KTaNE [game over!]

[fireisredsir]

wrt andres i feel like posts like 1543, 1559, and 1594 come off as more theory than solving in a way i think is scum indicative

his last two posts are pretty towny though

so i'd rather he follow up on his posts and go from there

why is it towny when andres shades frog and doesn't want to interact with him but it's scummy when i do it

is it cause im the leading wagon opposite yours

cuz andres was being forward about it instead of indirect

i was direct with frog earlier, and then i learned it's a waste of time. andres hadn't learned that yet

[Frogsterking]

1713 and 562 I call out Ceph

[Frogsterking]

Mist if you're catching up now can you give an opinion on Ceph's slot? I made a post about Ceph too this afternoon

ceph is town

Was that the one where they're town because they didn't try to pocket you?

[Bell]

@bell

- they're loosely grouped by how likely i think they're scum.

scummiest at the top

. the two separate poe chunks are a wider gap in likelihood. i feel like this should be pretty obvious???

- dwlee isn't in the top group cause my gutread isn't as strong as it is for the top two. their positioning looks pretty scummy tho so they get in the 2nd group.

- andres mala and enchant are all in the "they were pretty absent for a while or still are and haven't really done anything towny but also i don't specifically scumread their play" group. which one isn't like the others? they are in the same mental bucket for me

Scummiest usually aren't put at the top, nor do PoE lists usually involve segments of likelihood from top to bottom. Also, find it difficult to believe that you'd let Cephrir slip by with a near total absence of hunting, that they even admitted to. Even just basic ego protection should have had you put him in that list. Because later down the line, it would look really silly if you gave a player a pace for tone, when you've come off as fairly analytical so far.

This grouping only makes sense if you ignored or didn't try to get anything out of Andre's 40 posts.

[Bell]

I'm really putting myself in deep if I'm wrong on this guy btw.
I hope ya'll enjoy my humiliation when I'm inevitably wrong.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

yeah I was also wondering why fire hasn't said anything about andres

[Frogsterking]

I'm really putting myself in deep if I'm wrong on this guy btw.
I hope ya'll enjoy my humiliation when I'm inevitably wrong.

These are the kinds of posts which make me scum read Bell

[Bell]

I'm really putting myself in deep if I'm wrong on this guy btw.
I hope ya'll enjoy my humiliation when I'm inevitably wrong.

These are the kinds of posts which make me scum read Bell

I'll allow you your silly, silly thoughts.

[Mistyx]

i have no read on ceph

a couple things ping town but the fake openwolfing pushes that back to null

[Malakittens]

Kinda proddogging.

I’ll be posting Monday with content.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

@frogster- your problems with Bell could just be playstyle clash. I think Bell is p towny

I also didn't like Andres' catch up and could entertain a wagon there.

My initial impression of his catch up was a lot of trying to look town and show progression rather than actual solving. He's just posting about things that happened 50 pages ago. I understand he may have fallen behind, but that really shouldn't be town's priority

[fireisredsir]

Scummiest usually aren't put at the top, nor do PoE lists usually involve segments of likelihood from top to bottom. Also, find it difficult to believe that you'd let Cephrir slip by with a near total absence of hunting, that they even admitted to. Even just basic ego protection should have had you put him in that list. Because later down the line, it would look really silly if you gave a player a pace for tone, when you've come off as fairly analytical so far.

This grouping only makes sense if you ignored or didn't try to get anything out of Andre's 40 posts.

idk like i said my brain doesn't really work in readlists. I tried to be helpful and make one but ig I should have just stuck with writing out my thoughts and not tried to summarize them for people to nitpick where exactly i placed every name. it literally doesn't matter bc the next time one of those people posts, my opinion will probably shift. i still think it isn't that hard to see what i meant

ceph feels towny, idk what you want me to say. why does he get a callout over titus and pooky? also being in my poe for now does not mean i will ignore the players outside of it forever. my opinions change often

i read andres posts and i don't find them especially towny or scummy. i still fit him in that category because he hasn't really fully engaged with the contemporary state of the thread besides when he talked to frog. scum is very capable of posting long catchup notes and then not really engaging in real time, and i treat the people who do as essentially the same as people who are mostly absent. i mostly read people off their positioning and movement and the way they engage with people and the thread

[Bell]

Scummiest usually aren't put at the top, nor do PoE lists usually involve segments of likelihood from top to bottom. Also, find it difficult to believe that you'd let Cephrir slip by with a near total absence of hunting, that they even admitted to. Even just basic ego protection should have had you put him in that list. Because later down the line, it would look really silly if you gave a player a pace for tone, when you've come off as fairly analytical so far.

This grouping only makes sense if you ignored or didn't try to get anything out of Andre's 40 posts.

idk like i said my brain doesn't really work in readlists. I tried to be helpful and make one but ig I should have just stuck with writing out my thoughts and not tried to summarize them for people to nitpick where exactly i placed every name. it literally doesn't matter bc the next time one of those people posts, my opinion will probably shift. i still think it isn't that hard to see what i meant

ceph feels towny, idk what you want me to say. why does he get a callout over titus and pooky? also being in my poe for now does not mean i will ignore the players outside of it forever. my opinions change often

i read andres posts and i don't find them especially towny or scummy. i still fit him in that category because he hasn't really fully engaged with the contemporary state of the thread besides when he talked to frog. scum is very capable of posting long catchup notes and then not really engaging in real time, and i treat the people who do as essentially the same as people who are mostly absent. i mostly read people off their positioning and movement and the way they engage with people and the thread

Good question, they're missing from your PoE too.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

@frogster- your problems with Bell could just be playstyle clash. I think Bell is p towny

I also didn't like Andres' catch up and could entertain a wagon there.

My initial impression of his catch up was a lot of trying to look town and show progression rather than actual solving. He's just posting about things that happened 50 pages ago. I understand he may have fallen behind, but that really shouldn't be town's priority

Also, the one game I was in with Andres, I also remember him falling a bit behind there too, but he was able to summarize the important events in the thread and comment on them.

Whereas here, he presented a catch up on events so many pages back, and I don't think that's what he would focus on if he were town here.

[fireisredsir]

yeah I was also wondering why fire hasn't said anything about andres

didn't I? i thought I did. maybe I was distracted by frog

[fireisredsir]

oh i guess i didn't. i mostly agree with the points that you've made criticizing the posts.

i don't really have a personal read on him bc i find it hard to read people who have only posted in the way he has posted so far (I like seeing how people engage with the thread at the time things are happening not after the fact), but the fact that he has only posted in that way so far makes me kinda suspicious.

but the fact that i don't have, like, any gut feeling towards him makes me a little hesitant to put him in the scummiest tier of my scumreads bc he could just be town who hasn't gotten into the game yet.

does that make sense?

[fireisredsir]

Good question, they're missing from your PoE too.

do you want me to put the whole game in my list of where I think scum could be? that seems exceptionally useless. you have to draw a line somewhere

[fireisredsir]

previously i thought you were arguing in good faith but im kinda having a hard time seeing that here

[Frogsterking]

@frogster- your problems with Bell could just be playstyle clash. I think Bell is p towny

I also didn't like Andres' catch up and could entertain a wagon there.

My initial impression of his catch up was a lot of trying to look town and show progression rather than actual solving. He's just posting about things that happened 50 pages ago. I understand he may have fallen behind, but that really shouldn't be town's priority

Also, the one game I was in with Andres, I also remember him falling a bit behind there too, but he was able to summarize the important events in the thread and comment on them.

Whereas here, he presented a catch up on events so many pages back, and I don't think that's what he would focus on if he were town here.

This is the impression I have from reading some posts of scum!andres in a scum PT and town!andres in a game thread. Kind of behind and limited for time but helpful and someone you want to have on your team.

Scum!Andres in a game thread is like a Hannibal Lector-type living in our basement who we have to remember to feed from time to time.

This andres feels more like the latter so far.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

oh i guess i didn't. i mostly agree with the points that you've made criticizing the posts.

i don't really have a personal read on him bc i find it hard to read people who have only posted in the way he has posted so far (I like seeing how people engage with the thread at the time things are happening not after the fact), but the fact that he has only posted in that way so far makes me kinda suspicious.

but the fact that i don't have, like, any gut feeling towards him makes me a little hesitant to put him in the scummiest tier of my scumreads bc he could just be town who hasn't gotten into the game yet.

does that make sense?

that's probably fair. I also wondered if I should wait to see more from Andres

Something I've noted looking at your ISO, is that you doing a lot of waiting for things to happen (in particular, for certain people to return to the thread), which gives me the general impression that you're being reactive and not pushing very hard to refine reads. Idk could be a playstyle thing

Another example of being "reactive" is talking to frogster about 702, which you admitted you don't think is AI. If you don't think it's AI, why answer I felt that was overly accommodating

[Frogsterking]

CSF I'm pretty sure fire was lying about writing that beforehand.

[fireisredsir]

yea i think i am generally reactive on day 1. after we have some flips I like to go digging and ISO and see interactions and stuff, but early on i just want to engage with people and see how they interact and approach things. day 1 is mostly gut anyway and my gut is strongest when the posts are fresh. reading things back doesn't do a lot for my gut, although I've tried a few times

with frog tbh i was mostly just bored and willing to talk to someone. i also think he's town and i like trying to solve the game with my townreads, and i was mistakenly hoping we might actually get somewhere with that conversation. i thought he wanted to see how my opinions had evolved since that post, but idk what he was even doing. probably looking for associations or something

[fireisredsir]

that's the dumbest possible take lmao why on earth would i do that

i could just not say i wrote it beforehand and get towncred for having it be my present-time thoughts on the thread

[Frogsterking]

idk what he was even doing. probably looking for associations or something

Lol

[Cat Scratch Fever]

CSF I'm pretty sure fire was lying about writing that beforehand.

He posted it 12 mins after the mod announced he was replacing in tho