KTaNE [game over!]

[Andante]

I'm not saying town doesn't talk, but like this page for example, frogster has 6 posts (almost in a row) effectively saying nothing

[Andante]

^Ok, well that means page 81...

[Frogsterking]

Andante are you chainsawing me for andres lmao

[Andante]

what's chainsaw?

[Enchant]

what's chainsaw?

Weapon.

[Enchant]

Someone also thinks chainsaws are tools for choping wood, but it's not investigated.

[Andresvmb]

I wonder if the scum team are coaching each other a lot.
I didn't really expect Andresvmb to start aping my exact attitude toward being run up. Mostly because I feel we're very different people and he always seems serious minded under a thin veneer of humor. So hearing him make an argument like that unironically is...a revelation. In a sense.

I think you are all missing the point so hard about what I’ve written that I’m totally baffled.

I am level headed. I am not making a circular argument about why I’m Town. I just think you all aren’t reading closely enough. It doesn’t matter - I can take the heat. In fact, this might be the one time where I don’t actually care if I’m mis-executed only so that I can scream at Frog later from the Dead Thread about how terrible their accuracy is regarding my slot, and how they should refrain from ever trying again. And fundamentally, that’s the issue with players that play as if their reads are golden (with no humility), but constantly get things wrong. Like their takeaway from the last time we played together is that they should have been more insistent about the one read they had in the early game. But they were pushing a player that had come out and said that they weren’t going to post much in IV, who was trying to manipulate their meta to care less about games (and was my Partner). And when they claimed a role that wasn’t truly alignment indicative (IV), Frog switched their stance. In that game, I was agreeable towards them, and tried actively to pocket them. Why? Because they’re erratic and over time that just plays into Scum’s hands.

In any case, I think Frog deserves to be treated as Town (despite how obnoxious they’re being, and perhaps this is what they would do as both alignments, but I do think that they would be slightly more careful about being so over the top with their pronouncements of Scum).

At some point btw last time we played, I pushed for their execution because I felt that their eagerness to attack anything that moves, and being wrong repeatedly, made them hard to trust. I do think that as Scum, the way to play it is to just let them drive a few mis-executions, and then you push them. They’ve made it even easier by arguing that their accuracy has improved when even after my barrage of posts they think I’m lock Scum.

[fireisredsir]

Fire your votes and unvotes in the last like 10 hours are weird af. I do not follow your reasoning. You think me and csf are pumping up frogster? Like, what is the logic there?

yea they are idk man

i saw yours and CSF's case for andres and i thought it looked good, so i joined it, following logic over gut. then andres came back and his posts felt like how i felt with frog, and my gut came back strong and won out over the prior logic and i no longer liked the push on him

and now... i still prefer misty but im not super confident in it. i think that there is clearly something scummy in that situation where the andres push started. i think some people will prob think that it's me. i just hope that if they do flip me and find out that it wasn't me, they will look very closely at that. so i amend my earlier statement, there is something worth reading in that section

as for you and csf, yes i think one of you probably is pumping up frog. csf moreso but i was concerned about your lack of consideration for misty

[Menalque]

hey Andres, real quick q: did you see my post explaining why you're in my pool of people I'd be down to kill and if so did you respond? I skimmed ur iso just now real quick and couldn't find it

[Menalque]

Anything critical that I’ve missed?

I'd appreciate a second opinion on the 40 posts andres just dropped

I could vote him but it's not screaming scum at me

the progression on you around VP was unpersuasive to me and seemed too telegraphed as a shift

plus a bunch of the reads in the catchup wall being without commentary initially made it look like a busy-work sort of approach. especially disliked comments such as: "A bit too tryhardy for Scum."; "Pooky feels like they’re full of shit this game and wouldn’t trust them for anything"; "I genuinely dislike this take from Bell."

all of these things could have been v easily expanded on/dug into more in the catchup but instead he needed to be prodded for the extra info

this was it if you didn't see it

why was your catchup so barebones in details when you went to the effort of making a big catchup post altogether?

[Andresvmb]

I played a game recently in a different forum where after collecting multiple votes, I shrank and stopped posting. Fundamentally I’m just not all that eager to fight a crowd as Scum because it’s hard to fight when you’re feeling like others have you right and there’s very little you can say that’ll change the outcome. I have a hard time seeing how I’m ever going to convince Frog that I’m Town, to the point that I can already predict that the Scum WILL use that to their advantage. I’m that sure. And yet, I’m still here, and I will continue to try and contribute. And really, it’s only because I respect Datisi, and I don’t want to let them down. But I am going to warn you all - this approach form Frog is going to drive apathy through the roof. You can already see how multiple players have said that oh, so many posts, I don’t care to read them, even though I have actively responded to a lot of arguments and the more recent pages I think do tell the story about what alignment I am.

[Andresvmb]

hey Andres, real quick q: did you see my post explaining why you're in my pool of people I'd be down to kill and if so did you respond? I skimmed ur iso just now real quick and couldn't find it

Look Menalque there’s like 5 players that are making the same sort of argument about why I’m Scum. I don’t care to fight every damn case about my slot. I haven’t fully caught up, and I’m still reading, so if there’s something specific you want to ask while I’m here do it.

[Menalque]

so if there’s something specific you want to ask while I’m here do it.

it's almost as if

why was your catchup so barebones in details when you went to the effort of making a big catchup post altogether?

[Menalque]

also lowkey kind of a weird take when I'm not casing you or particularly pushing for you to die, and am actively inviting you to engage with me on why I'm getting your slot wrong if that's the case

[fireisredsir]

andres, ignoring frog for a moment, can you take a look at where the votes on you started piling up and see what you think of that section? starting somewhere around 1787 and ending around 1921? i know you responded to some of the posts made about you, but im wondering what you think of the alignments of those involved

[Andresvmb]

Anything critical that I’ve missed?

I'd appreciate a second opinion on the 40 posts andres just dropped

I could vote him but it's not screaming scum at me

the progression on you around VP was unpersuasive to me and seemed too telegraphed as a shift

plus a bunch of the reads in the catchup wall being without commentary initially made it look like a busy-work sort of approach. especially disliked comments such as: "A bit too tryhardy for Scum."; "Pooky feels like they’re full of shit this game and wouldn’t trust them for anything"; "I genuinely dislike this take from Bell."

all of these things could have been v easily expanded on/dug into more in the catchup but instead he needed to be prodded for the extra info

this was it if you didn't see it

why was your catchup so barebones in details when you went to the effort of making a big catchup post altogether?

What didn’t you like about me saying that Andante was being too try-hardy for Scum? They were actively engaging with Frog. Okay look maybe take it from this perspective. Whenever I read Frog, I start thinking that a hole in my head would feel better than what I feel when I’m processing their arguments. Andante trying so hard to engage them and their reasons felt Towny to me. I tried for like what 2 pages or something to engage with what they were saying against me, and I basically gave up. Either Andante is trying to pocket Frog (and really, do you think that’s the way to do it? By asking them questions? What CSF is doing of just agreeing with them is exactly the way to do it), or they’re just curious Town trying to advance the game.

[Andante]

hey Andres, real quick q: did you see my post explaining why you're in my pool of people I'd be down to kill and if so did you respond? I skimmed ur iso just now real quick and couldn't find it

Look Menalque there’s like 5 players that are making the same sort of argument about why I’m Scum. I don’t care to fight every damn case about my slot. I haven’t fully caught up, and I’m still reading, so if there’s something specific you want to ask while I’m here do it.

and what are the odds all 5 of them are scum... like, if you're town (idk my read on you yet) my guess is first SR was town, and scum went "oh yeah! easy push cause he doesn't talk!!"
I don't believe all 5 pushing you with the same reasoning are town... but that's just my two cents

[Andresvmb]

so if there’s something specific you want to ask while I’m here do it.

it's almost as if

why was your catchup so barebones in details when you went to the effort of making a big catchup post altogether?

Because the catch-up was incomplete. It’s not a catch up in the sense that it details my thinking exactly (which I tried to do by answer questions later), but more a list of notes around posts that triggered a reaction from me. What I will do it I can ever get through the entire game is to then weave the posts from say a few players that pinged me the most into some sort of narrative as to why they’re Scum. If the narrative makes sense, maybe I’m not that off and will feel better after being examined by other players for my views. And maybe, it’ll be shredded and I’ll realize I’m wrong.

But it’s not a catch up in the sense that I detailed this player is Town and this player is Scum and this is why. I think that’s obvious.

[Menalque]

It's not that I disliked it in and of itself -- it's that it was a very barebones and unconstructed thought which is exactly the sort of shit that I and other scum like to throw out

because it's the illusion of saying something while not actually backing it up with anything that can be (a) checked or (b) argued against really. the more fleshed out version is much more helpful.

my understanding of andante is that she's a tryhard most of the time, so it seemed off that you were suggesting the tryhardy-ness made her town.

also, just ignore frog if he's getting to you

could you try to go into some more depth on your thoughts re: pooky and that post by bell in the same way you just did on andante pls?

[Andresvmb]

hey Andres, real quick q: did you see my post explaining why you're in my pool of people I'd be down to kill and if so did you respond? I skimmed ur iso just now real quick and couldn't find it

Look Menalque there’s like 5 players that are making the same sort of argument about why I’m Scum. I don’t care to fight every damn case about my slot. I haven’t fully caught up, and I’m still reading, so if there’s something specific you want to ask while I’m here do it.

and what are the odds all 5 of them are scum... like, if you're town (idk my read on you yet) my guess is first SR was town, and scum went "oh yeah! easy push cause he doesn't talk!!"
I don't believe all 5 pushing you with the same reasoning are town... but that's just my two cents

Frog is way wrong, but probably Town. Scum sees that, and is ABSOLUTELY taking advantage of it. Loud players that are wrong and thing the right way to play is to yell their position repeatedly are a god-send for Scum. Someone in there is being lazy and thinks Frog’s reasoning is correct. Which do you even understand, btw?

[Andresvmb]

It's not that I disliked it in and of itself -- it's that it was a very barebones and unconstructed thought which is exactly the sort of shit that I and other scum like to throw out

because it's the illusion of saying something while not actually backing it up with anything that can be (a) checked or (b) argued against really. the more fleshed out version is much more helpful.

my understanding of andante is that she's a tryhard most of the time, so it seemed off that you were suggesting the tryhardy-ness made her town.

also, just ignore frog if he's getting to you

could you try to go into some more depth on your thoughts re: pooky and that post by bell in the same way you just did on andante pls?

I’m not you. I don’t care what you do as Scum. Have you seen me play Scum? Do I make unconstructed and partial arguments when I’m trying to avoid suspicion as that alignment? Like that’s relevant.

And you can say that you think it’s throwing random shit to try and appear to be contributing. But is that really what you believe? Have I not followed up on certain comments with specifically what drove my reaction? Is that not helpful?

[Enchant]

hey Andres, real quick q: did you see my post explaining why you're in my pool of people I'd be down to kill and if so did you respond? I skimmed ur iso just now real quick and couldn't find it

Look Menalque there’s like 5 players that are making the same sort of argument about why I’m Scum. I don’t care to fight every damn case about my slot. I haven’t fully caught up, and I’m still reading, so if there’s something specific you want to ask while I’m here do it.

and what are the odds all 5 of them are scum... like, if you're town (idk my read on you yet) my guess is first SR was town, and scum went "oh yeah! easy push cause he doesn't talk!!"
I don't believe all 5 pushing you with the same reasoning are town... but that's just my two cents

Do you try to dumbtell.

[Greeting]

I am doing what I said I would in 1660, which is why you may see a streak of ancient posts quoted.

Hey guys, I thought I was clever, but it looks like several other people realized defusing bombs is good for maf.

I came up with a name for the strat:

MAD

M

urder

A

ll

D

efusers

I'm also curious if this is a part of a twist associated with the story.

We don't know that DATS inc. is even a bomb defusing company at all. All we know is that DATS inc. has been infiltrated. It's possible defusing bombs isn't DATS inc. primary purpose, and the story revolves around a company whose primary purpose has been lost.

For example, maybe DATS inc. actually stands for:

Destroy All Traitors and Scum incorporated
or
Destroy All Traitorous Scum incorporated

PEDit: StrangeMatters is already out of their scum range by the way, slight townread on StrangeMatters from me.

I thought it's glaringly obvious that DATS inc. and GB inc. is a reference to the mod himself and GeorgeBailey, who is a backup mod.

Is there some kind of deeper story behind this? I don't know. I guess we will find out later in the game.

[Andresvmb]

And Frog isn’t “getting to me”. Frog is actively playing in a way that’ll make it harder for Town to win. Because not only are they wrong, they’re tunneled, and they can’t see it. And you know, it seems like they’re bitter about being mis-executed in a game I was Scum, and it’s filtering into how they’re approaching me here. You can see multiple references to the other time we played when they pushed me earlier. So it’s not entirely driven by my content in this game.

[Andante]

hey Andres, real quick q: did you see my post explaining why you're in my pool of people I'd be down to kill and if so did you respond? I skimmed ur iso just now real quick and couldn't find it

Look Menalque there’s like 5 players that are making the same sort of argument about why I’m Scum. I don’t care to fight every damn case about my slot. I haven’t fully caught up, and I’m still reading, so if there’s something specific you want to ask while I’m here do it.

and what are the odds all 5 of them are scum... like, if you're town (idk my read on you yet) my guess is first SR was town, and scum went "oh yeah! easy push cause he doesn't talk!!"
I don't believe all 5 pushing you with the same reasoning are town... but that's just my two cents

Frog is way wrong, but probably Town. Scum sees that, and is ABSOLUTELY taking advantage of it. Loud players that are wrong and thing the right way to play is to yell their position repeatedly are a god-send for Scum. Someone in there is being lazy and thinks Frog’s reasoning is correct. Which do you even understand, btw?

I mean, I think I asked for the case on you, got a bad answer, and went "mmmk whatever yall, don't have time for this" and walked away tbh
idk what my reads even are, I saw Mena posted actual content after my vote there, so I'm a tad sus of mena if I'm gonna be honest, and I think my reads are opposite of like everyone, so I'm just chilling