KTaNE [game over!]

[Bell]

MINE ALL MINE AHAHAHA

[Datisi]

vote count 1.13.5

• with
  19
  votes in play, it takes
  10
  to make a decision.
  
• day 1 ends in
  (expired on 2022-04-06 19:15:00)
  .
  
• 8
  players who have the most nominations at eod1 will be bomb experts on n1.

execution:

fireisredsir [7]:

Bell, Menalque, Malakittens, catboi, Dwlee99, Cat Scratch Fever, Frogsterking

Mistyx [4]:

Cephrir, fireisredsir, GuiltyLion, Titus

VP Baltar [1]:

PookyTheMagicalBear

GuiltyLion [1]:

Mistyx

StrangeMatter [1]:

VP Baltar

Frogsterking [1]:

StrangeMatter

catboi [1]:

Enchant

Menalque [1]:

Andante

not voting [2]:

Andresvmb, Greeting

bomb expert nominations:

Andante [13]:

Menalque, Malakittens, fireisredsir, Cephrir, Mistyx, GuiltyLion, VP Baltar, Cat Scratch Fever, StrangeMatter, Bell, Enchant, Titus, Andresvmb

Greeting [12]:

catboi, Cephrir, Mistyx, PookyTheMagicalBear, fireisredsir, GuiltyLion, Bell, VP Baltar, StrangeMatter, Enchant, Dwlee99, Andresvmb

Frogsterking [9]:

Titus, VP Baltar, Malakittens, PookyTheMagicalBear, Mistyx, Greeting, GuiltyLion, Enchant, Andresvmb, Bell

catboi [9]:

VP Baltar, PookyTheMagicalBear, Bell, fireisredsir, Cat Scratch Fever, Andante, Cephrir, Enchant, Andresvmb

PookyTheMagicalBear [7]:

Andante, Cephrir, Cat Scratch Fever, Frogsterking, fireisredsir, Enchant, Greeting

Cat Scratch Fever [6]:

PookyTheMagicalBear, GuiltyLion, Frogsterking, Cephrir, Enchant, Bell

Dwlee99 [5]:

VP Baltar, Titus, Cephrir, Enchant, Andresvmb

Cephrir [4]:

Titus, Enchant, Dwlee99, Andante

Malakittens [4]:

Enchant, Menalque, Frogsterking, PookyTheMagicalBear

StrangeMatter [4]:

Frogsterking, Greeting, Enchant, Andresvmb

Titus [4]:

Malakittens, PookyTheMagicalBear, Enchant, Andresvmb

Mistyx [3]:

Malakittens, Greeting, Enchant

GuiltyLion [3]:

Malakittens, Enchant, Bell

Menalque [3]:

GuiltyLion, Enchant, Bell

fireisredsir [2]:

Enchant, Andresvmb

Bell [2]:

Enchant, Cephrir

VP Baltar [2]:

Enchant, Dwlee99

Enchant [2]:

Dwlee99, Frogsterking

Andresvmb [1]:

Enchant

not nominating [0]:

mod notes:

• Menalque v/la weekends.
  
• the vote counter is acting weird and i'm counting votes by hand, let me know if i make any mistakes.

[Andante]

lmaoooo

[Cephrir]

there seems to be a common misconception that i'm some sort of good town player, mainly because people haven't seen it and assume im probably good

[Andante]

Ceph, I don't think you're maf yet... not trying to sway my SRs away from being correct... so in my books you're not a SR lol maybe later, but definitely not right now

[fireisredsir]

bell i was gonna come up with some hot takes for you but unfortunately i just don't really have any

i think things are generally moving in the right direction here with the obvious exception of people being on me

it would be pretty easy to lie and come up with some if I were maf but meh im not

i know you probably won't like this post either but i can't help you there

[Andante]

can someone point me to the fire!maf case?

[fireisredsir]

same

[Cephrir]

ok im selling myself a LITTLE short

im CAPABLE of doing this or this, but absent some sort of intentional artificial pressure, such as creating an alt on which i decide to try really hard in some predetermined way, sometimes this happens instead

[Bell]

there seems to be a common misconception that i'm some sort of good town player, mainly because people haven't seen it and assume im probably good

I don’t have this misconception. I played with town you in team mafia 2021. I just think something would have leaked out by now. But meh. You have some sort of barrier around you that makes me genuinely apathetic unless I’ll utterly convinced.

bell i was gonna come up with some hot takes for you but unfortunately i just don't really have any

i think things are generally moving in the right direction here with the obvious exception of people being on me

it would be pretty easy to lie and come up with some if I were maf but meh im not

i know you probably won't like this post either but i can't help you there

That’s cool. Just sit there until inspiration strikes you.
Or ask your scum partners for advice in the scum PT.

@1758: stahp blabbering. Only I’m allowed to do that.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Fire, can you post your stances real quick? I feel like your reads should have fluctuated since replace in. I don't need elaborations, just an idea of where you are.

---

Spoiler: unofficial expert nominations

Nominee	Healer
	catboi	Pooky	Frogster	fire	Andante	Mistyx	VP	Guilty	Enchant	Dwlee	Cephrir	Greeting	Andres	CSF	Menalque	Titus	Mala	Strange	Bell
Andante (13)				+		+	+	+	+		+		+	+	+	+	+	+	+
Greeting (12)	+	+		+		+	+	+	+	+	+		+					+	+
Frogster (10)		+				+	+	+	+			+	+			+	+		+
catboi (9)		+		+	+		+		+		+		+	+					+
Pooky (7)			+	+	+				+		+	+		+
CSF (6)		+	+					+	+		+								+
Dwlee (5)							+		+		+		+			+
Mala (4)		+	+						+						+
Cephrir (4)					+				+	+						+
Strange (4)			+						+			+	+
Titus (4)		+							+				+				+
Mistyx (3)									+			+					+
Guilty (3)									+								+		+
fire (2)									+				+
Bell (2)									+		+
Menalque (3)								+	+										+
VP (2)									+	+
Enchant (2)			+							+
Andres (1)									+

First thought is, lol Enchant are you really healing everyone or did I make a mistake?

Second thought is that I don't mind putting not-town reads in the second so long as they're active. So please, no Mala unless she can commit to posting in the hood. Maybe one of Menalque, Guilty, or Cephrir, since those are my nulltowns.

[Bell]

can someone point me to the fire!maf case?

They’re boring and Lukewarm ran through a mine field of meta scum tells. Before probably turning a shade of blue.
And xyz.

[fireisredsir]

Fire, can you post your stances real quick? I feel like your reads should have fluctuated since replace in. I don't need elaborations, just an idea of where you are.

i don't really think in readlist form so i don't think one of those would be very useful, but yea i can summarize some thoughts in a bit when i have time to write them out

[Frogsterking]

Hey guys I was just working on my readslist and I actually have some content about my interaction with andres last night that I was surprised because it doesn't read like bull shit. If I post it now before the readslist is finished will yall read it?

[Bell]

Sure whatever. I’ll read it. Reminder though that just because it sounds sensible doesn’t mean it’s right.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Fire, can you post your stances real quick? I feel like your reads should have fluctuated since replace in. I don't need elaborations, just an idea of where you are.

i don't really think in readlist form so i don't think one of those would be very useful, but yea i can summarize some thoughts in a bit when i have time to write them out

Just a list of people you think are scummy would suffice

[fireisredsir]

1) greeting and frog are prob town. both have kinda questionable takes, but they're still prob town

2) catboi is prob town but is scary so you never know. ceph feels towny to me but maybe he's just likeable

3) i think there's multiple scum in the people who are mostly missing: tweet and menalque i scumread off play. andres, malakittens, enchant slot are in that category too but i don't really scumread them off play. i don't townread them either tho, so eh

4) i think there's likely to be scum in people wanting to take advantage of frog and/or people coasting off a luke scumread. csf and bell both fit this category but in my heart i kinda townread both. my heart can be wrong and often is

5) dwlee is probably just scum here actually lol

6) strange could also easily be scum... but the whole readslist thing that people are pushing her over is kinda BS imo. the general positioning and floatiness is kinda scummy on its own but apparently she does that a lot

7) vp and andante... hm. with both i think i WANT to townread them. but do I? idk. slightly hesitant here, but sort of trusting for now. i do think that a scum might try to kind of get on my side here, if you will. MT kinda did that so maybe it's just her. buuut i think its something to watch out for. maybe lion fits in that category too? hmm I hadn't thought of that until now but... it's possible

8) pooky and titus both kinda fit the category of strong player who isn't doing much. lately, catboi is falling into that category too. i dunno what to make of that. with a p strong player list, my guess is that this would be more likely to come from town who isn't too worried about needing to be active yet. if they were maf i feel like they would feel some pressure to work their way into a town core here. so... i don't think i would say im townreading them, but im ok with assuming they're town for now and dealing with them later if im still here

i think that's everybody

[fireisredsir]

so 3 scum most likely in:
[tweet, menalque]
[dwlee, strange]
[andres, mala, enchant]

and then like maybe 1 of:
[csf, bell]
[vp, andante]

an 11 person poe woohooo that's so useful

[fireisredsir]

oops I forgot lion too, maybe throw him in the lower category

[Bell]

Thanks buddy.

I need someone to direct who the last two that should be healed are.
I think I’m most comfortable with Mena, GL, Baltar, being the last 2~3 on the list.

As I feel like I’ll just automatically murder the people at four votes right now if something goes wrong.

[Bell]

so 3 scum most likely in:
[tweet, menalque]
[dwlee, strange]
[andres, mala, enchant]

and then like maybe 1 of:
[csf, bell]
[vp, andante]

an 11 person poe woohooo that's so useful

Well, this is a very strange list indeed.

[fireisredsir]

bell who do you think is scummy besides me

and what makes my list strange?

[Frogsterking]

Andresvmb

-
Andres popping into the thread last night and producing a ton content only once I started raising a ruckus about his slot is incredibly suspicious and worth being a D1 elimination based off of that alone. It demonstrates an agenda of being present mainly to avoid death rather than to solve the game and it begs the question why he hasn't produced any other content this entire time.

The sheer magnitude of the content he produced demonstrates both a level of knowledge about the gamestate beyond a mere lurker, and that on a mechanical level he may be actively writing here a lot more than he appears. For example, do you remember in grad school that one time you worked on a draft for a research paper all semester and barely finished it, then next week you realized you had to write five more drafts at the same time about topics you knew nothing about and finish all of them by Friday? And you were just instantly were able to do that like yup here I am here's my papers? Yeah, I don't remember that.

That's the level of andres writing ability, grad school at the minimum if not higher, and that's the magnitude of the difference in content andres produced last night: he was at a postcount of

six

trivial posts before bothering to show up last night! Andres demonstrated an immense amount of motivation and capability to write about

this

game. That motivation and capability aren't magically created over night. Think about any town games you were playing where you fell behind and hadn't read most of the game and barely posted, do you remember how one night you just showed up with an obv town screaming at you and you instantly had the motivation and ability to write almost 40 posts with a detailed understanding of what's been happening in the thread?

Andres does have plausible deniability, he could have really planned to catch up last night and just so happened to have been studying the thread for a couple hours leading up to my accusations which is why he had all that content ready. My counterargument to this plausible deniability is that of course scum!andres is creating plausible deniability for himself. Where is the evidence he was actually in the thread studying it for hours the night I happened to draw negative attention to his slot? Why didn't he say that he was here and catching up? This is a game where players are instructed to lie and not get caught; what do you think it looks like andres is doing? The capacity to believe andres plausible deniability is pretty much the only reason I would accept fire killed today instead of andres, because I think if we're equally sure between andres and fire then andres would be the better kill to deprive the scum team access to andres ability to calculate ahead.

This is why I wanted to share my ideas now though because I think andres does have a good chance to flip scum and I think andres provides a lot of support to his scum teams in making optimal choices for night play. This seems like a priority given the theme of the setup. Also, while very few players are trusting fire at this point, I think andres may have the ability later to talk himself out of some eliminations, and if my read on andres is correct I may just be nightkilled and my read will be buried away by wifom logic, allowing andres to continue guiding the scum team through important mechanical decisions.

Finally and most importantly, I think the syntax of andres writing seemed strong and helped him to appear more townie, and some of his thoughts have effort which demonstrate a level of acting enough to make me second guess myself. I think this could be a sign I was wrong about him or it could just mean his writing abilities have become even better and his acting has improved as a result of rolling scum recently. However...

The content of his writing was less convincing, I felt like he was evading my questions sometimes and providing a lot of details about things I didn't ask about and other times barely answered the question at all. Sometimes I was watching his posts come into the thread and I felt like he was looping his thoughts between a few widely-held consensus angles he felt he could write a lot about rather than saying things he was thinking about the game. I definitely didn't get the impression he was attempting to read players in this game, I got the impression he was looking for reasons to read other players in this game.

UNVOTE: fire
VOTE: andres

Town isn't getting any value from this wagon on fire, we already know fire isn't long for this world and he's just dragging his toes posting wifom and flicking boogers at me when I try to solve. Fire will be here to kill if you decide andres is actually town, fire will be here to kill D2: fire isn't going anywhere or doing anything--the fire lim will happen--it doesn't have to happen RIGHT NOW.

I don't care what andres alignment is, if he's town he needs to get in here and post content regularly enough for us to see he's town. OBVIOUSLY he is capable of doing so and it's extremely scummy he does so cogently and only when under concerted pressure.

Put your votes on this guy and get him to post in here and stay in here and prove he's not just low effort scum skating through the game only willing to effort to save his own ass; because that's EXACTLY what this slot is doing.

[Bell]

bell who do you think is scummy besides me

and what makes my list strange?

Cephrir, dwlee, Mala.


It’s haphazard and the placement of two PoE lists is confusing for no discernible reason.

[fireisredsir]

andres posts that he's catching up: 1491
frog starts pressuring him: 1507

frog's entire premise is wrong

this will be the only engagement i have with this subject