Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[Titus]

Why does it feel wrong? Iirc you’re the one that said there’s more than feelings?

Right. I agree with most of his wall but minus a few conclusions. I feel he's taking chances and risks to save town. I haven't read D1 but leaders on D1 are usually town unless scum really need a shakeup. Given later days, that's not likely. I've engaged with fire to where I partially see his points but I feel fire assumes scum play like he would when there's multiple ways to go about things.

I'd like you to engage me like Fire has.

That’s what I am doing

You said don’t use 3/4ths of the reasons to scum or TR someone and said to answer your question

So I am

Can you slow down and combine into one post? It's hard to follow your train of thought.

I did

You said to engage you like fire is

So I am one reason at a time

Like wtf?

His Malcolm progression is horrible and is just saving his own butt

He said he won’t use the hood until it is de scummed

This is bad hood play which you Titus would disagree with because when town you love them

But yet he doesn’t ever want to elim in the hood

The cog dissonance is real

Then there’s the never states my points right either

Slow down. Proper sentences with citations. I'm trying to listen to you. Please make it easier. I want this argument to be here for everyone. If I lose, I lose. I just want everyone to understand. Your disjointed frequently rushed posts are difficult to follow, thus I miss points and misunderstand you. You're playing with passion but it's overwhelming you.

[Titus]

i always have fun!!

If you suppose VP and I are town, what does your world look like?

[MathBlade]

Hood people what happened in your hood overnight?

Nero pushed me to talk about reads. I told him I'm not doing that in a hood with a potential scum, and that it was kinda antitown to push it repeatedly.

That was all.

I doubt the hood is gonna get used much until we descum it

Doesn’t wanna de scum the hood

This is proper sentences.

This is with citations. Namely the quoted post.

VP says the hood won’t be used until it is descummed

Yet resists all calls to do so and doesn’t push anyone in the hood.

You know what optimal hood play is.

Yet you after seeing this ask for what I already did. It’s infuriating.

[MathBlade]

This feels like you don’t want to interact with me and can’t find anything wrong

[VP Baltar]

Reading the game state correctly is +town.

why? scum has a better read of the gamestate than town like 95% of the time

In my experience, scum are actually not better at reading nuances in the game. They are paranoid and over value the wrong things as being dangerous to them. This is a flaw in my own scum play.

In this particular point, yes scum could potentially pick up on sorts faster, but to me that is also an experience/luck thing. I'm talking about something more complex here, and that is being able to read yeet as town there. While scum would know yeet is town, galron would still look like a viable lim at E-2. That is why scum were shading yeet's info and saying it was unreliable or that he could be scum. It is a misreading of how yeet played and tried to save galron without full claiming. Town players are much less likely to do that there because they could see yeet didn't really have scum motivation for how he was doing his softing. I get into this in detail in my opening post.

Your argument may be that I'm playing 5-D chess and wifoming you, but the more straightforward answer is just that I'm town who isn't terrible at this game.

[fireisredsir]

i always have fun!!

If you suppose VP and I are town, what does your world look like?

uhhh ig then like cape/deas, maybe nero or april? eyes? enchant? but deas/frog/eyes are kinda afk rn and it feels like scum has been more involved in the day so far than that

[Nero Cain]

Titus you voted VP yesterday, what's making you not want to vote him today?

[Titus]

Hood people what happened in your hood overnight?

Nero pushed me to talk about reads. I told him I'm not doing that in a hood with a potential scum, and that it was kinda antitown to push it repeatedly.

That was all.

I doubt the hood is gonna get used much until we descum it

Doesn’t wanna de scum the hood

This is proper sentences.

This is with citations. Namely the quoted post.

VP says the hood won’t be used until it is descummed

Yet resists all calls to do so and doesn’t push anyone in the hood.

You know what optimal hood play is.

Yet you after seeing this ask for what I already did. It’s infuriating.

He's literally calling Nero scum. He's working with his townreads, which is optimal play too. Sometimes optimal play suggests to two separate things. Second, not everyone agrees with us on how hoods should operate. I can't say a different playstyle is scummy.

[Titus]

Titus you voted VP yesterday, what's making you not want to vote him today?

My VP vote was not based on his play but based on in thread events and prior wagons. Now that I'm invested, I'm voting on play.

[MathBlade]

Hood people what happened in your hood overnight?

Nero pushed me to talk about reads. I told him I'm not doing that in a hood with a potential scum, and that it was kinda antitown to push it repeatedly.

That was all.

I doubt the hood is gonna get used much until we descum it

Doesn’t wanna de scum the hood

This is proper sentences.

This is with citations. Namely the quoted post.

VP says the hood won’t be used until it is descummed

Yet resists all calls to do so and doesn’t push anyone in the hood.

You know what optimal hood play is.

Yet you after seeing this ask for what I already did. It’s infuriating.

He's literally calling Nero scum. He's working with his townreads, which is optimal play too. Sometimes optimal play suggests to two separate things. Second, not everyone agrees with us on how hoods should operate. I can't say a different playstyle is scummy.

Calling someone scum and pushing them are two different things.

This is also 2000 posts later.

He still went a good chunk of time not wanting to elim in the hood

[Nero Cain]

so my play is scummy? whats scummy about it?

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Nero

Not sure if this is scum. I'm voting here for the wagonomics and work with VP.

Join me VP?

Sure. If we are going to 1v1 with me and him today, I guess let's do this thing. I don't think this is likely to hit a scum PR. that's going to be in the folks laying low/not mixing it up.

VOTE: nero

[tenebrousluminary]

1) Why wouldn't scum just force Galron through until yeet was forced to claim, thus verifying the investigation result? If Enchant is town and honestly telling, then they net a dead Galron and possibly a dead yeet/blocked yeet and dead Math?

Because if I am right Galron is scum and they won’t know how or why Yeet thinks inno

Could be Galron did the kill N1 as disposable scum
Or he’s traitor and didn’t want to risk it.

Then if they force Yeet to claim when Galron flips town learns a lot

1) Why wouldn't scum just force Galron through until yeet was forced to claim, thus verifying the investigation result? If Enchant is town and honestly telling, then they net a dead Galron and possibly a dead yeet/blocked yeet and dead Math?

Because if I am right Galron is scum and they won’t know how or why Yeet thinks inno

Could be Galron did the kill N1 as disposable scum
Or he’s traitor and didn’t want to risk it.

Then if they force Yeet to claim when Galron flips town learns a lot

Let's slow down and unpack this.

If Galron was the traitor, then scum would have to know that and know yeet's result would be a good one. That is unlikely given how few posts Galron had d1. A traitor communication would have been spotted. Maybe it was before he came in but it'd have to be there. Then, they'd have to assume yeet cleared a player they're assuming to be bad.

If Galron did the n1 kill as "disposable scum", then this also makes suppositions. 1) That scum would infer that he wouldn't be blocked or 2) He's a goon with PRs and there's no multitasking. and 3) no one else fits better. That's still assumptions to make. They'd also have to assume yeet got a clear that shouldn't be true. They don't know his role.

Occam's Razor applies here.

Agreed. The fact that they killed Yeet to me suggests that they knew Galron to be town, or at least not full scum.

[Titus]

so my play is scummy? whats scummy about it?

I agree with a lot of what VP said. I also feel your pride could be a mask for being scum. I disagree with how strongly VP weighs it though. I feel it's weak evidence. He feels it's strong. I feel he cased DV much better.

[VP Baltar]

i mean everyone had already picked up on it. Scum pushing Gal was too much work besides scum were the ones sitting safely on the Malcolm ML.

What was the protown motivation for making Yeet's role a point of public discussion? I asked you this overnight and you still never answered it.

[fireisredsir]

Why vote me if you want to work with VP and he's voting eyes?

VP was voting eyes to sheep me. I am deciding I should be second fiddle because I want to see reactions to you versus VP. If I'm right, we have plenty of time to call it off. If I'm wrong, then your reactions and the reactions of others would show that.

I want the fight between you and VP to get Math off this hood thing but still respect it enough to get documentation or reset if wrong.

You versus VP is great for the collective for now, even if neither of you get eliminated.

My VP vote was not based on his play but based on in thread events and prior wagons. Now that I'm invested, I'm voting on play.

hmmmmmmmmmm

[Nero Cain]

Wha do you agree with VP on? What does my pride have to do with anything?

[Titus]

Calling someone scum and pushing them are two different things.

This is also 2000 posts later.

He still went a good chunk of time not wanting to elim in the hood

I'm not persuaded by not eliminating in the hood. I think you're overly invested there. The possibility of him being right on his team could be why Nero's invested. I'm leaning more towards agency capture and that he's right on one of Frogstar and StD thus making him a foregone conclusion to eliminate.

[Titus]

It's in my ISO. I'll quote after court.

[MathBlade]

1) Why wouldn't scum just force Galron through until yeet was forced to claim, thus verifying the investigation result? If Enchant is town and honestly telling, then they net a dead Galron and possibly a dead yeet/blocked yeet and dead Math?

Because if I am right Galron is scum and they won’t know how or why Yeet thinks inno

Could be Galron did the kill N1 as disposable scum
Or he’s traitor and didn’t want to risk it.

Then if they force Yeet to claim when Galron flips town learns a lot

1) Why wouldn't scum just force Galron through until yeet was forced to claim, thus verifying the investigation result? If Enchant is town and honestly telling, then they net a dead Galron and possibly a dead yeet/blocked yeet and dead Math?

Because if I am right Galron is scum and they won’t know how or why Yeet thinks inno

Could be Galron did the kill N1 as disposable scum
Or he’s traitor and didn’t want to risk it.

Then if they force Yeet to claim when Galron flips town learns a lot

Let's slow down and unpack this.

If Galron was the traitor, then scum would have to know that and know yeet's result would be a good one. That is unlikely given how few posts Galron had d1. A traitor communication would have been spotted. Maybe it was before he came in but it'd have to be there. Then, they'd have to assume yeet cleared a player they're assuming to be bad.

If Galron did the n1 kill as "disposable scum", then this also makes suppositions. 1) That scum would infer that he wouldn't be blocked or 2) He's a goon with PRs and there's no multitasking. and 3) no one else fits better. That's still assumptions to make. They'd also have to assume yeet got a clear that shouldn't be true. They don't know his role.

Occam's Razor applies here.

Agreed. The fact that they killed Yeet to me suggests that they knew Galron to be town, or at least not full scum.

And I disagree with this.

[MathBlade]

Calling someone scum and pushing them are two different things.

This is also 2000 posts later.

He still went a good chunk of time not wanting to elim in the hood

I'm not persuaded by not eliminating in the hood. I think you're overly invested there. The possibility of him being right on his team could be why Nero's invested. I'm leaning more towards agency capture and that he's right on one of Frogstar and StD thus making him a foregone conclusion to eliminate.

And yet you ignore my reason Malcolm progression is bad? When I cited posts.

I feel you’re always going to move the goal posts and never be convinced

[Titus]

As for your pride, pride can mask scum protecting partners and pushing town. Your very stubborn in my eyes and can mask that to push town. Again, that is my belief that you're capable and I want to see what happens out of respect for Math. I reset the hood after our fight as an olive branch.

[Nero Cain]

What was the protown motivation for making Yeet's role a point of public discussion?

I had none but I'm not informed like you and didn't know if his role was real although he was being pretty open about it so I think claiming that I brought undue attention to it is a stretch.

whats the protown motivation of sitting on a wagon that you thought was going to flip town?

[Titus]

And yet you ignore my reason Malcolm progression is bad? When I cited posts.

Where was this? This is precisely what I was talking about with missing things.

[MathBlade]

Why does it feel wrong? Iirc you’re the one that said there’s more than feelings?

Right. I agree with most of his wall but minus a few conclusions. I feel he's taking chances and risks to save town. I haven't read D1 but leaders on D1 are usually town unless scum really need a shakeup. Given later days, that's not likely. I've engaged with fire to where I partially see his points but I feel fire assumes scum play like he would when there's multiple ways to go about things.

I'd like you to engage me like Fire has.

That’s what I am doing

You said don’t use 3/4ths of the reasons to scum or TR someone and said to answer your question

So I am

Can you slow down and combine into one post? It's hard to follow your train of thought.

I did

You said to engage you like fire is

So I am one reason at a time

Like wtf?

His Malcolm progression is horrible and is just saving his own butt

He said he won’t use the hood until it is de scummed

This is bad hood play which you Titus would disagree with because when town you love them

But yet he doesn’t ever want to elim in the hood

The cog dissonance is real

Then there’s the never states my points right either

Sigh....I kind of like fua for this exchange with fire.

Also I think Malcom is town.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: HEM

Maybe the best approach here is dueling HEM and Wu wagons since that seems to be a divide that is shaping up and I could see a world where either flips scum.