Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[MathBlade]

I have to go now. There is at least one scum in that hood if not two. No way there’s zero.

[Titus]

Because I think that hood has two scum in it for mechanics reasons as I said earlier

April is a carryover of Skitter read and boon pushed Malcolm over my objections AND admitted Malcolm was about not elimming in my scumreads.

And you haven’t given me anything to TR

April isn't Skitter. Galron is.

Not eliminating someone elses scumreads, even conftown, is NAI. Arguably disagreeing with conftown is more likely to come from town as scum can just select a read you are wrong on.

[Nero Cain]

As for the hood...

I asked Dats d1 for links of games he's played in with hoods. I bet he thought I was asking him to judge the reliability of mods putting scum in hoods but I wasn't. I had wanted to see what his normal reaction to hoods were like. I skimmed and I really didn't find anything.

this makes me think, did skitter's wagon go up at like, any point other than last night?

I think some people had mentioned Skitter being scum most notably Math and Fire for not doing her "ping" thing.

Can you link me a game or 2 that you played in where there was a hood?

thanks, i'll check that out.

normal games that i've played in that had a hood are:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=80974 - 9p, town/town
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=82613 - 9p, town/scum
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=83045 - 9p, town/town
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=84455 - 13p, town/town
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=84322 - 12p, town/scum/scum

and one game which had a scum/scum hood of a scum and a traito

r that i'm not really counting since it wasn't a hood in the usual sense.

so, yeah. i'm really not buying the notion that "there has to be scum in hood because *radio static*".

it could just be a very odd coincidence but even if Gal was a traitor we need to vote the 3 not him scum first but scum/traitor hoods do exist. I was in one too, dunno if it was the same game he was in or not.

[MathBlade]

Because I think that hood has two scum in it for mechanics reasons as I said earlier

April is a carryover of Skitter read and boon pushed Malcolm over my objections AND admitted Malcolm was about not elimming in my scumreads.

And you haven’t given me anything to TR

April isn't Skitter. Galron is.

Not eliminating someone elses scumreads, even conftown, is NAI. Arguably disagreeing with conftown is more likely to come from town as scum can just select a read you are wrong on.

I misspoke

April is Ari who defended Skitter

I really gotta go

[fireisredsir]

1) You might disagree with how VP did handle the soft, which is fair. However, VP tried in a manner that got the soft out without Yeet claiming it. This left some doubt and made the scum kill more informative and saved a town from an elimination. Maybe VP could have claimed it for himself as a gambit, but other than that, I can't see what VP could have done differently.
2) Fair.
3) I'd like this sourced.
4) It is the trajectory with recent VP votes. Self sacrifice is null though.

1) im not saying he's scum for it or that he should have handled it differently (altho imo some of it looked p calculated and not a genuine town reaction). im saying that he doesn't deserve any towncred for it bc he would do the same as scum. and him acting like he does deserve towncred for it is scummy.
3) 5198
4) im talking about earlier mostly, in d2. he did it even when galron/malc were lead wagons. today he's saying that he thinks his lim is bad for town

[fireisredsir]

Reading the game state correctly is +town.

why? scum has a better read of the gamestate than town like 95% of the time

[Cape90]

I am at like 80-95% sure he’s scum.

Galron legit thought he was dead.

My comment doesn't prove anything but I just wanted to say it because he said it in our hood night 3 and I thought it was funny

[Titus]

1) Why wouldn't scum just force Galron through until yeet was forced to claim, thus verifying the investigation result? If Enchant is town and honestly telling, then they net a dead Galron and possibly a dead yeet/blocked yeet and dead Math?

[fireisredsir]

cause they think they can come out of it looking townier this way, and a town malcolm kill is just as good. the people pushing galron even after yeet makes it obvious he's softing are always gonna be easy pushes if town isn't thinking critically about things

[Titus]

VOTE: Nero

Not sure if this is scum. I'm voting here for the wagonomics and work with VP.

Join me VP?

[fireisredsir]

oooo bold, i like it

[Nero Cain]

i mean everyone had already picked up on it. Scum pushing Gal was too much work besides scum were the ones sitting safely on the Malcolm ML.

[MathBlade]

I am at like 80-95% sure he’s scum.

Galron legit thought he was dead.

My comment doesn't prove anything but I just wanted to say it because he said it in our hood night 3 and I thought it was funny

Why did Galron think he was dead?

Did he not look at the VC?

Did he expect his partners to bus him?

This goes back to my prior theory of Galron just not checking in when he’s scum.

[Titus]

cause they think they can come out of it looking townier this way, and a town malcolm kill is just as good. the people pushing galron even after yeet makes it obvious he's softing are always gonna be easy pushes if town isn't thinking critically about things

Fair. I wouldn't advocate that play as scum but I forget that people play differently. I'd feel that's slightly less good but it's arguably better for a risk averse team. Taking risks given at least two town wagons would be dangerous. I don't think that happened but I don't find it scummy or unreasonable.

[MathBlade]

1) Why wouldn't scum just force Galron through until yeet was forced to claim, thus verifying the investigation result? If Enchant is town and honestly telling, then they net a dead Galron and possibly a dead yeet/blocked yeet and dead Math?

Because if I am right Galron is scum and they won’t know how or why Yeet thinks inno

Could be Galron did the kill N1 as disposable scum
Or he’s traitor and didn’t want to risk it.

Then if they force Yeet to claim when Galron flips town learns a lot

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: Nero

Not sure if this is scum. I'm voting here for the wagonomics and work with VP.

Join me VP?

Who do you actually scum read?

[MathBlade]

Ugh I really gotta go sorry I keep popping back

[Titus]

This is a problem from the

Igo Hatsuyoron

, a traditional collection of very hard go problems. We are still unsure if we have found the solution. It is considered the hardest go problem.

---

Official Votecount 2.18

Galron (7): MathBlade, Cape90, tenebrousluminary, Enchant, MalcolmTucker, Nero Cain, Save the Dragons

[E-2]

MalcolmTucker (6): Eyes without a face, Yeet, April Ludgate, Scorpious, Galron, VP Baltar
VP Baltar (3): DeasVail, Titus, Frogsterking

Not Voting (1): fireisredsir

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to achieve an elimination.

Day 2 will end in (expired on 2022-03-16 09:20:00).

click here for joined mod iso.

Sometimes you end up in a situation where neither player can kill off the other's stones. This is known as a

seki

and the spaces involved do not give points for either player.

---

Official Votecount 2.19

MalcolmTucker (7): Eyes without a face, Yeet, April Ludgate, Scorpious, Galron, VP Baltar, Titus

[E-2]

VP Baltar (5): DeasVail, Frogsterking, tenebrousluminary, Save the Dragons, Nero Cain
Galron (4): MathBlade, Cape90, Enchant, MalcolmTucker

Not Voting (1): fireisredsir

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to achieve an elimination.

Day 2 will end in (expired on 2022-03-16 09:20:00).

click here for joined mod iso.

Alive, dead, seki, or ko are the four results a group can usually end up having. I'll be going more into the strategy of ko in the future, but for now here is the Carpenter's Square, a very complex corner that often ends up in a ko. It has been suggested that if you fully understand this corner you are at professional strength.

---

Official Votecount 2.20

MalcolmTucker (9): Eyes without a face, Yeet, April Ludgate, Scorpious, Galron, VP Baltar, Titus, fireisredsir, MathBlade

[E-0!]

VP Baltar (5): DeasVail, Frogsterking, tenebrousluminary, Save the Dragons, Nero Cain
Galron (3): Cape90, Enchant, MalcolmTucker

Not Voting (0):

With 17 players alive, an elimination has been achieved.

click here for joined mod iso.

Who do you think are scum sitting on Malcom? Do you think the VP wagon is pure?

[Titus]

VOTE: Nero

Not sure if this is scum. I'm voting here for the wagonomics and work with VP.

Join me VP?

Who do you actually scum read?

Scorpious eyes and DV are my biggest scumreads.

[Nero Cain]

Why vote me if you want to work with VP and he's voting eyes?

[Titus]

Why vote me if you want to work with VP and he's voting eyes?

VP was voting eyes to sheep me. I am deciding I should be second fiddle because I want to see reactions to you versus VP. If I'm right, we have plenty of time to call it off. If I'm wrong, then your reactions and the reactions of others would show that.

I want the fight between you and VP to get Math off this hood thing but still respect it enough to get documentation or reset if wrong.

You versus VP is great for the collective for now, even if neither of you get eliminated.

[Titus]

1) Why wouldn't scum just force Galron through until yeet was forced to claim, thus verifying the investigation result? If Enchant is town and honestly telling, then they net a dead Galron and possibly a dead yeet/blocked yeet and dead Math?

Because if I am right Galron is scum and they won’t know how or why Yeet thinks inno

Could be Galron did the kill N1 as disposable scum
Or he’s traitor and didn’t want to risk it.

Then if they force Yeet to claim when Galron flips town learns a lot

Let's slow down and unpack this.

If Galron was the traitor, then scum would have to know that and know yeet's result would be a good one. That is unlikely given how few posts Galron had d1. A traitor communication would have been spotted. Maybe it was before he came in but it'd have to be there. Then, they'd have to assume yeet cleared a player they're assuming to be bad.

If Galron did the n1 kill as "disposable scum", then this also makes suppositions. 1) That scum would infer that he wouldn't be blocked or 2) He's a goon with PRs and there's no multitasking. and 3) no one else fits better. That's still assumptions to make. They'd also have to assume yeet got a clear that shouldn't be true. They don't know his role.

Occam's Razor applies here.

[Mizzytastic]

Aaaand...

[Mizzytastic]

Sometimes a ko is onesided. One player doesn't lose much if they lose but wins big if they win or vice versa. This is called a picnic ko or flower ko. Here white could choose to just live by playing 4 after black 1, but instead created a ko for the whole group, instead of just accepting the smaller reduction. Black doesn't lose much if he loses the ko, but white loses everything if they do.

---

Official Votecount 3.5

VP Baltar (5): Nero Cain, fireisredsir, MathBlade, tenebrousluminary, Enchant

[E-3]

Eyes without a face (2): Cape90, VP Baltar
Nero Cain (1): Titus
Enchant (1): Scorpious
April Ludgate (1): Save The Dragons

Not Voting (5): Frogsterking, DeasVail, Galron, Eyes without a face, April Ludgate

With 15 players alive, it takes 8 votes to achieve an elimination.

Day 3 will end in (expired on 2022-03-25 22:15:00).

click here for joined mod iso.

[Titus]

I get some of the suspicion on VP, but I just can't bring myself to agree with it. Yet, the scummiest slot I find is Nero and he's not a scum scumread. The thread is largely made up of people who I have logical reasons to think their judgment is off this game.

I do have to consider that a broken clock is right twice a day and the sheer volume of town on that wagon is a thing.