KTaNE [game over!]

[catboi]

Assembling a readslist, reread tweet's iso, kind of underwhelming, need to remind myself how she plays day 1 as town

[GuiltyLion]

"you can't townread cephrir for being the only one to think about this because i did too. but i didn't really since it was a half baked idea"

plz tell me what is wrong with my characterization or what the town motivation is

Lol, Greeting can certainly townread you for it. Just wasn't your idea. Credit where it's due.

Maybe you came to the conclusion independently, idk. Just saying you definitely weren't the first person to bring it up. I think greeting is more town than you, so I'd prefer they have all the information when making their decision on reads. That's my motivation.

This is a perspective slip because of what's unsaid here.

from VPB!town's POV - he should be townreading cephrir for having the same thought process as he does - unless he wants to claim that Cephrir is just plagiarizing him 800 posts later or w/e but that's clearly not his intent as he didn't even state things in the way Cephrir did.

Instead he seems peeved that Cephrir is getting town-read for a post that he already made - the goal isn't actually because he thinks Cephrir is scum - he just wants his own town cred for "saying something similar" which is kind of ????

Like this game isn't about seeing who can score the most town!points for statements about game state - this game is about sorting between bad guys and good guys. VP's entire conversation with Cephrir isn't about sorting Cephrir - it's about saying oh it's unfair Ceph is getting credit for something that I already said sort of kind of - which is not a town mindset.

actually maybe I should pay more attention to those posts instead of skimming

gonna go back and reread this again and give my take on it

[Bell]

Based off of recent experience with MT, I’m simply of a mixed opinion. Some town pings, some scum pings.
Tone is right on. But not as persistent as I’d expect.
The number of votes on them though is weird. Though I get the vp-Luke thing is splitting the wagon. Second highest still weird.

[catboi]

Looking at some morning tweet town games, not sure if it's a case of large theme doldrums or what but definitely worried about her here. Would maybe actually awnt to try to discuss with her here but her easoning for all her votes feels very underdeveloped in a way that is uncharacteristic of her towngame. Would maybe want to talk to he but concern level yellow?

(ó﹏ò｡)

[GuiltyLion]

Instead he seems peeved that Cephrir is getting town-read for a post that he already made - the goal isn't actually because he thinks Cephrir is scum - he just wants his own town cred for "saying something similar" which is kind of ????

I see where you are coming from, my only issue is I could imagine it coming from town in his spot if his angle was more "Ceph should not be townread [because I do not townread Ceph]" rather than "I should be townread [because I said something Ceph said]"

you're kinda assuming the motivation is the latter, and it might well have been, but I don't think it could never be the former. You're right it's odd that he's taking this approach when he doesn't fully SR Ceph himself, but he also seems to be somewhat paranoid towards a lot of people overall, especially ones that don't townread him, and I could imagine it as a playstyle trait

[catboi]

Too lazy to cite any actual posts for this stuff, so you get what you get

I'm rereading CSF's ISO because she's one of the people I have the least confident opinion on. I'm not sure coming out of it that I have any firmer idea. There's some stuff I kind of like but nothing that would particularly blow me away if it came from scum.

Bell was mindmelding with me on Lukewarm and the tunneling there is very singularly town-him, not really much doubt there at all.

I don't have firsthand experience with dwlee-scum but I did mod a game they were scum in (albeit heavily unmotivated). I

think

their scumgame has some different characteristics they're not showing here and their dissatisfaction with the gamestate reads like a real feeling to me.

Menalque had good vibes early, in the recent PYP he came off glaringly fake but I knew his alignment that game so I may be overcompensating. I still feel all right there for now.

Some of Pooky's recent stuff is more closely in line with town-him for reasons I won't bother getting into.

Look back at GL and still feel like his posts are legitimately scumhunting, could frown at the lack of presence but I don't really think that's due to alignment.

My honest impression was that Praetorian's opening was a scumclaim coming from koba but I could be projecting my irritation at them immediately poking at me. Breezy display of not reading, bs claim, halfhearted reads, overly focused on defusal stuff. But possible I reacted a little strong. Malakittens hasn't really done anything to give me good feelings about the slot. Could still easily see it flipping town but no one else stands out as more suspicious right now,

Strange is a player I dont think I'm ever likely to confidently townread due to playstyle but of what she has posted I haven't really liked. I very much dislike how she's making a show of working on a list but hasn't produced anything tangible yet. I know as a player she tends to be elim bait so treading with caution I guess but yeah, not really feeling it from their posts so far.

Town reads (Strongest -> Weakest):

Andante, Greeting, Bell, Frogsterking, dwlee99

Town lean:

GuiltyLion, Pooky, Menalque, VP Baltar

Null:

Ceph, CSF, Enchant, Andresvmb, Titus, Morning Tweet

Scum reads:

fireisredsir, Malakittens, StrangeMatter

[catboi]

VOTE: fireisreadsir

I've seen basically nothing out of them that makes me change my mind on the slot

[GuiltyLion]

Not "x is town because y is town and townreads x". Forming associations like this Day 1 is a bad strategy as they are unsupported by any hard data as to whom is voting out whom and whom is nominating for bomb expert (which is equated to being a townread in this game). We'll get the hard data once Day 1 is over. Right now this is just constantly shifting and it's not uncommon for mafia to be distancing themselves from one another.

This is not how I formed my townreads, you are making an assumption or misunderstanding what I said

I expressed my townreads (without any reasoning) in 258, it was after I was away from the thread and came back in 833 that I healed them, but me healing them in 833 because they were consensus does not mean that I townread them because they are consensus

[Cephrir]

HEAL: bell because catboi said so. I'm no Bell Whisperer.

One thing I will give Praet is, if they were Koba, their scumreading me makes sense as I've been playing this game much like the one (scum)game they have seen from me. But, could just as easily be coming from them planning to mislim me for that very reason, I guess.

[GuiltyLion]

catboi I'd be interested in your Pooky read if you feel you can explain it later, I don't really scumread him but I'm surprised people started TRing him when he ramped up his VP push cause the VP push I think would be really easy for any capable scum to make and I don't think Pooky's argument is especially compelling under the surface

[GuiltyLion]

I like all of Bell's page 53 posting and I'm feeling a townread there now. He has the same sentiments I have about Baltar and I see the point catboi's making about the conviction in scum!luke

[fireisredsir]

lion and catboi, can you talk more about the menalque "good vibes"? is this something based on who they are as a player? cause i don't really feel good vibes and am wondering where they're coming from

[catboi]

catboi I'd be interested in your Pooky read if you feel you can explain it later, I don't really scumread him but I'm surprised people started TRing him when he ramped up his VP push cause the VP push I think would be really easy for any capable scum to make and I don't think Pooky's argument is especially compelling under the surface

It's not a particularly confident read, certainly not as much as some people are expressing, but I think him making that sort of specific semantics-based scumread on vp baltar is more likely to come from him as town.

[GuiltyLion]

Menalque used to care a lot about mafia and was very try hardy in a bunch of games we played together (I don't mean this in any negative sense at all btw, I can very much be a tryhard too)

but then I think after a year+ of playing super hard, a lot of really strong scum performances, he burned himself out, was getting really frustrated with games, hating playing mafia, and took a semi-retirement.

Since then he's clearly divested himself from trying so hard (as either alignment), which good for him, it's a game and fun should always be the goal, but at the same time my hunch is deep down he still holds a motivation to play well for his teammates at scum and at least turn in a respectable performance, which is kinda why he doesn't play much at all anymore.

so far the vibes I've picked up from him here are extremely laid back / not caring, which is kinda how I feel as well at the moment. I'm definitely projecting to some degree here but this PL has a lot of strong players and odds are most of them are town so I don't feel the urge as town to try really hard yet and put 100% of my energy into this game and I don't get the sense Menalque feels that either. I feel if he were scum he'd be doing a bit more and there'd be a small but detectable degree of frustration in him at a) rolling scum and b) having to try.

I could be wrong and he could be just yolo checking out as scum, but I feel a gut townread there until I see evidence to the contrary

[Andante]

like, if people have objections to my request just don't put me in a hood...

I would but a) I'd have to try without data and b) that leave you open to being the diffuser

I'm fine being diffuser lol

[Andante]

also, HAPPY SCUMDAY CATBOI!!!

[catboi]

nya

ฅ(⌯͒•ꈊ͒ू •⌯͒)

[Andante]

I like all of Bell's page 53 posting and I'm feeling a townread there now. He has the same sentiments I have about Baltar and I see the point catboi's making about the conviction in scum!luke

it took you till page 53 to tr bell?? I TRed bell long long ago lol

[Andante]

GL is feeling suspicious

[Titus]

Ok.

HURT: Adante

[Andante]

oh wait, why we hurting me?

[Andante]

I was half kidding on being diffuser

[Andante]

I need to be diffuser on even nights if I am one

[GuiltyLion]

The problem is that "not scummy/disingenuous" is not a high bar toclaer, and I haven't actually seen anything from them that is hitting me as overtly towny, which is a problem when their slot was starting off from a negative position in my eyes and other people are at least giving me some sense of towniness.

this is fair. I don't have a great reason to townread fire given anything they posted

I liked that they agreed with me on Morning Tweet but I guess I shouldn't really put a bunch of stock into that being town-indicative

[catboi]

With regard to menalque his preference is toward playing town, I got out of a scumgame recently where he was awkward as fuck, he seemed unbothered here early, good enough for a gut read. He doesn't have as much time for playing games these days so I don't think the lack of presence is particularly an alignment tell for him.