinda suspicious of you but your reaction to my most recent stuff honestly seems town

Mr turtle: I like most of their posts and I think they seem town

Lukewarm : Haven't got around to reading ISO yet but what I've seen seems good.

Goldfish these are your reads a few days ago. You had both me and Turtle as townleans. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are town, so help me understand. Have you been beguiled by TTTT's charm and decided to follow them blindly? Were you really won over by marcistar's scumcase on me? Is it that Turtle's less frequent posting makes you suspicious of them? More explanation is needed for this bizarre U-turn please.

I pretty much town leaned you and Turtle because everyone else was and I was completely unsure what to think.

Turtles less frequent posting is suspicious yes, but that's not the only reason I'm going off.

The U turn is mostly because now it's day 2 and we've had two flips which changes things because I now have some concrete information to go off.

Also because I've now been in the game for a while and I'm finding it easier to follow now that I can watch stuff happen in real time and I'm not hurriedly reading through old stuff.

As I said, at the time I really wasn't confident in any of my reads, I only posted because people kept asking for them.

[Somnus]

I'd be ok with a furtive wagon today, but if no one else is interested in that, I won't pursue it. I made my stance pretty clear in my response to his 2nd reads-list in Day 1 and how the intent didn't match the content. If we're appealing to the dead (which is only useful to some extent, since they were uninformed as well), Marci had furtive as her biggest scumread and he declared intent to hammer her three different times. Despite the really outdated posts that furtive is linking from luke, by the end of Day 1, luke didn't seem very confident in furtive being town. Despite all of the people who have scum-read furtive at one point or another, I don't believe he has had a single vote on him in this game.

I think the flip, green or red, would help narrow down a lot of partners, but as I said on Day 1, vote as you see accordingly.

[PlmPestPlaY]

Hi. I'm new here. Does anyone play on epicmafia.org? I don't trust the website because you can only login with 3rd party accounts.

Well, nvm. That is a silly reason not to trust it. Only took a couple of seconds of research to find that out. Can't delete posts right?

I don't like this entrance either
it reads to me like someone who feels the need to write something but isn't sure what to say about the game so far

You are right.

this Turtle post comes after an absence of pages and pages with nothing from him
and it's a long post about something that nobody in the game at the time cares about
totally irrelevant to the E-1 on marci or anything else happening

Spoiler:

I've decided to ISO Lukewarm to see if I was able to move them out of my null range.

Regarding marcistar

: During the first twenty four hours of the game, Lukewarm pretty much waits for her to show up (11, 77 & 157) with the reasoning that she is "easiest to read in the very start of the game, before she has found her footing". What I don't like about this is that they barely do anything and it feels as though they are hiding behind said reasoning to not do anything. Having someone to meta read at the beginning of the game makes it easier to "get into" the game so to speak, but it's also an easy way for scum to look busy. Then Luke has a bit of a back and forth of friendly banter with marcistar (160 & 164) and paired with their hyper-focus regarding their interactions with her (162 & 282), I deem them unlikely to be mafia partners. Note that when 164 was posted, 7 out of 10 posts in Luke's ISO had explicitly mentioned, quoted or been about marcistar. Later, Luke starts defending marcistar based on meta reads (286 & 299), claiming that most of her lack of vote and joke scumfession were NAI. In 294 they post their first concrete read on marcistar as "null scum". To me, this progression seems a bit messy, which I rate as being more likely towny than not. In 313, Luke voices his distaste with the E-1 vote, something which I also see as towny. They then make a non-read on marci by saying that they "want to hold off comitting to a read on her" and place them in their null range (317 & 318). Furthermore, Luke cements marcistar's null position by defending their retracted vote and subtly defending her (347, 348 & 352). I like Luke trying to slow the thread down on the marcistar wagon, it doesn't strike me as benefiting the mafia. 396, 399 & 400 are used to defend marci once again based on their scum reads, however Luke backtracks a bit by saying "I don't think that this is a slam dunk Marci is town case". I am not overjoyed by the hedginess on marcistar since a lot of Luke's posts have been used defending her. The hedginess is continued in 412, the posts 413, 414, 415 & 419 are meta dives into marci's past games, but Luke admits that he doesn't have any reliable meta tells and thus marcistar stays in the null range.

Conclusion

: Lukewarm spends a lot of time and posts semi-defending marcistar by dismissing many reasons for scum reading her as NAI while staying null throughout the entire game (minus the occasional "maybe town" or "maybe scum" comment). What makes me dislike the null read especially is the fact that I count 25-30 posts made that more or less directly have to do with marci in a 70 post ISO. With that being said, I don't think that Luke can be mafia if marcistar is. No-one enters the thread and spends a third of their posts on their scum buddy. Overall, I rate Luke's interactions with marci as lean town for them. If marci is town, I'm going to scrutinize Luke some more. Outside of the associative reads, I understand that Luke latches on to the player they best know to post about. This is something I would do as well. However, I'm a bit disappointed that the reads always end nullish.

General thoughts

: On the other hand, the rest of Luke's ISO has been quite towny since their reappearance 281. I don't want to dwell on this as long as the Luke-marci interactions, but I have a couple comments here as well. What stuck out to me the most was Luke not going with the flow. When Luke reemerged at 281, their reads were independent from thread consensus. Multiple reads lists had been posted, it would have been really easy to simply "copy" them without having anyone really bat an eye. But Luke didn't, instead they scum-cased Somnus and placed a scum lean on BigTerp in 316. The lock-town on TTTT also doesn't benefit scum!Luke (420). As mafia, Luke would want to either
a) push for TTTT to get lynched, or
b) night-kill TTTT without having a strong connection tied to the kill.
But by putting TTTT as their highest town, scum!Luke wouldn't be able to do a) or b) without receiving suspicion. The fact that Luke town-locked TTTT without having pressure on them to do so makes me feel better about them.

Conclusion

:

I'm comfortable with putting Luke as a town read

. What Luke lacks in towniness regarding their marcistar read they make up with their other posts. Particularly if marci turns out to be mafia it will make me more confident in my Luke read. They have just had a towny thread presence in this game.

I thought it was a good post on day 2 Lukewarm. In regards to day 1, if you boil it down, it says Lukewarm is town and marcistar is scum. Safest opinion you could have. I feel like scum!Turtle could have used this post to justify suspecting Lukewarm on day 2, instead of killing him. But if mafia is something like Mr Turtle/Somnus, I could see why they would kill Lukewarm anyway. Slight +town for Mr Turtle.