Mini Normal 2268 Game Over

[DkKoba]

the one world where i see roden and gl as t/t just got basically deconfirmed so im going full speed ahead

[tictac]

I think Chaos having the bravery to actually add another vote to my wagon is generally +town, I think scum that knows I'm town would be a little more tentative there, even if they vote me I think they'd play for towncred elsewhere. I don't like that his post nearly exclusively focused on me, hence why I asked about the townreads, but at least it was game advancing

== too scum 2 be scum

[GuiltyLion]

aaahhh word, I totally misunderstood and I can see your point there

[GuiltyLion]

hmm yeah I guess

"scum want me eliminated"
and
"Chaos voting me felt townie despite putting me closer to being eliminated"

aren't exactly super consistent are they

still overall don't like the Meuh passivity in contrast but yeah if Koba/Dwlee/HEM town then one of Chaos/Gamma likely scum

[NorwegianboyEE]

Seeking an replacement for Testarossa

[NorwegianboyEE]

ShadowGirl replaces Testarossa

[NorwegianboyEE]

[3] GuiltyLion: Not Known 15, humaneatingmonkey, ChaosOmega
[2] Meuh: marcistar, GuiltyLion
[2] Roden: DkKoba, Gamma Emerald
[1] Dwlee99: ShadowGirl
[1] tictac: Meuh
[1] humaneatingmonkey: Roden
[1] ChaosOmega: tictac

[1] Not voting: Dwlee99

With 12 players alive, 7 votes are needed for an elimination.

D1: deadline: (expired on 2022-03-29 21:32:48)

[ShadowGirl]

Hello everyone! I played way back in ye olden days and I'm excited to play mafia again! For now, until I read over the thread: UNVOTE: Dwlee99
I hope to post an analysis some time today.

[Meuh]

sure you can make a theory where it does come from town - but what implies it for you?

give me your thought process.

Of course any post can be made by someone of any alignment, but I feel like the ones Roden made line up with what town!Roden would logically do.
If there's a mostly undisturbed wagon on someone they don't think is scum with half the playerbase participating in it, why wouldn't they call it out and try to disturb it? The thought process behind contesting the wagon seems like one town!Roden would naturally come to.
If Roden is scum with GL, what do they really benefit from it? Why would Roden go against a solidified wagon on their partner? There's a slight chance they can shake things up, but it's unlikely.
If Roden is scum and GL is town, I also don't see why they'd be doing this? Towncred post-flip? It still draws a bunch of attention on them, so overall it doesn't seem like the option they'd choose?
When viewing the game from Roden's POV in different scenarios, to me it's more realistic for town!Roden to do what they have done.

[DkKoba]

Hello everyone! I played way back in ye olden days and I'm excited to play mafia again! For now, until I read over the thread: UNVOTE: Dwlee99
I hope to post an analysis some time today.

Do you have an MU account?

[ShadowGirl]

Hello everyone! I played way back in ye olden days and I'm excited to play mafia again! For now, until I read over the thread: UNVOTE: Dwlee99
I hope to post an analysis some time today.

Do you have an MU account?

I'm sorry, I don't know what that acronym means. Is the wiki the best place to look up "newer" slang terms?

[tictac]

mafia unverse is another forum.
wiki is good if somewhat out of date.
newest thing is were not supposed to use the old term 4 elimination.

[DkKoba]

Ah ok i know a shadow who is also a girl from MU so was wondering if you were the same person

[ShadowGirl]

Ah ok i know a shadow who is also a girl from MU so was wondering if you were the same person

Nope, not me. I haven't played on any other mafia forum sites other than mafiascum - and haven't played on here in nearly a decade.

[ChaosOmega]

323 reads lame. You and Dwlee are the two leading wagons, and it looks like the point you're arguing is more active == more pro-town. It's like you're looking for easier lims to push through instead of looking for scum, especially with the swing onto Meuh in 407. Is the reason you haven't voted for HEM that you don't believe you can build a wagon on them?

You misunderstand me here, I'm not trying to argue that I should be townread at large or seen as pro-town, but rather trying to understand how HEM could be so confident I'm scum given the early stage of the game and for pushing on a slot I saw as not likely to be confidently townread by anybody at that point.

The reason I'm not voting HEM is a) because I hate that he tried to manipulate/goad me into voting him and I refuse to allow him to bully my vote that way on principle, and b) because even though I find HEM vaguely scummy, I also don't believe I'm super likely to be correct there. I absolutely do start with easier to pressure/sort players on D1, I believe people who tunnel themselves on the hard-to-read high-activity slots are often wildly wrong in doing so and it's best to use D1 lim on lurky slots that don't have any real remote reason to townread them. I explained this in more detail in my last game I played and I stand by it here as well, it's far easier to imagine me just personality clashing/not liking HEM and being wrong than it is to find good quality reasons to townread a low activity slot that isn't yet even playing. Especially in Meuh's case as the town game marci linked did seem wildly different to her first posts in this game.

I think this is more of a playstyle difference, at least how I'm reading it. The confidence in the push from HEM reads more like bravado (or confidence in himself) more than confidence in the read. There is probably a better way to put it, but I can't think of it.

And that's fair with the personality clash. I've run into that issue a couple times in more recent games (one was Dwlee in the large we played together recently).

I also scumread NK15, the tone in their posting feels fabricated almost to the point like I'm reading a robot. The hyperfocus on the 1 scum/1 traitor thing is silly. It feels really unlikely that GL and NK15 are partnered given NK15's shift onto the wagon, so I think I'm wrong on at least one of my top reads here.

I've found it difficult to read Dwlee in the past, and this game isn't much new so far. @Dwlee, in 391, do you think GL/HEM is S/S?

also on this, I find it a little peculiar you're willing to put me at E-2 when you don't have a solid read on Dwlee and you SR NK15. maybe my brain just works differently but I feel like not being sure about Dwlee should mean you can empathize with how town in my slot would want a wagon there, and SRing NK15 should absolutely disincentivize you from voting alongside him. who are your townreads?

I didn't have anything really in particular to question Dwlee on, it felt more productive to pressure you. The NK15 point is valid, and I brought it up in my post that I'm very likely wrong somewhere here. Gamma has experience with him and says that NK15 feels town, so if that's just his posting style, I need to look past my view of his tone, which is definitely coloring my read of his slot.

Townreads right now are marci, HEM, and Koba.

-----

Alright, reading back through from my last post now.

[Meuh]

meuh been cool during this l-1 thing.

also on this, I disagree. The following post:

And very soon after e-1

So was did I! I posted like 10 seconds after them.
I can see Roden's perspective and frustrations come from a townie here.
I can see a townie defend GL in such a way, because e-1's bad and gamestate's bad! Not scummy to think so tbh imo
Honestly Dk I don't really get the perspective you're presenting rn

would be very easy to write as scum who knows both Roden and I are town.

The "I don't get your perspective" is also to me a scummy turn of phrase, like it's engaging with Koba to disagree but with an assumption that Koba is town and not disagreeing so much as to put her foot down on anything substantial.

if your default assumption is that scum would want to get townpoints by defending me, Meuh's noncomittal/passive version is a worse look than Roden's

I also think Gamma looks worse than Chaos of people on my wagon too

The "I don't get your perspective" thing and the general passive-aggressiveness of 537 is because I got a bit frustrated with Dk, for the E-1 stuff and what I believe to be overconfidence on their reads. Frustration also because I think if their read on Roden is genuine, it seems to be born out of that overconfidence combined with conf-bias

This is why I logged off and went to sleep soon after, I'd rather not spend my time being frustrated over a game of mafia

[Meuh]

meuh been cool during this l-1 thing.

VOTE: chaos
@dk feel free to use like arguments if u got something against this
@lion ur thing here boils down to "too scummy to be scum", which is not persuasive.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
VOTE: chaos
Better spot for my vote than still randomly on tictac

[ChaosOmega]

VOTE: Gamma

The L-1 vote with no conviction even though he's mentioned GL as a suspect reads bad, like he knows GL will flip town and is already trying to pivot. It coming right after GL's post that my vote is +town for bravery is a funny juxtaposition. Have to go, will be back on later tonight.

[DkKoba]

meuh been cool during this l-1 thing.

VOTE: chaos
@dk feel free to use like arguments if u got something against this
@lion ur thing here boils down to "too scummy to be scum", which is not persuasive.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
VOTE: chaos
Better spot for my vote than still randomly on tictac

Why do you agree with tictac?

[DkKoba]

Chaos often gets pushed in their towngames btw and i have often been one to have to defend them so heres my warning that i have not been pinged by chaos yet and am vetoing that push here

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm 100% confident Roden doesn't "swoop in" to defend me like that as scum, there wouldn't be a need to

actually why tho

because I'm town and at E-1, what on earth does scum Roden gain from pushing so hard against the wagon that he attracts attention/votes instead? I'm useful to keep around scum should want me gone

I get that it will look different to someone who doesn't know my alignment but I give exactly 0% chance Roden had any scum agenda to what he posted. The better question is why do you think it's a scum-indicative action?

I think it's scum indicative

how

he went about defending you. It felt like he had too much skin in the game there. The only feasible explanation I could see for town!Roden to have felt that way would be if he had a tangible townread on you before the E-1.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma

The L-1 vote with no conviction even though he's mentioned GL as a suspect reads bad, like he knows GL will flip town and is already trying to pivot. It coming right after GL's post that my vote is +town for bravery is a funny juxtaposition. Have to go, will be back on later tonight.

I only really voted there in order to progress the game, with the expectation being that I would cause some reactions from folks were weren't okay with a hammer happening. I do feel like GL's reaction is at least okay rn. Meuh I'm a little interested in her reaction but Roden's was definitely the one that pinged me immediately.

Also, I'll back the statement that Koba has a good read rate on chaos

[Roden]

Why is Roden more concerned with defending GL than finding scum

No that's just the only thing people want to respond to. I've made a case on you twice now, and it was ignored by you and everyone else both times.

[Not Known 15]

Koba, Gamma: Why did you move off GL and hopped on a Roden wagon? Yes, I know that you SR both.

[Roden]

VOTE: Gamma

The L-1 vote with no conviction even though he's mentioned GL as a suspect reads bad, like he knows GL will flip town and is already trying to pivot. It coming right after GL's post that my vote is +town for bravery is a funny juxtaposition. Have to go, will be back on later tonight.

I only really voted there in order to progress the game, with the expectation being that I would cause some reactions from folks were weren't okay with a hammer happening. I do feel like GL's reaction is at least okay rn. Meuh I'm a little interested in her reaction but Roden's was definitely the one that pinged me immediately.

Also, I'll back the statement that Koba has a good read rate on chaos

I town read you initially but the read is disintegrating before my eyes at this point.

You keep saying that I'm pinging you but you won't explain why. You keep accusing me of things, but when I press you to explain it turns out you don't have an actual answer or explanation. You're just saying things and hoping that you're blindly believed/that I won't push back in a logical way.

This is exactly why I brought up Open 835 earlier. Because at least when you were making a meta read there, even though you were completely wrong you still tried to explain how you came to your conclusion. We had a sizable back and forth but in the end, you eventually admitted you were wrong and backed off, and I was able to town read you for genuinely believing in your case against me.

None of that is happening here though. You're making meta accusations but you aren't trying to back up any of them. Tictac even just said your meta read of "Roden does argument tricks as scum" was incorrect and that it was more

your

meta, but you ignored that to repeat how much I'm pinging you.

You're not doing any real solving, and honestly your town meta of asking questions and diving into player motivations has been entirely absent.

VOTE: Gamma