KTaNE [game over!]

[StrangeMatter]

Oh good that game where my reads were a disaster. I can't explain that at all to be for real with how to even explain it. Some games I just feel out of it and unable to get reads I want, and other games the opposite might happen where I can't even get many reads.

[StrangeMatter]

Oh good that game where my reads were a disaster. I can't explain that at all to be for real with how to even explain it. Some games I just feel out of it and unable to get reads I want, and other games the opposite might happen where there are times when I can read people.

EBWOP.

I need sleep its 2:00 AM here.

[Frogsterking]

HEAL: Enchant IDK I want Enchant in Plan B with me if CSF is okay with it. I trust them.

I want andres dead before fire because I think mech and nightplay are important to this setup and I think andres will provide that to scum team. I think fire + andres are lockscum.

I can easily see myself being overconfident about my ability to read Strange. And VP. Maybe Praet/Koba too IDK.

PEdit:

Yeah I feel that Strange about both the reads and the time it's 5:30 AM here. I'm kind of leaning toward you being town here now. I'm gonna crash G'night all.

[Datisi]

replacing Morning Tweet.

[Enchant]

HEAL: Enchant IDK I want Enchant in Plan B with me if CSF is okay with it. I trust them.

I want andres dead before fire because I think mech and nightplay are important to this setup and I think andres will provide that to scum team. I think fire + andres are lockscum.

I can easily see myself being overconfident about my ability to read Strange. And VP. Maybe Praet/Koba too IDK.

PEdit:

Yeah I feel that Strange about both the reads and the time it's 5:30 AM here. I'm kind of leaning toward you being town here now. I'm gonna crash G'night all.

I don't want in bombteam at first night.

Either this turns in bloodbath (and i am first on choping block), or i have better chances with lessened group.

[Frogsterking]

Yeah I'm fully expecting a bloodbath. Did you think andres was scum?

[Enchant]

Not sure.

[Menalque]

Sorry dats, got the poke,

could I get a standing weekend VLA pls

[Menalque]

Anything critical that I’ve missed?

[Greeting]

Not "x is town because y is town and townreads x". Forming associations like this Day 1 is a bad strategy as they are unsupported by any hard data as to whom is voting out whom and whom is nominating for bomb expert (which is equated to being a townread in this game). We'll get the hard data once Day 1 is over. Right now this is just constantly shifting and it's not uncommon for mafia to be distancing themselves from one another.

This is not how I formed my townreads, you are making an assumption or misunderstanding what I said

I expressed my townreads (without any reasoning) in 258, it was after I was away from the thread and came back in 833 that I healed them, but me healing them in 833 because they were consensus does not mean that I townread them because they are consensus

Yeah, I think I misunderstood.

UNVOTE: GuiltyLion

[Greeting]

I think I need to re-read the whole thread to find candidates to vote out because I'm kinda lost.

[Frogsterking]

Not sure exactly where I'm going with this but I think it's going places.

35 - Good early reaction by

catboi

. Also thought early thoughts on setup were sufficiently pro-Town.
71 - Logic here from

Lukewarm

is exactly the same as mine in the early going.

My initial interpretation of the setup, and how I felt Town should act, is for everyone to see. I initially weighed the alternative win condition as follows:
The Scum are more often than not going to send Town players to defuse bombs. Why? Because if one of their own is nominated to be an Expert, they can benefit tremendously from giving incorrect instructions and blowing that player up as a replacement for having no free Night Kill. Yes, they gain NK’s for defusing bombs, and can get closer to their own alternative win condition as well, but with players that are naturally skeptical, it is far more likely in my mind that Town players will choose to sabotage the process at night if they have a suspicion that the player that has been nominated to defuse is Scum, precisely because the Scum win much faster by defusing bombs. If we start executing Scum, do you really feel like they’ll start putting their own as potential Defusers, when they’re doing so much better by simply fooling the Town? At least in the early part of the game. Later, I can understand why there’s going to be a natural inclination to not want to defuse any bombs (purely as a conservative move to avoid giving the Scum the chance to send one of their own and win). And if they have a few of their own members as Experts, they can almost limit the risk that a player will individually pick to sabotage the process and blow them up. But think about it for the first few bombs. The Scum know the probability that they have full control of any one bomb is a near impossible occurrence, and losing members of their own Team so early is a very risky proposition. Do you really see them sending some of their own on the first few tries? I don’t. That drove my initial reaction. As advice for the first few nights, I stand by my conclusions.

85 -

Greeting

probably put too much effort trying to think of ways to break the game in favor of the Town to just be straight up Scum.
99 - This feels like too strong of a read too early for me. I have a hard time seeing how you can make any argument about

VPB’s

meta so quickly. I have not been liking

frogsterking’s

posting thus far.
113 - I don’t understand this at all, but just because I don’t agree, doesn’t make

Titus

Scum. I just wouldn’t trust them at all.
121 - I agree with the observation made by

GuiltyLion

here - the use of the word trash by

frogsterking

is too strong. I do have to say, I think my style clashes with

Frogsterking

, so I have to be careful about not falling for that trap.

[In general, I think those players arguing for just letting the bombs explode mindlessly in the early part of the game are suspicious. Not necessarily for the conclusion, but for the fact that they’re not thinking deeply about it and are looking for players to explode, which is more easily manipulated to favor the Scum.]

122 - Can’t disagree with

Menalque’s

vote here.
137 - I can’t say I agree with this set of reads, but it could just be because I’m viewing the game very differently from

Frogsterking.

148 - Interestingly enough, I really don’t like this response from

VPB

. What does it matter when was the last time you rolled Scum? Like why do you feel self-conscious enough that you decide to actively state when you last rolled Scum? It’s irrelevant to your chances of being Scum in this game. The reflex to answer in this way feels like a bad sign.
151 - This is the answer I expected initially.
169 - I like this read from

Frogsterking.

At this point, I think I judged the slot too early, because I very much vibe with their take on

VPB.

[I do not agree with the attacks by

The Bulge

and

Andante

on

catboi.

I’m starting to feel

catboi

is solidly Town.]

249 - I actually like the logic behind

Titus’

post here.
261 - A bit too tryhardy for Scum.
307 - This observation from

Dwlee99

I definitely agree with (about

Cephrir

).
327 - I do feel

DW

should be recognizing the obvious Town perspective from

Andante

though, even if they don’t think it’s their fault that a SR would tilt them.
330 -

Pooky

feels like they’re full of shit this game and wouldn’t trust them for anything.
367 - I don’t like how

Bell

is basically parroting

VPB

here. Too much suspicion onto

Cephrir

over not showing a lot of emotion about having rolled Town. Couldn’t the prevailing emotion just be relief? I don’t get it.

371 - I genuinely dislike this take from

Bell.

-first few pages had so much mech discussion zzzzz im gonna ignore that until later maybe
-

greeting

prob town for getting excited about a way to break the game that is obv wrong
-

vp

sounds normalish, idk bout the votes on him[
-

menalque

feels like 164 was posted out of feeling obligated to do so. but town can feel that too. it still gives me the hmmmms
- 256 could be scummy from

lion

. but i kinda feel good vibes from

prae's vp vote

right after, for some reason

lion and prae not connected. i noted the prae thing bc it made me a little more confident in the fact that i felt sus of the lion vote. it helped me see for myself that I wasn't just scumreading people who voted vp, there was something specific about the way lion talked about his vote that pinged me. ive liked lion's posting better since then, though

-

andante

is scummy as of 288
-

dwlee

is towny for noticing as of 293
- i read

pooky's

posts alternating between the voice of NBA analyst and anime girl and it's really throwing me off. need to find a new default

pooky

voice
- it's weird that

catboi TRs andante

strongly in 321 but idk if he's town with better reads than me or scum with tmi. either way

andante

might actually be town
- some people are really efforting it up and i bet they're not all town
-

lukewarm

being confused by

frog

in 397 kinda feels fake, but who isn't confused by

frog

sometimes
- ayyy

catboi's

secret read is

lukewarm

, i like this development. locktown
- 487 gutread

tweet

is scummy
- as of 546ish,

strangematter

feels... floaty? like she's not really engaged w/ the game just kinda existing and not poking out too much. potentially sus
- as of 561

frog

is kinda making me want to yeet him so I don't really blame

dwlee

that much. but i think

frog

is more likely town
- 595 hmm bad vibes here from

menalque

- gonna be honest i have never once looked through

andante's

big list to see what she updated whenever she ebwops it bc it is not clear at all what changed. sorry

andy

- ok one mech thing i don't think anyone has talked about is that don't we get very fuzzy alignment info from successful defuses based on how many nightkills the maf use? but they might not use them right away so it's extra fuzzy. maybe nobody talked about this bc they are hoping maf isn't thinking about this. but they def are so w/e

[Frogsterking]

I think I need to re-read the whole thread to find candidates to vote out because I'm kinda lost.

Yeah I had GuiltyLion in my initial scumread list but I think they were a red herring.

If you're looking for a place to start I'd appreciate a second opinion on my andres interrogation, he just dropped 40 posts a couple hours ago, he was previously a lurker slot at 6 posts.

[Frogsterking]

Anything critical that I’ve missed?

I'd appreciate a second opinion on the 40 posts andres just dropped

[Frogsterking]

GL is there any reason you can't townsend Menalque for me?

what does "townsend" mean? like prompt him to do towntell somehow?

or are you asking me to unheal him?

I might have the definition wrong but I think of it like making a case, but instead of a scum case it's a town case.

I wasn't really asking for like a full case though I just wanted something moderately solid to help me believe in Menalque town.

[Frogsterking]

UNVOTE: Andres

Fuck damnit

VOTE: VP Baltar

[catboi]

replacing Morning Tweet.

:<

[Andante]

VOTE: Mena

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I hope tweetie is alright :<

[Menalque]

Anything critical that I’ve missed?

I'd appreciate a second opinion on the 40 posts andres just dropped

sure, I can take a look

[Menalque]

Anything critical that I’ve missed?

I'd appreciate a second opinion on the 40 posts andres just dropped

I could vote him but it's not screaming scum at me

the progression on you around VP was unpersuasive to me and seemed too telegraphed as a shift

plus a bunch of the reads in the catchup wall being without commentary initially made it look like a busy-work sort of approach. especially disliked comments such as: "A bit too tryhardy for Scum."; "Pooky feels like they’re full of shit this game and wouldn’t trust them for anything"; "I genuinely dislike this take from Bell."

all of these things could have been v easily expanded on/dug into more in the catchup but instead he needed to be prodded for the extra info

[Menalque]

largely for postgame credit i'm gonna call ~1 scum in {frogster, VP, andante, bell} for this thing

[Menalque]

- 595 hmm bad vibes here from menalque

This is the only other spot where I was like 'huh?' on your analysis.

Why does that post give you bad vibes?

the way that it felt like it was gauging what the read was based on before publicly commenting to whether they would jump in on it or not seemed more scummy than solvy to me

the reason I wanted to hear what bell's "Luke scummy" reasoning involved was to see if it seemed plausible to me or not

I didn't want to pre-emptively give my reasons for being willing to get on board to avoid him having the opportunity to parrot them back to me

does this still seem more scummy than solvy to you and if so why?

[Bell]

largely for postgame credit i'm gonna call ~1 scum in {frogster, VP, andante, bell} for this thing

Witnessed and logged in the big book of i told you sos.

[Menalque]

largely for postgame credit i'm gonna call ~1 scum in {frogster, VP, andante, bell} for this thing

Witnessed and logged in the big book of i told you sos.

hey, I didn't say it was *you* for once