KTaNE [game over!]

[Datisi]

vote count 2.03

• with
  17
  votes in play, it takes
  9
  to make a decision.
  
• day 2 ends in
  (expired on 2022-04-14 21:30:00)
  .
  
• 3
  players who have the most nominations will be bomb experts on n2.

execution:

Frogsterking [6]:

Greeting, VP Baltar, Cephrir, StrangeMatter, Mistyx, Andante

Andresvmb [1]:

Frogsterking

not voting [10]:

GuiltyLion, Enchant, Dwlee99, Andresvmb, Cat Scratch Fever, Menalque, Titus, Malakittens, Bell, PookyTheMagicalBear

bomb expert nominations:

Bell [9]:

Andante, VP Baltar, Cephrir, Cat Scratch Fever, PookyTheMagicalBear, Mistyx, GuiltyLion, Enchant, Menalque

VP Baltar [7]:

Cephrir, Cat Scratch Fever, Andante, PookyTheMagicalBear, GuiltyLion, Enchant, Greeting

GuiltyLion [6]:

Andante, PookyTheMagicalBear, Cat Scratch Fever, VP Baltar, Enchant, Menalque

Enchant [5]:

VP Baltar, Andante, Cat Scratch Fever, GuiltyLion, Greeting

Dwlee99 [3]:

PookyTheMagicalBear, Cephrir, Enchant

Mistyx [1]:

Enchant

Titus [1]:

Enchant

Malakittens [1]:

Enchant

Strangematter [1]:

Enchant

not nominating [7]:

Frogsterking, Dwlee99, Andresvmb, Titus, Malakittens, StrangeMatter, Bell

ineligible to be nominated:

Andante, Greeting, Andresvmb, Frogsterking, Menalque, PookyTheMagicalBear, Cat Scratch Fever, Cephrir

mod notes:

• Menalque v/la weekends.
  
• the vote counter is acting weird and i'm counting votes by hand, let me know if i make any mistakes.

[Menalque]

7

hmm

[Greeting]

Greeting, why the townread on Enchant and also did catboi leave a full readslist for us?

I townread

Enchant

's predecessor, plus

Enchant

is acting absolutely no different to when he did in the games I've played with him earlier. He rolled town in all of them.

Yes,

Andante

posted it before, and I confirm that it's true.

[Menalque]

What did you think was town for Bulge?

And okay, I'll check her iso, thanks

[Andresvmb]

We still don’t know what resulted in there being no NK right?

I protected Pooky. I feel like I have to reveal this only because I think it makes them less likely to be Scum. If they have an ability though, then the shot went elsewhere and there’s no reason to rely on this information at all.

[Menalque]

Ok, Summarizing catboi's for yall here

Townreads, strongest to weakest: Andante, Andres, Greeting, Bell, VP Baltar, Menalque, GuiltyLion, Pooky, Enchant

Null Reads: Titus, Cephrir, CSF, Mistyx

Scum Reads: Frogsterking, dwlee, StrangeMatter, Malakittens

so with that, I'll

HEAL: Enchant
HEAL: GuiltyLion

just wanna have this in my iso so it's easier to find lol

[Andresvmb]

HEAL: Bell
HEAL: GuiltyLion
HEAL: Menalque

[Menalque]

My current reads (update):

town: Andante, Greeting, Andres, GL, Bell, CSF, Ceph, VP Baltar, enchant

null town: pooky
null for lack of engagement with them: Strange, mala, dwlee

good odds of scum: Titus

scum: misty, frog

***

pedit: appreciate the thought, Andres, but I was an expert last night and am therefore ineligible

[Andresvmb]

My current reads (update):

town: Andante, Greeting, Andres, GL, Bell, CSF, Ceph, VP Baltar, enchant

null town: pooky
null for lack of engagement with them: Strange, mala, dwlee

good odds of scum: Titus

scum: misty, frog

***

pedit: appreciate the thought, Andres, but I was an expert last night and am therefore ineligible

Oh yeah, well that just won’t count. I thought I had that right.

[Andresvmb]

I don't see a problem with their role claim.
For scum it's a relatively broken, bullshit ability.
For town, it's meh to all right. It has more flexibility and requires more imagination for town than scum.

Bell, they’re Scum. I don’t think you need to entertain this too hard. Frog claimed macho cop in the PT yesterday. There’s no reason to believe this claim is more serious than that. It’s a misdirection, and the amount of discussion around it is kind of funny, particularly since they’re definitely the execution. You have 3 hard votes in that direction that will always end up there and will scream for that execution every time. Clearly a lot of players don’t trust me, but surely you don’t think Andante, Greeting and I are all part of the Scum Team together. And if we were, then I never have to be swapped into that PT to make myself look even more suspicious. There’s just no need. catboi could have been blown up without any interference from a role or me. So it’s an obvious misdirection if you think about it for a minute.

I suggest you spend more time thinking about who could be Scum with Frog. catboi made the point that the Scum Team probably prepared for the eventuality that Frog would be flipped, and are probably distancing (and may not have even voted to Heal Frog). I would keep that in mind.

[Andresvmb]

I'm inclined to agree with whoever said that frog!scum is

probably

hard clearing for the rest of that hood, at least for a while, and frog!scum seems very likely -- my explanation for why he didn't just give wrong info is refuge in audacity I guess? maybe the original plan was for andres to take the fall for catboi dying, and then we'd flip him today, but andres towning it up in there meant that he had to rethink? idk, what was the timing on frogs behaviour @greeting, andres, andante

***

My current reads:

town: Andante, Greeting, Andres, GL, Bell, CSF, Ceph

null: VP Baltar

null for lack of engagement with them: Strange, Enchant, mala, dwlee

good odds of scum: Titus, pooky

scum: misty, frog

***

pedit: I know, Enchant, that was the reason for the what the fuck

I came into the thread with a post about how I was not about to engage in a back and forth with Frog, wasn’t in the right headspace for that kind of exchange, couldn’t explain my swap more than one conducted to benefit Scum, and that catboi was Town and needed to be saved. So I worked to ensure that we could follow the rules quickly and solve the bomb, and I expressed my frustration about being mis-executed in this game potentially since I literally never have been voted out outside of Endgame I believe ever in 25+ games here.

[Andresvmb]

Frog then came in and said that they believed my swap was clearly meant to drive us apart, and started attacking other players in the PT. I think it became obvious Frog was Scum once they started posting a POE with everyone’s name on it, started asking who their Partners would theoretically be (instead of trying to solve), among other troll posts.

[Andresvmb]

They also repeatedly tried to provoke catboi who had to keep telling Andante to stop paying any mind to Frog’s posts, and encouraged Greeting not to defend Frog (Greeting was giving Frog the benefit of the doubt until it was absolutely impossible to ignore just how anti-Town Frog’s behavior was).

[Andresvmb]

Hell, I even said I couldn’t believe Scum would be so over the top D1, which is why I gave them a pass, but clearly felt their interactions with me had been in bad faith.

[VP Baltar]

It's kind of wild to me that yall claimed in the bomb PT. If this was Frogster's idea, did someone second it? Anyone support that, and if so what was their reason?

[Titus]

I'll catch up this evening hopefully.

Would like a counter for VCA.

[Andresvmb]

It's kind of wild to me that yall claimed in the bomb PT. If this was Frogster's idea, did someone second it? Anyone support that, and if so what was their reason?

I was firmly against it.

The reason it happened was because Frog made a claim where their role wasn’t in their claim name. They claimed Dats Inc. Contingency Planner, but said the role meant they were a backup Cop. If you look at fire’s flip, you’ll notice that their actual role is in the name. So I and catboi both immediately argued that it was a slip. Greeting clarified that it couldn’t be, because they had something similar going on, and claimed.

[Andresvmb]

Andante claimed because their role related to one of the arguments I was having with them about how the swap could have taken place. I concluded that it had to have been the work of Scum, because I didn’t feel like a Town player would have swapped catboi out for anyone else (especially not me), and swapping the Defuser with no knowledge of who they were (for say, a random player) didn’t seem like the action of Town. You could argue I swapped myself out as Defuser (if you believe I’m Town), but I never pick catboi. Had I had the opportunity to do so but have to have picked a random player, I don’t think I would have done it, but regardless, I don’t have that ability. But that’s why.

[Andresvmb]

In conclusion, it happened organically, but Frog argued for it, and I countered that it was way too early in the game for that, and that it just wasn’t sensible or needed.

[Andresvmb]

Frog also began the discussion (before they were outted) about how VPB had to be Scum, and was sent to score another NK for the Scum Team.

Just timeline wise, Frog asked for claims trying to argue that they TR everyone first, and then after some roles were revealed organically, started attacking others (after being cornered by catboi and Andante). For what it’s worth.

[VP Baltar]

In conclusion, it happened organically, but Frog argued for it, and I countered that it was way too early in the game for that, and that it just wasn’t sensible or needed.

Ok, thank you for explaining how it happened at least.

[Andresvmb]

I also noted that I wouldn’t have needed to claim to get me through yesterday, and then make myself a target by swapping myself into the PT. As a strategic decision, attracting heat when I had weathered the storm yesterday and gotten a claim out (if I were Scum) didn’t seem sensible, but you all have to judge that.

[VP Baltar]

I also noted that I wouldn’t have needed to claim to get me through yesterday, and then make myself a target by swapping myself into the PT. As a strategic decision, attracting heat when I had weathered the storm yesterday and gotten a claim out (if I were Scum) didn’t seem sensible, but you all have to judge that.

Let's assume you are town, why do you think there was such a frenzy for the fire wagon yesterday as soon as your wagon took off a little bit?

[Andresvmb]

Andante tried repeatedly to pressure Frog to submit an answer so that catboi could be saved, arguing forcefully that the consensus was so strongly that catboi was Town that we had a duty to save them. Frog pushed that back by arguing that a consensus read didn’t have to be wrong, and they trusted themselves more (while making fun of Andante’s argument and accusing them of falling for a logical fallacy).

I’ll put it this way. Andante is never Scum. That’s a read I would absolutely bet the game on.

[Andresvmb]

I also noted that I wouldn’t have needed to claim to get me through yesterday, and then make myself a target by swapping myself into the PT. As a strategic decision, attracting heat when I had weathered the storm yesterday and gotten a claim out (if I were Scum) didn’t seem sensible, but you all have to judge that.

Let's assume you are town, why do you think there was such a frenzy for the fire wagon yesterday as soon as your wagon took off a little bit?

I am Town. I claimed Doctor and there was no NK yesterday. Do you think the Scum held back from firing? Has anyone stepped forward to explain in a different way why there was no extra kill? Like I really can’t make this easier for you.

Scum sometimes push alternative wagons, and after my claim (and some clear resistance from multiple players against executing me), they probably felt they needed to push elsewhere. Frog still tried to bury me by ridiculing my claim. But they couldn’t get traction so they pushed fire relying on a flawed argument from catboi who was clearly trying their best and had a reasonable argument.

Like you can’t fault me for thinking the arguments against fire were reasonable and not argue against all of the other players that also landed there. I’m not hiding and saying I don’t own my vote I do. But you asked me what I relied on for it and when I tell you you say it’s bullshit. Well, it is what it is.