Newbie 2090 (Game Over)

[PlmPestPlaY]

If Somnus is town, then nothing makes sense anymore. I think Somnus has to be mafia.

VOTE: Somnus

Why the rush? Your read on me seems to change by the hour.

[Somnus]

If Somnus is town, then nothing makes sense anymore. I think Somnus has to be mafia.

VOTE: Somnus

Why the rush? Your read on me seems to change by the hour.

Sometimes it changes paragraph to paragraph (see post 471).

[Frozen Angel]

Vote Count 2-3

Somnus (1):

furtiveglance

Mr Turtle (1):

TTTT

Not Voting (5):

Mr Turtle, Somnus, PlmPestPlaY, GoldfishFromTheMoon, BigTerp

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate.

Deadline: March 22, 5:25 am GMT.

Countdown: (expired on 2022-03-22 05:25:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[TTTT]

TTTT has it occured to you that Golfish sheeped your Turtle read out of nowhere and is attempting to buddy/pocket you?

I am aware of the effect I have on newbscum

[TTTT]

Somnus
who is in your scumpool besides Furtive?

[BigTerp]

Some thoughts this morning...........

TTTT

- I'm liking a lot of their recent posts. It's coherent and seems to be in the favor of moving the game along and really trying to figure things out. There have been several posts regarding Mr. Turtle and Furtive that I found myself shaking my head in agreement with.

PPPP

- I've turned the corner with PPP from null/scum to a pretty strong town read. I mentioned it here https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13294610 and the same seems to be continuing.

Goldfish

- Null. Still a REALLY tough read for me. I had the person in the slot first as scummy, and Goldfish is becoming more of a townish read as the game goes on. But I'm having troubling consolidating the slot and making a read one way or the other.

Somnus

- Null/scummy read. This continues to be a tough one for me. My last read still rings true.

Posting seems forced with little substance. It's like Somnus is here and participating, but just enough to appear as present and participating. Not giving much thought on their own reads nor others. Good strategy for scum, so if they are flipped there isn't much to go own based on their previous post.

Mr. Turtle

- Has gone from null to scum read. TTTT made some interesting and reveling thoughts on TTTT here https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13295762 and here https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13295798. Initially I gave Mr. Turtle credit for their informative and seemingly well thought out posts. But TTTT made a good point here that much of it is irrelevant to what was going on in the game.

Furtive

- Scum read. My biggest flip from day one. Had them as strong town along with Luke (pretty much a coin toss between the two as who was most town), but this https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13294102 and this https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13294255 has caused a complete 180 for me.


With all of that said, I'm good with any of the last three on my list.

VOTE: Mr.Turtle as I'd like to hear MUCH more from them.

[Somnus]

Somnus
who is in your scumpool besides Furtive?

The way I'm trying to look at it is:

1.) Who would I be willing to vote for today
2.) Who wouldn't I be willing to vote for today

As I said before, I think analyzing the Marci wagon + those who were willing to push through either of Somnus/Marci is important, but more importantly, revisiting each person's progression of how they got there and if it felt natural. Mis-limming a townie doesn't = scum, but how they got there is important. I think the two people least likely to flip scum at this point are you and Terp. I'd be down with hearing a case for Goldfish, Pimpest, or Mr. Turtle.

I don't lock-town anyone unless they're mechanically cleared, but as it stands, I won't be voting for you or Terp today.

[furtiveglance]

Public opinion seems to have turned against me between the start of Day 2 and now. I think this is because I have encouraged people to vote for a mafioso and am now being 'silenced by the mob'. I will ignore Somnus and Golfish who are only throwing shade at me because I said it was them first, and haven't made any decent points at all.

[Somnus]

Public opinion seems to have turned against me between the start of Day 2 and now. I think this is because I have encouraged people to vote for a mafioso and am now being 'silenced by the mob'. I will ignore Somnus and Golfish who are only throwing shade at me because I said it was them first, and haven't made any decent points at all.

I like you, furtive, but this is kind of gross and not a productive approach.

[furtiveglance]

Furtive

- Scum read. My biggest flip from day one. Had them as strong town along with Luke (pretty much a coin toss between the two as who was most town), but this https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13294102 and this https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13294255 has caused a complete 180 for me.

BigTerp I still think you're town so I will address your points.

The first is my reluctance to hammer a player who had not claimed their role. I didn't want marcistar to turn out to be a power role and I would look very stupid. They never claimed, so I never hammered - it's as simple as that. I get the feeling you think I didn't hammer so I wouldn't look bad for it, which is not the case at all. If marcistar had said they were VT I would have hammered.

Your second reason for suspecting me is my confidence in my read on Somnus. I can only try to convey how certain I am that Somus is mafia. They have made a lot of posts, yet never pushed any player hard. They seem to defer to the consensus every time they say anything about the game - for instance recently saying they would vote for any generally scumread player in 806. I read through their previous newbie game (when they were mafia) and nothing is different to me this game. Somnus is guilty of active lurking, blending, and being generally agreeable without sticking their neck out. All they have done is question reads without giving their own analysis.

[furtiveglance]

Public opinion seems to have turned against me between the start of Day 2 and now. I think this is because I have encouraged people to vote for a mafioso and am now being 'silenced by the mob'. I will ignore Somnus and Golfish who are only throwing shade at me because I said it was them first, and haven't made any decent points at all.

I like you, furtive, but this is kind of gross and not a productive approach.

Who are the mafia from your perspective?

[Somnus]

I've been the least agreeable person in this game with the possible exception of Marci, and I didn't say in 806 what you're implying I said.

[Somnus]

My guess would be that both of them are in a pool of you, Goldfish, Pimpest, and Mr. Turtle. What I would never do, however, is announce that I have zero interest in hearing from any of them. Look at how much I engaged with Pimpest on Day 1 and tried to sort him, despite voting for him.

[BigTerp]

BigTerp I still think you're town so I will address your points.

The first is my reluctance to hammer a player who had not claimed their role. I didn't want marcistar to turn out to be a power role and I would look very stupid. They never claimed, so I never hammered - it's as simple as that. I get the feeling you think I didn't hammer so I wouldn't look bad for it, which is not the case at all. If marcistar had said they were VT I would have hammered.

Your second reason for suspecting me is my confidence in my read on Somnus. I can only try to convey how certain I am that Somus is mafia. They have made a lot of posts, yet never pushed any player hard. They seem to defer to the consensus every time they say anything about the game - for instance recently saying they would vote for any generally scumread player in 806. I read through their previous newbie game (when they were mafia) and nothing is different to me this game. Somnus is guilty of active lurking, blending, and being generally agreeable without sticking their neck out. All they have done is question reads without giving their own analysis.

I appreciate the response to my scum reading of you. You've made some valid points that I must consider. But the below is not helping your case with me.

BigTerp I still think you're town so I will address your points.

I will ignore Somnus and Golfish who are only throwing shade at me because I said it was them first, and haven't made any decent points at all.

This just seems like some really scummy posts to me.

[furtiveglance]

The aim of the game is to find mafia. I think I'm doing that well, or am at least close. I'm not worried if you think I'm scummy for pointing fingers.

[BigTerp]

The aim of the game is to find mafia. I think I'm doing that well, or am at least close. I'm not worried if you think I'm scummy for pointing fingers.

It's not about you pointing fingers, it's about you picking and choosing who to engage with. Not sure why one would do that?

[furtiveglance]

The aim of the game is to find mafia. I think I'm doing that well, or am at least close. I'm not worried if you think I'm scummy for pointing fingers.

It's not about you pointing fingers, it's about you picking and choosing who to engage with. Not sure why one would do that?

I think the scumteam is Somnus/Goldfish at the moment. I won't explain to mafia why I'm town

[PlmPestPlaY]

Will just say this though.

Mr Turtle could you expand on why you scum-read furtiveglance after #1 scum-reading marcistar, who you said made the most well thought out case against furtiveglance?

The furtiveglance read and the marcistar read are largely independent. I thought marcistar's post on furtiveglance was the townies thing she had done up to that point and I agreed with some of the reasonings in the post. I don't see the need to do associative reads before we have a concrete alignment flip. With that being said, I'd like to revisit my scum and town leans (including furtiveglance) soon.

Are those reads independant though? If furtiveglance and marcistar are both mafia, that would mean marcistar made "the most well thought-out case in the game" against the other mafia player. Do you think that is something marcistar would do?

When I say independent, I mean that I read them independently. Yes, if marcistar flips mafia, I think that makes furtiveglance look much better. I don't think marcistar makes her first case on her scum buddy.

But

I see no reason for me to find furtiveglance scummy and then dismissing it because marci cased them.

Ahh, why not? Why would dismissing furtiveglance be a bad move? I think I would agree with you, had you not explicitly made marcistar your #1. It makes me think your reads-list is made up.
For your scum-lean of me you referenced your previous explanation for null-leaning me. Did you scum-lean me because more time had passed and nothing had changed?

It wouldn't be a bad move, but I made my reads independently from one another. Yes, if marcistar flipped scum that would've cleared furtiveglance. But why did I need to preemptively clear furtiveglance for a non-existent flip? I get you think it's weird that I scum read marcistar and said "Wow, that's a good case", but marcistar helped me see something that I hadn't seen before. #1 scum read doesn't mean 100% lock scum, even top scum reads do towny things. What makes marcistar as my #1 scum read different than marcistar as my #2 scum read? Following your logic, if you scum read someone you shouldn't agree with their reads. Why does this only apply to the top scum read?

Where did I reference my previous explanation for null-leaning you (I'm genuinely not quite sure what you mean)? Could you like a post?

To answer your last question. In 276 you write "explained above", which I assume refers to 228. As for the rest, I'll try to justify it best I can.

1) You desribed marcistar ISO #3 post as the most well thought-out post this game. I take it this means the post is towny.
2) This would mean you #1 scum-leaned marcistar despite that post. Nothing wrong with that necessarily.
3) You possibly found your #1 significantly more scummy than your #2. To me this would mean you would find it more significant, if #1 made a really towny post scum-leaning #2, than the other way around.
4) So I feel like it would be natural to reconsider furtiveglance, since why would your #1 make such a towny post against furtiveglance, if they're a pair?

Anyway, I got what I wanted out of this conversation. Feel free to respond. As you can see, we would also like to hear your thoughts on the game right now.

[BigTerp]

Not directly related, but how are you all able to link directly to a specific post with the post number itself as the link, like PPP has done above? The only way I've been able to figure it out is to copy the link to the specific post number but it shows up as a long URL. Trying to figure out how to do it like this....

432

[furtiveglance]

Use the tag that says post in the preview

[PlmPestPlaY]

The way I'm trying to look at it is:

1.) Who would I be willing to vote for today
2.) Who wouldn't I be willing to vote for today

Ah, yeah, I guess? This seems kinda empty to me. Could you give me and GoldfishFromTheMoon the answers to 677? I don't think we understood it.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I will ignore Somnus and Golfish who are only throwing shade at me because I said it was them first, and haven't made any decent points at all.

That is not the reason I "went after you" if you haven't noticed literally everyone has said it's me except for bigTerp who thinks I'm a null at best. If I was going to OMGUS someone it would have been TTTT who actually voted for me.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I also think I did make some valid points, although I get that if you're town they must seem pretty bad.

I said before that Furtive keeps defending PPP, I think if PPP is scum furtive is likely the partner.

This quote I agree with

The aim of the game is to find mafia. I think I'm doing that well, or am at least close. I'm not worried if you think I'm scummy for pointing fingers.

It's not about you pointing fingers, it's about you picking and choosing who to engage with. Not sure why one would do that?

And your attitude day 2 is getting stranger by the minute, you seem like scum who is afraid they've just been accused.

[Mr Turtle]

we owe Luck the courtesy to review his case on Somnus

Started working through the isos of people not in my town pile, planning to do everyone, but found scum before I finished my list

BigTerp

Did not like his entrance 101/102/108 - discussed before

Most of his iso feels empty. Like so much of it is talking about whether or not we should be talking about prior games, that it is completely overshadowing any thoughts he might have about this game - which is kinda ironic tbh.

The things that give me pause are 207 and 251 because they are exactly my reactions to those same posts [see 291 and 300 from my own iso. Like eerily similar to the point where I might have suspected him mirroring my posts if his did not come before mine lol.

Somnus

Reading his iso, his first 22 posts say nothing at all. That is a lot of posts to make, for it to say nothing.

There is a latch onto BigTerp's entrance [135 136 139 147 156 172 186 (in spoiler below)] - then more nothing posts [140 148 149 154] before a "prod vote"

This is scum.

Post 187 / Iso 34 ---- He is at prod votes, with no thoughts or reasons. Even looking at his interactions with BigTerp - no hint at thinking that BigTerp is scum making up a reason to scum read him.

Spoiler:

Sorry, hit submit with my fat thumb before I finished my thoughts.

I've got furtiveglance as a town lean, but am a bit confused with post #92. Are you claiming Town Cop there?

Somnus leaning scum is just an early gut feel.

VOTE: SOMNUS

In 92 I was joking about the tags under our usernames.

Gotcha. Although joking like that can create confusion. Who likes confusion in a game or Mafia? SCUM!! I've still got you as a town read though, for now.

Speaking of confusion, the first page or two had a lot of talk about a previous game or 2. Seems like a few of you were already in a game together, which is fine. But talk that like, again, is prime for causing confusion. Further cements my thoughts (scum lean) on Somnus and raises my eyebrow towards TTTT.

Welcome but like...this is such a weird post. I pointed out in my first post that there were a lot of players from newbie 2088 in this game. Then furtive and TTTT very briefly asked about my other game I played on here in which I was scum. I guess in your world I should have just ignored their questions?

Sorry, hit submit with my fat thumb before I finished my thoughts.

I've got furtiveglance as a town lean, but am a bit confused with post #92. Are you claiming Town Cop there?

Somnus leaning scum is just an early gut feel.

VOTE: SOMNUS

He made a joke about being mafia role cop and you’re asking if he hard claimed town cop? Am I reading this correctly? I’m having a hard time believing you legit misread things in your catch-up this much.

Yeah. Like I’m cool with the vote on me, but the logic used behind it, as well as the immediate town-read on furtive (not a shot at furtive, btw) for the exact same thing is absurd. Not to mention thinking that furtive hard-claimed town cop less than 24 hours into the game after jokingly stating he was mafia role cop. Enough about power roles. This is a bad idea.

Hard hard disagree. Stuff like that (in the first two pages, no less when like 4 people out of 9 were here) helps sort people’s experience/play style. That’s the opposite of confusion. You scum-read me for it but gave the two players asking questions about previous games a null and/or townread for it.

Hard hard disagree. Stuff like that (in the first two pages, no less when like 4 people out of 9 were here) helps sort people’s experience/play style. That’s the opposite of confusion. You scum-read me for it but gave the two players asking questions about previous games a null and/or townread for it.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. Discussing previous games is unproductive, IMO. Understanding players experience level is a different story and something that is helpful. No need to discuss how someone played previously as Mafia, or vanilla town, etc. though.

So TTTT and furtive get a scum-lean for asking me about my previous scum-game then, correct? And I'd get a town-read if I ignored their questions and told them it wasn't productive? Like...lol what even is this logic.

Hoping to hear more from lukewarm, Mr Turtle, and Pimpest (as well as for marcistar to join) so I have a complete roster to make initial reads of.

Hard hard disagree. Stuff like that (in the first two pages, no less when like 4 people out of 9 were here) helps sort people’s experience/play style. That’s the opposite of confusion. You scum-read me for it but gave the two players asking questions about previous games a null and/or townread for it.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. Discussing previous games is unproductive, IMO. Understanding players experience level is a different story and something that is helpful. No need to discuss how someone played previously as Mafia, or vanilla town, etc. though.

So TTTT and furtive get a scum-lean for asking me about my previous scum-game then, correct? And I'd get a town-read if I ignored their questions and told them it wasn't productive? Like...lol what even is this logic.

It was something to get things moving for me early day one. It just seemed odd, as I'm not used to so much discussion about previous games, especially when it directly effects the current game. Maybe it's just that things have changed in that respect since I last played. But especially for a newbie game, I don't see how it's productive. And I certainly am not going to dig back through previous games to try and gain Intel.

That's fine if you choose not to dig through people's ISOs from previous games.

You know what else gets things moving early in Day 1? Discussing people's experience/play-style.

Lukewarm, if you think I'm playing differently it could be because this is a new game. The first 100 posts had a more jokey/relaxed feel. You should also bear in mind that this is my second game on the site so my playstyle is not yet formed.

Exactly. There were 4 of us here (5 if you include Luke's 1 post) when the game started and we were mostly joking around, as well as me answering questions about the only other game I've played on-site. So I don't understand this notion that I haven't said anything game-related. Everything I've said after the first 12 hours after the game started has been game-related.

Hilariously, asking those questions apparently got you town-read, but answering them got me scum-read because logic.

BigTerp's entrance is "weird" - not scummy.

Like I’m cool with the vote on me, but the logic used behind it, as well as the immediate town-read on furtive (not a shot at furtive, btw) for the exact same thing is absurd

The "logic used behind" the vote on him is "absurd" but never questioned as scummy / fake.

His whole reaction feels more like scum who thinks they are catching flak for rediculous reasons, then a townie trying to sort through to determine BigTerp's alignment.

-----

I will keep doing the other people to give a full reads list, but I am happy with

VOTE: Somnus

just wanna remind everyone that my dead BFF said this...

@marci
is 2061 your only Newbie scumgame?

you two played as a hydra in a game that ended barely a month ago
so that's one reason I don't love the mutual null reads

I am ready to town lock TTTT all the way to Elo (where obviously he should be reconsidered if he is alive at that point) for this.

I never see this much meta work from Scum unless they are desperate. There is no reason for Scum TTTT to be digging through Marci's past scum games here, or whatever he did to find our hydra game either.

Ok, well Lukewarm townread Turtle

he also ended the day talking about how you were scumslipping

So we should sheep Luke when it's directly beneficial to us and not sheep Luke when it goes against our agenda? How does that work? I don't like that only some of Luke's posts apply because you say so.

Mod edit: removed the spoiler tags to fix the formatting of the post.

[Mr Turtle]

I literally have no idea what happened to the formatting.